A Christian or a Hypocrite?

[Mandalorian54]

cjas you have a lot to learn about christianity, only a non christian could think of it that way.

 

unlike other religions you are not a christian for believing.

 

This is why people who believe because there parents are christians are not christians.

 

and people are not christians because they were baptized.

 

this is why christianity is not a religion but a faith. A relationship with GOD.

 

Catholics turn "Christianity" into a religion, with all there rules and there holy water they loose sight of GOD and get focused on doing whatever the priest says and there inscence and there confessions. None of that is in the Bible. well it's in the catholic Bible, because the Catholic Bible has two books added to it. And adding to the Bible is wrong.

 

but do you even care, or would you rather ignorantly believe what you want to? Or would you know the truth?

 

If you think of christians as whoever says there a christian than Maralin Mansin could be a christian. But he's not.

 

you say who am I to say who a christian is, I'm only saying what GOD said.

[Luc Solar]

I dont think that the Old Testament is horrible at all, have you ever read Psalms. Psalms contains some of the most beautify poetry ever written.

 

I give you this link:

 

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

 

Browse the site a bit and tell me the OT is not horrible. Sure, there are really nice things there too - things that make you wonder if God isn't a vengeful psycho after all. But some of the stuff is simply disgusting.

 

Catholics,and Jehovah witnesses are not christians even though they call themselves christians.

 

Well...this does not help much. A believer of which ever religion can say for example: "You all are worshipping a false god. My God is the only real God. No I don't have any proof but I *know* it is true so you have to believe me."

 

Saying that seems silly in the eyes of someone who simply doesn't believe in the "magic" you do.

 

...just as saying mister X is holy but Mister Y (The Pope) isn't like it's a fact. (Btw - what the hell does "holy" mean anyways?)

 

...like saying: "Duh. You guys are so dumb. Everyone knows elves don't exist! Santa does all the work by himself! And only He can make the reindeers fly!

 

There's some things all religions have in common:

 

None of them can prove $hit, yet they all are 100% sure that only they are right while everyone else is wrong.

 

Seems kinda silly to me.

 

Technically no one is innocent. We all deserve what we get, we are sinners, no one but Christ was perfect. Its only by Christ that we do not get the Wrath of God.

 

This is one thing I can't understand. This whole story about every new born child being a sinner 'cause..what - Adam bit the apple? God won't judge us by our actions? He thinks we are sinners and should burn in hell because of something that happened thousands of years ago...something that we can in no way correct anymore?

 

Btw - I do believe Jesus sinned while hanging on that cross. But I guess it was understandable; I would have been sorta upset too.

 

What about the whole basis of Christianity: God sacrificed Jesus. Because Jesus died, we are all forgiven.

 

If you think about that for a moment, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

 

WHY would he sacrifice his son? Couldn't he have forgiven mankind without doing that?

 

What good did it do? Did God think that he'll lay some sort of guilt trip on humans so that we'd behave?

 

What good did Jesus' death accomplish? He suffered and we got our sins forgiven, which God could have done anyways without horribly torturing his only son.

 

It all sounds great when a charismatic priest says it in a beautiful church with the choir singing in the backround, but... it makes no sense if you think about it.

 

To tough questions all religions have their patented answer, naturally: Who are we, puny humans, to criticize something all-powerful, all-knowing like God?

 

God knows best and if you don't "get it" you're just dumb.

 

Well, I for one have a problem with that.

 

Still.. I do consider myself a Christian. I'm living a good life and if I'll burn in hell, you can count on burning there with me.

[C'jais]

M54: You can spare me the religious lectures. The Muslim religion is just as wrong as you are. I'm wrong too, but less, since I can actually make consistent theories with real, empirical proof beind them. Of course, I might be utterly wrong, but in the meantime, I'll be less wrong than you.

 

Your definition of "Christianity" is hilarious to non-believers, and incredibly nonsensic. You're going up against the English language here, and you simply cannot win this one.

 

Luc Solar: You seem to have it all figured out. Can I ask you a question on this? Why are you religious at all?

[Reborn Outcast]

Wow I guess I got ot this thread a little late haha

 

Originally posted by Rogue_Ace

No one ever said that life as a Christian is a "bed of roses." But I would not have it any other way.

