Civ's for SW:GB 2?

[Teabag]

I think expanded universe civs would definitely work in this game. The people you describe sound to me like casual Star Wars fans and they probably wouldnt buy a hardcore Star Wars game like SWGB anyways. They would be content with the games that cash in on the hype like the games based on the actual movies like the Star Wars Episode 1 game. I pick Twi'lek and Trandoshans and such because that civ will be featured in the upcoming Star Wars Galaxies game which WILL be a phenominal hit and thus a lot of players will actuallyl become familiar with these lesser known EU civs. Plus a good deal of their structures and vehicles will be featured in that game so lucasarts would have a good deal of ideas to go off of if they were to make that civ.

The Ewoks as a civ would be entertaining but wouldn't make a lot of sense. I could just imagine a huge wooden AT-AT and then the look on the Ewoks face when it gets incenerated with 1 blaster shot...lol. They would have to give the Ewoks big dinosaur type units like the Gungans had. That would be cool and that would make mores sense. A huge beast with armor would be able to take more punishment than a big, clunky wooden contraption although that would be cool to see.

Twi'lek would be cool. I'm sure they would have lots of bizaar and colorful units. As far as SWGB 2 in 3d!!!...get real. A 3d rts game with 12 civs, all with their own units and structres with 200 units per side?? Maybe in the year 2050, but definitely not now! If we want all this stuff we are asking for then they WILL have to make the game 2d. We just gotta convince them to spend more time touching up the graphics and animation. Gary even said they weren't even pushing the genie engine so who knows what they can come up with if they really sit down and push the genie engine to its maximum.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I hope they do...

[Admiral Vostok]

Nope, I still think EU civs will be too much effort. Sure, some hard-core fans like you guys would love them, but other hard-core fans like me would hate them (as I believe EU pollutes the Star Wars Galaxy). And SWGB is not a game just for hard-core fans anyway. Lots of my friends who aren't Star Wars fans have seen my SWGB box lying around and said "oh cool, Jedis!" They want to play it because of stuff from the movies, not for other stuff.

 

And remember I'm talking PURE EU civs. Trandoshans and Twi-leks would be fine, because they are at least in the movies. And I might even be willing to allow such an important though purely EU civ like the Yuuzhan Vong to be allowed, but I think any more than one pure EU civ is not going to be a recipe for success for LucasArts. Other civs like Black Sun, Chiss etc that are not in the movies, that work similar to existing civs and that don't have a huge influence on the fate of the entire Galaxy should not be included. One EU civ, which I might add would only be included for the sake of hard-core fans, is more than enough.

 

The argument about the Command and Conquer games isn't really relevant because those things exist ONLY in the computer game medium. They are not based on movies, like Star Wars.

 

In summation, the only pure EU civ I would consider including is the Yuuzhan Vong, as they are an extremely influential civ in EU, and they would work totally differently to the existing civs.

[CorranSec]

Yuuzhan Vong- "Oh cool, evil alien dudes with funky technology!"

Chiss- "Oh cool, weird alien people with cool-looking ships! And blue skin!"

etc. etc.

 

If Yuuzhan Vong are included Imperial Remnant and New Republic have to be included. They should be included anyway, because they aren't "Pure EU" civs, or whatever you wish to call them.

 

It's not about "hardcore fans." It's about variety, and EU civs are necessary for this variety.

[Admiral Vostok]

If you want variety, Imperial Remnant and New Republic won't give you it. While they may be different to Empire/Rebels, there is still too much overlap to warrant an entire civ. I'm saying Yuuzhan Vong would be good for variety, but too many EU civs and you will alienate those not familiar with EU. Stick to the movies, there's more than enough quality stuff in them.

[pbguy1211]

Oh, the EU would work, don't get me wrong. It just won't sell so enough copies of the game, therefor it isn't worth the time and effort needed. Not enough people know the EU make it a sellable idea. But I'm sure they *could* make some really cool S.

[CorranSec]

Saying that the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant are like the Rebels and Empire is like saying that the Old Republic and the Confederacy are like the Rebels and Empire. There are huge differences between all of these civs, and LA would be sure to avoid any substantial overlaps.

They are neccesary because they are the primary civs for everything post-RoTJ. It is clear that we cannot remain trapped in the movie timeline forever, and that we must move onward to new and EU civs.