 

Ahh but it is a bed of roses... it's just that roses have thorns. Thats what makes the going tough. But once those thorns break off, it is even more than a bed of roses. It is something so beautiful it cannot be expressed in words.

 

I am a Christian, I go to a great youth group and here are my opinions on some of the things said...

 

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

This whole story about every new born child being a sinner 'cause..what - Adam bit the apple? God won't judge us by our actions?

 

 

 

Btw - I do believe Jesus sinned while hanging on that cross. But I guess it was understandable; I would have been sorta upset too.

 

What about the whole basis of Christianity: God sacrificed Jesus. Because Jesus died, we are all forgiven.

 

If you think about that for a moment, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

 

WHY would he sacrifice his son? Couldn't he have forgiven mankind without doing that?

 

OK where to start... God does not believe that newborn babys are sinners... I don't see where you are getting this assumption from. Only when they are old enough to understand that they are doing something wrong can they sin.

 

Why do you believe that Jesus sinned? Can you show me some evidence in the Bible that Jesus sinned while hanging on the cross... in fact he did the exact opposite. He prayed to God to forgive the people who were doing this. Here is the actual scripture...

From Luke 23:34 "Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

 

God sacrificed his son not because it would lay a guilt trip on people, but to show us that he really did care. He sacrificed the perfect being, all for humans who sinned thousands of times daily. He did this becaue it is the only way it would let us know that he really did care about us. To sacrifice ones son or daughter must be a terrible thing but God did it becuae he loved us, and Jesus did it becuase he loved us. He loves us more than anyone in the world could even come close to.

 

 

 

And Cjais I understnad where you're coming from but I just wanna say something. Like other people said, Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal, one-on-one relationship with God. Ohter religions might require someone to go to church a certain amount of times or pray for a certain amount of hours but God wants none of this. He only wants us to love, respect, serve and fear him. I do not fear God like I should. You don't have to go to church to be a Christian and thats what makes Christianity special. Going to church helps you become closer to God, meet other followers, and learn about Gods word. But if you truly believe that God is your personal savior and would do anything for you. If you believe that you are a sinner, are not worthy of being with God but will do anything to help become more worthy (committing your life to him) and ask him to come into your heart and make it your temple, then He will grow within you and take you on a journey of a lifetime that you will never forget, as long as you stay true to him. God does not care how long you pray for or how many times a week you go to church. If you can give 15 minutes out of your busy day to speak, one on one with him in real, personal prayer. If you can make that connection with God and serve him as best you can. If you can tell other people about His word and stay true to your committment, that is all He wants.

 

 

Sorry it was a little long.

[Luc Solar]

OK where to start... God does not believe that newborn babys are sinners

 

I'm not exactly sure which "sects" of christianity believe in this. But it is said however, that even newborns are "tainted". I do not know the right term for this in english, though... ( The Basic Sin? That's what it's called in Finnish)

 

Why are you religious at all?

 

Since I'm already late from work, I can't answer your question Cjais.

 

I'll try to figure that out at work. It's not like I'd be using my brain there anyways..

[FunClown]

When you walk around the streets you don't see anything religious. Go to Islamic or Hindu countries and you see the difference. There everything is controlled by religion: what you wear, where you can go and with whom, what you're allowed to do and when/with whom/where, what you can eat, what you can say etc. etc. etc.

...

Can christianity even be considered a religion anymore?

 

Are you saying that it is the clothes you wear and daily rituals you perform that make a relgion?

 

This is what Jesus critisized of the Pharisees. They dress up in their robes praying on the street corners proclaiming how much better they are to the others. However, the law was not created so that they may have pride]i].

 

Its all material. I even think a church is just a building with four walls and a roof. Its not the church or going to one that makes you Christian either. One of my friends was shocked when he saw what I was wearing to church. It really doesn't matter. You don't need money to buy good clothes to go to church or be Christian. It's not important.

 

Its your belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour who died on the cross for your sins that makes you Christian. None of that material stuff matters in my opinion.

 

Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.

 

Read Ephesians Chapter 2. Read the books of Timothy, read the New Testament. Now go and read the Catholic Catechism, do you notice the differences?

 

Bible: You are saved by faith alone not by good works. (read Ephesians 2)

Catechism: You are saved by good works and faith.

 

Bible: There is only one mediator between man and God. Jesus Christ.

Catechism: St Mary is the mediatrix.

 

I've been to both Protestant and Catholic churches. Catholic church they pray to Mary to save their souls then they pray to Jesus to save their souls. They also pray to a statue of Mary. Why don't they pray to a golden calf? Would that be idolism then?

 

They are a people torn between the Catholic church beliefs and the bible. That is my personal experience.

 

Catholic church also believes that the Pope is inerrical (can not be wrong). I believe that the world does orbit around the sun. Am I a heretic? The Popes been wrong many a time, yet it is still absolute truth? He prays to a statue of Mary each day. Is that Christian, does the bible say to do that? I am not silly. Why should I believe in Mary when the bible says Jesus. Why should I believe both? Which is Christian. The one who believes in Christ or Mary?

 

I have personal eperience over the course of a year weekly with the Roman Catholic church. I can't see how they believe what the bible says. The new testament does not supercede the old testament but fulfills it.

[FunClown]

Just some other stuff I'd like to add from what I've read on this thread.

 

Holy means Seperated.

 

CJAIS, Christians can use their definition of Christianity, you can use yours. Don't really care if you have ten different dictionaries. Means nothing to me.

 

To everyone,

 

I think when you start talking about 'I'm right your wrong' you should state precisely why. Like original sin. I'm right your wrong but I won't say why. Means nothing.

 

Your definition of "Christianity" is hilarious to non-believers, and incredibly nonsensic. You're going up against the English language here, and you simply cannot win this one.

 

Whats so funny? BTW, do I get something if I win this one. Didn't know prizes were being handed out??

[C'jais]

Christian people, listen up.

 

Christianity is a religion.

 

1. a)Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

b)A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

 

Your religion falls under them all. There is no doubt about it, but you can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize it's also a religion.

 

The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false). This could lead to some very messy situations if every Christian got that idea, since you're the largest religion in the western world. Christianity is a religion, similar to others.

 

I know why you like to state this, though. Every religion is scared at acknowledging other religions. They like to pretend they don't exist. They like to pretend that other people haven't gotten the same bright idea as them, and wrote down some perfectly clear dogmas.

 

If I should give a valid reason why I'm not religious, I'd say "Look at the world. Which religion is more right than others? They all look very good on paper, that's for sure, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of people getting into heaven for believing in just this religion."

 

Now, Christian:

 

n 1 A person who believes in the teachings of Christ or belongs to a Christian church.

 

adj 1 [no comp.] (Believing in or belonging to any of the branches of Christianity.)

 

No doubt here as well. Within the Christian church, there's a subdivision of protestantic and catholic Christians. You can call them bad Christians all you want, but they're still technically Christians. And please stop with the flamy stereotyping - I know for a fact that there are Catholic Christians visiting these forums, and this could well escalate into something unpleasant.

 

We need some clear-cut definitions folks. To a colorblind person, red might look like something else, but to those not seeing as him, red is objectively defined. And last time I checked Christianity still hasn't convinced over half the world to believe in what they do. Therefore, perverting the English language to suit your needs isn't a viable option for you. You cannot do this.

 

I think when you start talking about 'I'm right your wrong' you should state precisely why. Like original sin. I'm right your wrong but I won't say why. Means nothing.

 

This is an excellent idea. I propose you go right ahead and explain to us just why we should believe in your religion. Sure, it makes us feel good, and I can't really argue with the holy Bible, but if I were to look at it in a objective, rational way - why should I believe?

 

Whats so funny?

 

You're right. It's not funny. It's starting to get downright scary. I've read of several who would die for Christ, and happily take pain in his place. Yet they still insist they're different and better than the WTC suicide bombers. You're not. If your religion was on retreat, your country on the brink of devastation, I can assure you all that many Christians would without a second of doubt kill themselves in the name of Christ to save everything they believed. It's happened before, and it can damn well happen again. Your religion is no better than others when it comes to this.

[Rogue_Ace]

I've read of several who would die for Christ, and happily take pain in his place. Yet they still insist they're different and better than the WTC suicide bombers. You're not. If your religion was on retreat, your country on the brink of devastation, I can assure you all that many Christians would without a second of doubt kill themselves in the name of Christ to save everything they believed. It's happened before, and it can damn well happen again. Your religion is no better than others when it comes to this.

 

To what point would killing ourselves accomplish anything. Christians believe that sucide is a sin and is wrong in Gods eyes. Killing ourselves would solve noting. Our religion is much better than others when it comes to this.