 

Vostok- if the movies have "more than enough stuff in them," then why is one of the current GB civs EU? And how can you say that when there are only two real "civs" shown in episodes IV, V and VI, and only five in episodes I and II?

This is a ridiculous assessment. The movies may be great, but they are simply not broad enough for a game. Gameplay>realism- there's no way you could have solely movie-based civs.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

What I mean is, it would be kinda stupid to have 2 civs with basically the same units. Uniform has changed, but not significantly, and TIE craft, A-Wings, etc, are still present.

 

I mean is like the Russians in RoN, which will start as a Viking-ish group and progress to what is now known as the Russian Federation. However both groups are called Russians.

 

So in some later Tech levels, the Empire's stormtroopers will upgrade to whatever the Remnant has, as will everything else they have.

[Arthur2]

EU civs would be cool

but then yeah, just for fun.....

i think LA can make EU civs in the new game but then don't try to balance them with other races...so it looks more...original

i can't stand the fact that all civs would have assault mec...

 

Ewoks...cool race to have...keep these races original

weak or strong will come from the judgement of players...

sometimes it's cool to have just-to-fun civs

[CorranSec]

Actually, units could be remarkably different. The EU books have a wealth of material which could be used as a basis to make civs. For example, the New Republic could have E-Wings and K-Wings as their fighters and bombers; Imperial Remnant could have Preybirds as their fighters, and Raptors as their bombers... or whatever works. Basically, with an expanded unit list, SW:GB 2 could have any kind of units, and if they're not there already, LA could make them up. They're rather good at that, as we have seen with the Wookie civ.

[Arthur2]

I think SWGB is pretty much made by Microsoft....

[lukeiamyourdad]

Corran is right. Even though the original aircrafts are still there, they don't need to use them. Look at AoK, they all look the same and the game still is fun.

[Sithmaster_821]

Too many civs spoil game. Here's why:

• The more civs you have the less variation there is. I doubt LA can make 18 different civs that play fundementaly different. StarCraft, AoM, and WarCraft have very different icvs, and they all limit the choices to under 10
  
• Lots of civs will fall to the wayside because it is impossible to make sure every civ is intresting and viable. In AoK about 1/2 of the offered civs were ever use and only about 1/4 were populard
  
• If they used unique unit sets, cna you imagine how much RAM would be needed to support 18 civs. You'd have to devote an entire computer to one game.
  

[lukeiamyourdad]

You're right but it would be fun to have 18 civs!

 

Anyway, I only expect a huge max of 12 civs more would be like AoK like you said.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

That's why I only said 12 civs.

[Sithmaster_821]

I think even 12 is pushing it. Maybe 10.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Well... If they sit down and really think about it, I think 12 MIGHT be possible.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Saying that the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant are like the Rebels and Empire is like saying that the Old Republic and the Confederacy are like the Rebels and Empire.

 

I don't understand how the Imperial fleet suddenly got so damn different by losing a Death star, Emperor, and lord (D. Vader). It's still the same ships. Yes, they may make some new ships like shielded TIE Bombers (Scimitars) and shielded fighters, but that'll be about where the similarities end: Their fighters gain shields and hyperdrives, and that's about all. Can't think of so many other different techs. Same with the NR. In most of those post Endor books, the Republic has new fighters but they still use X-Wings and A-Wings.

 

Quality over quantity. You don't need a ton of civs.

 

Ewoks have no mechs. And no, although they are proven to be good at improvising, they could never built something out of wood and stone that would be as powerful as an AT-AT, or a TIE fighter.

 

Mon Cals have starships, but no particular infantry/mech/navy units. Mon Cals were just part of the Alliance.

 

A lot of strategy games have only two civs. To name some: Red Alert (Europe/USA and the USSR), Ground Control (CC and OND), and X-Com 1-3 (Earth and the aliens). Yeah, many of them are outdated, but guess what? Most of them are extremely enjoyable today (I'm actually still playing X-Com 1 today -which was released as early as in the 80's). Age matters not, as Yoda would say.

 

My suggestion:

 

- Rebels

- Imperials

- Naboo

- Trade Federation

- Naboo -Personally, I don't like'em, but there is the law of popular demand.