 

Your religion falls under them all. There is no doubt about it, but you can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize it's also a religion.

 

Yes, Christianity falls under the dictionary definition of religion but to believes it is something more. But you are correct it fits under the definition of religion.

 

I'm not exactly sure which "sects" of christianity believe in this. But it is said however, that even newborns are "tainted". I do not know the right term for this in english, though... ( The Basic Sin? That's what it's called in Finnish)

 

Yes all are born into sin. Meaning that yes we are born impure. But until you reach the age that you realise the difference between right and wrong you will not be sent to hell. I think that was what Reborn Outcast was getting at. But yes because of the original sin in the garden of edan all babies are born impure.

 

Still.. I do consider myself a Christian. I'm living a good life and if I'll burn in hell, you can count on burning there with me.

 

I do want to warn you that according to the Bible you cannot get into heavan on works alone. Eternal life comes from a relationship with Christ and Christ alone. Not that works are a bad thing, they are centeral to any Christians walk, but they are not the source of salvation.

 

The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false).

 

Yes we do place Christianity above other religions because we believe that it is the only true one. We believe that the only way to heavan is through Christ not Budda, Mohammad or any other.

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ace

Yes all are born into sin. Meaning that yes we are born impure. But until you reach the age that you realise the difference between right and wrong you will not be sent to hell. I think that was what Reborn Outcast was getting at. But yes because of the original sin in the garden of edan all babies are born impure.

 

Yes that is what I was trying to say. God will not send someone to hell until they understand the difference between right and wrong.

 

Originally posted by Cjais

The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false). This could lead to some very messy situations if every Christian got that idea, since you're the largest religion in the western world. Christianity is a religion, similar to others.

 

I don't mean to sound ignorant or high and mighty (and I don't want to offend anyone) but it is above all other religions because it is the only one that leads to Heaven. All others do not.

 

Originally posted by Cjais

And last time I checked Christianity still hasn't convinced over half the world to believe in what they do.

 

And neither has any other religion last time I checked. But the people turning to the Christian faith are many.

[Mandalorian54]

wheather christianity is a religion or a faith then depends on each christian individually. there are many different kinds. So from that perspective, you have to be more exact. you cant just say christianity as a whole, you have to be more precise.

 

some forms of christianity are faiths some are religions. the religious ones are more often the hipocrytical ones.

 

Myself. I am a BAPTIST. a baptist christian goes by faith and not religiouse rules.

 

from the worlds aspect of what christianity is I'm almost ashamed to call myself one. I think I'll just call myself a follower of christ then.

 

And yes my GOD is real yours is not!

 

You know what christianity needs. PERSACUTION! where christians are persacuted and it is unpopular to be a christian, that is where you find the "real" christians.

 

like ancient roman times.

 

oooooooo our faith falls under some catagories as other religions. wopty frikin doo.

 

that doesnt make it a religion.

 

Christianity is above and beyond other religions, it's the only true one. Thats what we believe. You cant believe more than one, no one can, you would be contradicting yourself.

 

wheather babys go to hell or heaven I'm not sure, I think if a baby dies it goes to hell.

 

even if it's baptized, a little sprinkle or submersion doesnt change anything.

 

I've heard scripture to support and contradict this belief, it is hard to interperate the Bible sometimes. But I am more convinced of the scripture that contradicts it.

 

Was your dictionary written by a christian cjas?

 

holy doesnt mean separated, Is God separated? NO!

 

holy is like righteouse and all that is good and stuff. geeze.

 

Christianity, at least my christianity, is not about pleasing people, or making people feel comfortable, ooooo we don't want scare people away from our church oooo nooooo.

 

Its about TRUTH.

 

Buy dieing for our religion we're not talking about suicide, at least I'm not. I'm talking about roman days and nazzi and stuff, like when they say "if you deny GOD and say your not a chistian you will live if you still profess to this foolish religion we will throw you to the lions"

 

then I say "I am a christian" then they kill ya.

 

that's what I'm talking about not suicide. Man you just don't get it.

[meadfish]

WOW! This is my favorite subject!

 

Also being a former Youth Pastor, I would love to sit in a conference call with all of you to hear if the passion is in your voice as much as it is in your posts. Not a heated yelling match, that is where wars stem from, but a civilized sharing of opinions that hopefully would enlighten all of us to our diversity.