- Pirate -Mix of various units, such as R-41 and Razor fighters, bounty-hunter like infantry. Dunno about mechs. A hutt "army" would never win against an Imperial army in an all-out war. I think throwing all these underworld people into one civ would be a good compromise.

 

A civ with 99% stuff made up just isn't fun. Ewoks have no mechs, only weak aircraft that wouldn't even cut it into the "Fighter" category of GB (you'd need something like 50:1 odds for a flight of paragliders armed with rocks to destroy even a flight of weak TIE fighters or Droid Fighters). Pirates are proven to be a threat both in real life and in Star Wars (particularly in the TIE Fighter game).

 

About everything the alliance has is canon. They actually had that Juggenaut thing (it's in the guide to vehicles).

 

3. Bespin Security (because they've got about as much canon stuff as the Naboo, though there is an argument that if they had a full army the empire wouldn't have been able to just walk in.)

 

You said it yourself: Security. Cloud City is an independent city, so they've got the right to build fighters and to maintain a security brigade, but mechs in those crowded streets? And why would they need artillery? Naboo is different as it is a whole planet and thus has a whole army. Bespin is just a platform/city, thus they won't need an enourmus army -and definetly not a navy !

 

Look at AoK, they all look the same and the game still is fun.

 

That's different, if you suggest everyone should have the exact same units. If you mean same name, GB is already like that. If you mean same units, well, Rebel Troopers and Stormtroopers are 100% different from each others, so are A- and X-Wings and TIE Advanced interceptors.

 

Yes indeed. And has anyone noticed that all of these games are outdated?

The wave of today (and the future) is for more civs. And, as they say, the more the merrier.

 

Red Alert (sadly ) is still alive; they just released Renegade. That, and Age of Mythology is going to have only 9 civs (actually, it's 3 categories each made up of nine "sub-civs"). Also, a lot of people wrote GB off because it had wookies and gungans in it. They just thought "LEC doesn't care about its fans and just throw in all these stupid civs just to make more money". It did not sell better, just worse. RA is a best-selling game and Red Alert 2 is still popular. Number of civs? 2. Europe/US and the Soviets.

 

The argument of many people is that the less variation, the more different civs I'll be able to play; the game will be easier to get used to. Still, most people -like me, end up sticking with only one or two civs anyway. AoK, though a great game, had too many civs.

 

Ewoks: As mentioned above, ewoks are ten centuries behind the rest of the world. Infantry isn't nearly as powerful with rocks, slings, and no armor (they won Endor because of knowledge of terrain, element of surprise, alliance with the rebels, and because they were practically invisible/camouflaged compared to the white-armored Stormies. Actually, many Imperials stated that the Empire would have won Endor if the stormtroopers had been wearing camouflaged armor suits).

 

They have no mechs, except rock-throwing catapults made out of wood. Any woodem, unarmored carts can't last for a second against laser fire: The heat from a single hit would most likely put it on fire and render it unoperative, to say the least, within minutes or seconds.

 

Yes, they have air units, but they'd need something like 50:1 odds to destroy something as weak as a Droid Starfighter.

 

Navy? Endor has no lakes and seas. Sure, they could improvise, but having no experience with water, it'd end up as rafts with catapults/bowmen on them -which just does not cut it against even the weakest frigate (I do believe rocks do not damage Durasteel hull plating ).

 

Turrets? For once, yep. Their turrets could be those logs attached to ropes.

 

Still, that's just 1/5: They have all five, but those 5 just do not cut it. Maybe the Ewoks would be a good medi-eval civ in AoK, but in SW they don't fit in.

 

Problem with adding New Republic and Remnants (sp.?): They have the same fighting styles. New Republic is still fighter-dominated like the Alliance, and the Neo-Imperials are still all warlords. It'll just be the same civ with different-looking units.

[Arthur2]

I agree with Sithmaster

 

basically all you need is the major civs...like rebel..empire, yada yada...

 

and then some races which are not so important, but just unique civs...like ewoks...(the way they live in the forest and u know....they are weak comparing to the empire, but then fun to play with)

[Admiral Vostok]

CorranSec, I'm still not convinced on the Remnant/New Republic idea. While they may be different in some ways to the Empire/Rebels, they still have the same POLITICAL ALLEGIANCE, which is what the civs are based around.