 

I stumbled on this post by accident and am short on time for now, but I will say this to hold you over.... get away from two words.... "christian" and "religion"

Yes, for this reason...they are a hinderance to the real issue. Salvation.

I was not raised in a christian or religious home, nor was I in any tragic circumstance, but one day I accepted that God was real. I did not name Him i.e. Ala, Buddha, Mohommed, etc, I just knew I had been created and the Creator was speaking to me deep inside. I listened. I cried. I still cry. I accepted that Jesus was real that day.

Perhaps not having all of the "religious" teachings in my upbringing helped me here. I did not have to struggle with making a decision of whether or not I believed. I just did. I could have been alone on an Island somewhere, and the creator would have still spoken to me.

I received salvation that day by admitting to God that I was a sinner, and asked Jesus to come into my heart. My life has had many ups and downs since that day (20+ years ago) but one thing that has never changed.....the Creator speaks to me, and I listen. I don't always like what He says, but I listen. We all listen. What actions we take after we listen is what defines our "religion". That is why there are so many different ones, we all take different actions.

I do not believe there is one sole correct version of religion, the closest I find in line with what I believe is Pentecostal.

I do believe however that there is one sole correct version of salvation.-----"I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me" - Jesus

 

When I have some time I have insight to the questions raised above which I would like to share. Until then, one other quote-

Above all, love eachother deeply, for love covers a multitude of sins"

[Jedi_Monk]

I'm a Catholic Christian.

 

We do not pray to statues, or paintings. We do pray (defined, "To make a fervent request or entreaty", "To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech") that Mary and the other members of the Communion of Saints pray for us to God, "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears turned to their prayer," (1Pet 3:12). And who is more righteous than those who have proceeded us into heaven? And on the cross, Jesus gave Mary to us as our mother, so we turn to her as a mother who loves us and who will go to bat for us with her Son.

 

We did not add two books to the Old Testament; the books you claim we added were included in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament translated from the Hebrew between 300 and 130 B.C. and used by the early Church; these books were removed (after the fall of Jerusalem) to foil the early Christians who used them as proof of life after death, specifically Macabees which says, "...for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death..." (2Mac, 12: 44)

 

We do believe in the Real Presence, as the Church has since 33A.D. Read the early Church documents, the Didache and the letters of the first several successors to Peter, read the Apology of St. Justin Martyr to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius from the second century. Read John 6, and the 1st Letter to the Corinthians, in which Paul says, "Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord... For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself." (1Cor, 11: 27, 29)

 

Christians have always gathered together, "They devoted themselves to the teachings of the Apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers." (Acts, 2:42). The Apostles were their authorities, and the Apostles ordained people to follow after them as Priests to continue to guide and "feed the flock" after their deaths. The Popes can be traced back, in an unbroken line, from John Paul II to Simon Peter. Yes, not every Pope may have been a good person, strictly speaking, but one of the disciples that Jesus himself chose betrayed him to his death! The wheat will grow along with the weeds until the harvest. And no Pope is infallible unless he is speaking ex cathedra.

 

We listen to the readings, from the Old Testament, the Psalms, the Epistles and the Gospels, and we recite the Nicene Creed (circa 325 A.D.); we baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, as Jesus instructed, and we believe that Jesus is God and died to save us from our sins.

 

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilatem was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

 

We are Christians.

[FunClown]

Mandalorian 54, you should move to Indonesia, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, China, and other Middle Eastern countires. Sounds like you really would love to live at those places.

 

Jedi Monk, if God chose the first Pope (St Peter) who was a married man, why is it forbidden for the Pope then to marry?

 

Also, I was speaking from experience, while I did not personally take part in praying before statues and such because I do not believe we are supposed to. From what was going on, it seemed to contradict the bible.

[Rogue_Ace]

We do not pray to statues, or paintings. We do pray (defined, "To make a fervent request or entreaty", "To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech") that Mary and the other members of the Communion of Saints pray for us to God, "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears turned to their prayer," (1Pet 3:12). And who is more righteous than those who have proceeded us into heaven? And on the cross, Jesus gave Mary to us as our mother, so we turn to her as a mother who loves us and who will go to bat for us with her Son.

 

I'm curious as to why we need Mary to go to her Son for us. Can she change his mind? That is honestly not said in a sarcastic tone. I'm actually curious as to why the Catholic church believes it is necessary or even possible to talk to Jesus through Mary. Why not just speak directly to Jesus the guy who gets you into heaven. Dont get me wrong Mary was a special person to say the least but she was just that, a person. No more perfect than you or I and definatly not Holy, she was just a human, sinful as you or I.

 

I'll write more later when I have time

 

BTW Holy- seperated or set-apart, in the sence that God is set apart from us in that he is perfect and w/o flaw, not seperated in the sence of not being able to effect the things in our life.

[Psydan]

OK, first off, I don't know what dictionary some people are using, but mine says

-Christian

adj.

1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.

3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

n.

1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus

 

I don't see "religion" in there anywhere.

"Religion" is following all of the rules and rituals. "Religion" is standing around the cross.(I'm not saying that all religions involve the cross, but making Christianity into a religion instead of a belief is just following the code)

 

Christianity is a Faith, a lifestyle, of following Christ because of what he sacrificed for us on the cross to allow us to be forgiven.Christianity is taking up your cross and following Jesus (Matthew 10:38)

Also, many people are Christians because of people doing what they are supposed to by witnessing, being missionaries, and sharing the Word of God, not because of their parents.

I also think that "interpreting" the Bible into your own version is wrong. God put what he put there for a reason. If he says "no sex outside of marriage" then that is what he means, not "unless your using protection" or "only if it's for fun" the Bible says"no", and making it say what you want it to is making your own faith, you could say that God says killing is good if you acted like that.

 

Also, by giving your life to Jesus we don't mean to give it in a suicide bombing, we mean that if you have to die in Christ's name, that you will do it, but not dying when it goes against God's laws of not killing (yourself and others included). A Christian should do all things to glorify God, and God won't reward you for going against his Word, no matter what your intentions are "Vengence will be mine, I will repay, sayeth the Lord" (Romans 12:19), he doesn't expect you to kill others in his name, and that is what seperates us from the Taliban, and other extremist groups.

Well anyway, thats my thoughts, and I wasn't really attacking anyone (or at least didn't mean to), I understand that we're all different, and that your opinion is as equal as mine, but I wish that you would listen to Christians, because my belief is that if you don't, that you are doomed to eternity in Hell, and I wouldn't want anyone to end up there because Heaven is so easy, and so much better than the alternative.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ace

To what point would killing ourselves accomplish anything. Christians believe that sucide is a sin and is wrong in Gods eyes. Killing ourselves would solve noting. Our religion is much better than others when it comes to this.

 

Not really. Did you know that Islam has much the same values as your Christianity? It may surprise you to find that they also do not like killing, and that suicide is also a sin in their eyes.

 

No big religion likes killing, because it's so obivious that it's not a good thing.

 

Christianity has commited genocide on a huge scale. Christians have killed innocent women and children in a grand display of religious affection. Islam has done the same. They're both equally bad.

 

But you are correct it fits under the definition of religion.

 

Thank you. You can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize that it's a religion.

 

M54, what exactly is the difference between a "religion" and a "faith"? If you like persecutions, go on and start to preach your god in Islamic countries. Die for your God like the missionary who was shot down there and be happy. I am on the verge of not taking your seriously at all.

 

Yes all are born into sin.

 

Until you can prove that to a completely objective bystander with no religious affiliations it is not fact.

 

We believe that the only way to heavan is through Christ not Budda, Mohammad or any other.

 

Watch where you're going. It's clear you do not know anything about Buddhism nor Islam.

 

I also think that "interpreting" the Bible into your own version is wrong. God put what he put there for a reason.

 

Can you prove that? No? Then you're free to interpret a piece of text the way you want to.

 

I don't see "religion" in there anywhere.

 

If you'd care to look, you'd see that religion is written two places there. Try running a search for "Christianity" and "religion" and you'll see some more.

 

but I wish that you would listen to Christians, because my belief is that if you don't, that you are doomed to eternity in Hell

 

Did you know that I am, in fact, God? I'm sure you'd like to see proof of that, which is why I've conveniently written on this piece of paper that "Cjais is God". Go on, believe such nonsense, you know you want to.