Both the Empire and Remnant consider the Emperor as their leader, and although he's dead for the Remnant they still worship him. This is different than the Old Republic where the troops fought for the protection of the Republic, and exactly who was Supreme Chancellor was irrelevant.

This argument is even stronger for the Rebels/New Republic, as both of their governing bodies are almost identical. It's still run by Mon Mothma, and they're still fighting for the same ideals, so they should be the same.

And lets not pretend the Confederacy and the Rebels have anything in common. "My enemy's enemy is my friend" does not apply here. The way I see it, the Rebels would be opposed to both the Empire and the Confederacy as galactic governments. I'll admit the Old Republic and the Empire have similarities, but the Confederacy and the Rebellion have got nothing.

 

I agree on all the points about the Ewoks, that's why I said that the game would have to work very differently for them to be included. Ewoks would have to get some bonuses like setting traps, moving stealthily through the forest and maybe even be able to take over mechs like those two Ewoks did with Chewie in the AT-ST. They would have no mechs, no sea combat and only hang-gliders for air, which would be far cheaper and crapper than fighters. They would be incredibly hard to play, I'd say, but as they wouldn't require much extra artwork (Ewoks would probably exist as a non-player civ) I think it could be fun to include them.

 

I also agree on the Bespin thing. Definitely no sea units if they were included.

[Teabag]

Dagobhan Eagle that is crazy! Why would you not want more civs? It adds so much variety and replayability to a game! Age of Mythology didnt limit themselves to 3 actual civs just because they thought more civs would be uneccessary...its because that's about all a 3d engine can handle...3-5 different looking civs! Red Alert is basically the same. There's only 2 caste civs becasue at the time it came out that was about all they could squeeze into the game! SWGB has a staggering amount of unit art compared to some RTS games which do like you say, make about 3 caste civs then make sub civs which really only have variations here and there in the pluses and minuses and a new name...maybe a different interface. I believe they can make up to 12 civs...why not..you're only going to see 8 at a time anyways in a game!

The Ewoks simply wont cut it. They are just too primitive to field an interplanetary military. The only way it could work is if Lucasarts presents us with an evolved Ewok civilization. Maybe Ewoks about 100 years after ROTJ. These Ewoks would have became partners with the rebellion and thus picked up on technology to make their own aircraft and vehicles...just a thought.

[Fishflesh]

Originally posted by Teabag

Dagobhan Eagle that is crazy! Why would you not want more civs? It adds so much variety and replayability to a game! Age of Mythology didnt limit themselves to 3 actual civs just because they thought more civs would be uneccessary...its because that's about all a 3d engine can handle...3-5 different looking civs! Red Alert is basically the same. There's only 2 caste civs becasue at the time it came out that was about all they could squeeze into the game! SWGB has a staggering amount of unit art compared to some RTS games which do like you say, make about 3 caste civs then make sub civs which really only have variations here and there in the pluses and minuses and a new name...maybe a different interface. I believe they can make up to 12 civs...why not..you're only going to see 8 at a time anyways in a game!

The Ewoks simply wont cut it. They are just too primitive to field an interplanetary military. The only way it could work is if Lucasarts presents us with an evolved Ewok civilization. Maybe Ewoks about 100 years after ROTJ. These Ewoks would have became partners with the rebellion and thus picked up on technology to make their own aircraft and vehicles...just a thought.

 

 

you don't make any sence

 

yust buy AOM and you wil SEE what a 3d engine can handle

 

Aom has 3 civs and in every civ there are 3 civs as wel

so it has 9 civs

 

(must at least have 800 mhz and good 3d card to see)

[Arthur2]

more civs is ok...

as long as they have enuff variations...

[Crazy_dog no.3]

The Gungans, until thier alliance with the Naboo, also didn't have any ability to wage an interplanetary war.

Ewoks could be balanced into the game. Who cares if catapults are sent on fire with one shot of a blaster? In AoK, a villager went down with like 3 stabs from some foot soldier. In real life, one sword can just chop the villie's head off with one cut.

 

In the movie, a stone thrown from even an Ewok would knock out a stormie. Enough rocks hurtled at an ATST would eventually crush the drivers inside (that guy was very lucky to even be alive in Dante's Peak).

[lukeiamyourdad]

Crazy dog is right. Maybe for the ewoks we could give them a numbers advantage. Maybe raising their population limit to three or four times the normal limit would give them as much strengh as any civs.