 

I've written here that anyone not following my standards, my universal codex of morality, my legions of believers shall forevermore be tormented and experience the infinite pain of a thousand hordes of grotesque demons in hell. Your skin shall be stripped off and serve as my coat. Your brain shall fry and your mind shall despair from looking at Me. You shall know true terror if you do not bow to my ever vigilant eye.

 

I'm sure you don't want that. I'm sure you'll all follow me, now since I've now shown you what happens if you defy my rule. See the faulty logic? I'm sure you do.

 

I'm glad a Catholic Christian took up the call and showed you Protestantic Christians that I wasn't wrong.

[obi]

Ah, the firm believe of Cjaisism

 

 

A couple of things I'd like to say to some folks:

 

1: If you are indeed Christian, do not tell someone blatantly that they are going to hell, and shal burn and get eaten by some sort of zombies, while getting tarred and feathered by angered colonists. That will not help them change their views at all.

 

2: Take into consideration what others say, and try to se it from their point of view before you flair off.

___________________

 

Ok, now that that is out of the way.....

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by Cjais

Watch where you're going. It's clear you do not know anything about Buddhism nor Islam.

 

Ah but I do.

 

Islam:

 

Founder: Muhammad (570?-632). About A.D. 610, in Mecca and Medina. Headquaters in Mecca, Suadi Arabia. Main sects: Sunni, Shi'ite.

 

Writings: Qur'an (Koran), scripture in Arabic. Hadith (Muhammad's words and deeds). Biblical Law of Moses, Psalms, and Gospel of Jese (the Injil) accepted by Qur'an, but considered by Muslims to be "corrupted".

 

God: God (Allah) is one. God revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. God is a severe judge (though sometimes merciful) and is not depicted as loving.

 

Jesus: Jesus was born of a virgin but is not the Son of God.

 

Other Beliefs: Followers are called Muslims. Go to the mosque for prayers, sermons and counsel. Holy efforts to spread Islam (jihad).

Five Pillars of Islam: Confess that Allah is the one true God and that Muhammad is his prophet. Pray five times daily facing Mecca. Give alms (money). Fast during the month of Ramadan. Make pilgrimage to Mecca (once in a lifetime).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As you can see Cjais, they think that Jesus is not the Son of God and that Muhammed was the divine prophet. They think the Bible is corrupted. They do not even see Allah (God) as loving. That is not the way to heaven.

Now...

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Buddihsm

 

Founder: Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama). Founded about 525 B.C. in India. Offshoot of Hinduism.

 

Writings: The Tripitaka (Three Baskets), which has more than 100 volumes.

 

God: Buddhism is mostly atheistic. Many Buddhists do not believe in God or a Supreme Being of any kind.

Others speak of the Buddha as a universal elightened consciousness or as a god.

 

Jesus: Jesus Christ is not part of this belief. Buddhists in the West generally view Jesus as an enlightened man.

 

Holy Spirit: Holy Spirit is not part of this belief.

 

Salvation: Goal of life is nirvana, to eliminate all desires or cravings, and in this way escape suffering. The Eightfold Path is a system to free Buddhists rom desiring anything.

 

Death: People do not have a soul or spirit. However, one's desires or feelings may be reincarnated into another person. No Heaven or hell.

 

Other Beliefs: Eightfold path recommends right knowledge, intentions, speech, conduct, livelihood, right effort, mindfulness, and meditation. Some Buddhist groups talk about an eternal Buddha (life force).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That is NOT the way to go to Heaven. They do not even believe in Jesus. Not even God.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

The majority are probably protestant converts, but there are many from non-Christian lifestyles who have decided to join the Church.

 

The fastest growing religion in the Western World is Buddhism. Not that it matters really...

 

Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

And if the passage of traditions from parent to child were outlawed, it would hardly be a free society.

 

We are not talking about traditions in general, we're talking about religious brainwash. If religion was outlawed, we would have a much more free society, after the adaption was completed.

 

Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

But the New Testament supercedes the old for Christians, which is why the Church is against the death penalty

 

The Church is against capital punishment because the Church has been beaten soundly for the last few centuaries. May I remind you of the Crusades and the Inquisition? Torture, murder, and genocide on a massive scale was glorified by the Church.

 

Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

I go to youth group after Mass

 

"I go to youth group youth anti sex league after Mass Two Minutes' Hate"

 

(Youth anti sex league and Two Minutes' Hate are Orwellian concepts used for the oppression of the population.)

 

Everything happens for a reason and although you may not see it now i'm sure that God will reveal it to you in the future.

 

Such a "master plan" would mean that humans have no free will. We have. Therefore there can be no "master plan".

 

I know that those words are not really that comforting but thats life

 

False. Stick to facts, they'll serve you better, unless you want to oppress somone.

 

I do not question my own faith

 

Yet you question your Presidente... What is the big difference.

 

I believe in Jesus, and stick w/the morals that are taught in the Bible.

 

Which morals? The Bible contradicts itself in multiple places. Do you just pick and choose? Or are you skitzo in order to go with all of it?

 

I prefer to let my actions speak louder than words when it comes to the 'preaching the gospel' part.

 

More power to that veiw.

[obi]

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

 

 

Which morals? The Bible contradicts itself in multiple places. Do you just pick and choose? Or are you skitzo in order to go with all of it?

 

 

 

 

Show me where it contridicts itself, and I will provide some sort of explanation.

[Reborn Outcast]

Yes please Shadow.. I would love to see what you find because there will be some sort of explanation.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.

 

The New&Old Testaments are horrible. They are barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The New&Old Testament are a symbol for the very opposite of sanity.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

The Old Testament symbolises the sort of religion that is the root of all evil.

 

Mind your wording. I'm not saying that you mean it that way, but Hitler said pretty much the same thing. Again, I'm not saying that you mean it that way (you probably don't given the rest of your post)...

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

* waiting for a bolt of lightning to strike me down *

 

Okay. Phew!

 

I have committed blasphemy on numerous occations, and I have yet to feel the gentle carress of a bolt of lightning striking my head on a sunny day...

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.

 

Keywords: "Highly religious communities".

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

"Only WE are righteous [...]

 

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27-28

 

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. Matt 5:13

 

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you. Matt 7:6

 

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matt 7:19

 

After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Matt 6:9-10 (own italisation)

 

(According to the American Standard Bible (you need to standardize the Bible? What does that say about its credibility?).)

 

You were saying?

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Hmmm.. enough about that.

 

I thought so...

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

The new Testament is a whole different story however.

 

See above.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

It's a great book with lots of info that is still useful.

 

So is Havamál. In fact perhaps even more so. What makes the Bible so special?

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

I just don't think that one should take it literally.

 

Well, gee... Why even take it seriously?

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

An example:

 

The bible says: No sex before marriage.

 

What *I* think the bible says here is this:

 

[...]

 

But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage period"

 

I think you overestemate Jesus. After all, he was just a common terrorist.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Times have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.).

 

But by interpreting the point you have actually changed it to: "You can have sex as long as it is safe and no-one gets hurt."

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

My god is not the god of Israel or the god of Christians. Simply the fact that we have so many religions in the world proves in a way the fact that none of us is right.

 

More power to that veiw. Nothing is right, only more or less wrong (and rationalism has a way of being very little wrong).

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

But what I do know is that no damn god takes every drop of community wine and changes it to the blood of a person who allegedly lived some 2000 years ago.

 

[...]

 

God must have better things to do.

 

LOL. If God is so omnipotent as the Bible states, then it must have had better things to do that creating man.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Perhaps God has given us guidelines, codes that we should strive to live by. But ATM a certain code is passé. It can not be taken literally anymore. That is my opinion.

 

Then why make the guideline a god-given law in the first place?

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Religion is the root of all evil in the hands of men. How many wars have we fought that would have been prevented if no religion existed? How much hate and suffering would disappear this day if suddenly the whole world would turn Buddhist?

 

Think about it.

 

More power to that veiw. But, while still harmless compaired to Judaism and its offshots, Buddhism actually has had wars of faith. Still, fair point.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by obi-wan13

Show me where it contridicts itself, and I will provide some sort of explanation.

 

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 

It's all there, and in plain english too (exept the Bible quotes which are in not-so-plain english).

[Reborn Outcast]

This is from that website:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

1:16 God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the

night." But if God made the moon to "rule the night", then why does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm sorry but that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. The sun does rule the daytime. The moon does not so it makes no sense to ask why it moves through the daytime sky... but once the sun goes down then the moon does rule the night. I'm sorry but that is just an example of a person trying very hard to prove that the Bible is wrong. Thats not facts or contradictions, its just someone trying to be smart.