Jared Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Dagobahn Eagle. Generally, people don't like being told that they are wrong, even if they know that they are. I, personally, think that your mother and brother need to get over it. They, and correct me if I am wrong, but they seem to be very racist. Now, thats just my opinion, but from what you have told us that is what it seems to be. I have a friend from mexico who thinks that all white people think they are better than him, and hates them(except me) because they hate when he talks spanish and they can't understand what he is saying, so it buggs them. Now he hates them because of that. And he thinks anyone who can speak spanish is some sort of god. Thats just the way some people are, and in my opinion, thats just wrong. And thats my 10 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I'm going to clarify it here just to make a point People have become overly concerned about offending people because you have been raised in a liberal society that emphesizes the differences between people (IE affirmitive action and hate crimes legislation) When we really get back to it... if your an black, african american person, how does it honestly offend you if they call you a niger (for emphesis) i am a white caucasian so i cant emphesize this enough but if somebody calls my "white trash" (for lack of a better "derogatory" term against white pople) i would be just fine with it, because I am what I am and I am cool with it this also applies to terms like fat skinny weak whatever, you should only be offended by that if you think it is not true. which a chineese person obviously cant argue that he is not chineese also... look at orientals... it is pretty easy to tell where in asia they are from. You must also look at the meaning of the moderen english language and not what you think the ideal english is. the term chineese has come to mean people from the orient, live with it. And I ask you the question again, why does it bother you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 TK-421, I think the main problem is they don't understand they are being racist. They, for example, don't think all Africans are stupid. I think it's ignorance from not spending enough time with other people (who are "different" from them, I mean). JEDI_MASTA, basically everything you said is wrong. People have become overly concerned about offending people because you have been raised in a liberal society that emphesizes the differences between people (IE affirmitive action and hate crimes legislation) Well, I'm raised in a socialist democratic country, emphasising equality and trying to fight the godforsaken racism. Personally, I don't think you can bring this, too, down to politics anyway. When we really get back to it... if your an black, african american person, how does it honestly offend you if they call you a n***** (for emphesis). I am a white caucasian so i cant emphesize this enough but if somebody calls my "white trash" (for lack of a better "derogatory" term against white pople) i would be just fine with it, because I am what I am and I am cool with it "N******" is an extremely mean and racist word. If you don't understand why, you're either really young (ie <11), you don't know any history (especially from the Apartheid/Civil rights period), or you're simply a racist (which I don't believe, though). "White" is a generalizing 'race' descrbing blondes and brown- haired people. "White trash", however, means you're ignorant. Are you ignorant? If so, don't "be cool with it", but try to study history, especially, in your case, US History. Take the word "Aryan". If someone described me as Aryan (a word I'm even feeling uncomfortable putting here), I'd be extremely offended because I knew the guy using it either was a Neo-Nazi (which I totally would H. A. T. E. you for), or an ignorant. Either way, I wouldn't want to be with that person. The same way, "n*****" is a word that's being used on dark people by racists. Thus, when you say n***** instead of something like black or dark, it tells whoever you tell that to that you're a racist, wheter you realize it or not. Also... look at orientals... it is pretty easy to tell where in Asia they are from. You must also look at the meaning of the moderen english language and not what you think the ideal english is. One friend of mine with Chinese parents (note that I said Chinese parents, which emphasises the fact that they perfectly well could be born outside of East Asia) is moderately tan, the other one is even paler than me (I'm European). So no, you're wrong. the term Chinese has come to mean people from the orient, live with it. This is where you're also wrong. It's part of life, sadly, but that so far from means it should be that way. Why are you so offended Because I'm not ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Dagobahn, I don't think people want to even consider the fact that they are being racist, they insist that they could never be a racist. Saying that all Blacks are dumb is just stupid. I mean come on. Every person is different in how smart or how stupid they are, its is that person's decision. Just because of the color of their skin or their language makes no difference. When I try to say this to my dad, who says Blacks are all dumb because they talk "funny" and because of the black rappers, the way they sound. And he says the blacks are the only people who cause riots. And he thinks if a person accused of a crime is black, then they must have done it because they are not smart at hiding what they do like the whites are. And my dad refuses to admit he is being racist. He looks at me like I am some sort of idiot and says since he is 50, and I am 16, that he somehow can't be wrong to someone my age because he is older. He is kinda off. I don't think people should just generalize a race because someone from a race acts a certain way, thats just ridiculus. Then my dad, to prove he isn't a racist, went out with a black woman for a few weeks. And he thinks that prooves that he isnt a racist, lol. I dunno what he is thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Alright, i just want to say really quickly that you can't be a racist without meaning to be. Either you hate/dislike people for their race or you don't. If you think that are "accidentally" being a racist, then they aren't racist, its just sounds like it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 Couldn't have said that better myself. First weeks at school, I stereotyped Asians as geniouses (don't remember if I had a reasoning for it, even). However, I stopped after, I think only a week and if someone had told me that I was wrong I certainly would not have insulted them for it. The really, really sad thing with racism like stereotypes of Asians is it makes sense to the peope who do it. New one from my Mom, defending Affirmative Action: You know, having to put your race on your application is great. Let's say you have a Hispanic kid. When he puts "hispanic" on his application they'll know that he has to be in ESOL [courses in US that teach English]. Then when I protest, she's all like "okay, a few of them might not be Mexicans, but just put them in ESOL, too, then if they turn out to know English you transfer them to a regular English class". Is she being racist? God, if I called her a racist because of that, she'd kill me. Yet, as pointed out, she's being an extreme racist: "When you meet an Asian, assume he's a Chinese math+chemistry whiz. When you meet a Hispanic, assume he is a Mexican immigrant who doesn't know English." . Then, on top of it, she gets mad at me when I point out that she's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 ok... lets get one thing strait... I AM AN ARYAN... does that offend you in any way shape or form, because it shouldnt, it dosent offend me I, unlike people that are offended when somebody says N**** am actually quite proud of my heritage. saying black or colored is simply somebodys way of making themselves feel good it all means the same thing, there is no fundamental english difference between the word N**** and black, nor should there be. THE WORD MEANS THE SAME THING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD it only offends people who are unproud of their haritage, and in my experience I have found that other words like that dont really offend people who are proud of their haritage (ie spic, chinc, skinny whatever) if you believe im a little kid, look at it this way, your politics (socialism) -everybody is equal and should be held up by the government because they are too weak to take care of themselves this seems incredibly naieve to me because 1, not all people are equal, sorry, they make that decision when they are verry young, and 2, not all people make the same contribution to the community, and they should not be treated as equals My politics (die hard conservative capitalist)- people can take care of themselves, dont do it for them, if I succeed in a capitalist economy good for me... if you dont... bad for you (and yes... i will talk politics with you all day and if it gets to capitalism vs socialism I will win...) why does calling somebody chineese a racist term... if i call you a chinc... you might have a right to be offended but not chineese, you would simply correct me unless you used it in a negative way. in which you would call foul and go cry to the government to make it all better. I would believe you were the one who is ignorant, because ignorant means unknowing. you cease to accept reality, instead of "growing up" and insulting me for being a "little kid" i belive it is you who has yet to see reality...i only hope you see it before you have brainwashed yourself into creating your own little utopia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 and by the way i just wanted to define racism so this isnt what we are debating racism is when you act on what you believe, there is nothing wrong with thinking you are better than a group of people (liberals feel that way about conservatives) but when you act on it... that is your downfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Regardless of what you might have been thought, saying "I AM AN ARYAN" 100% = saying "I AM A NAZI". There is a big difference between the dictionary definition (blonde) and the current definition ("superior blonde meant, according to nazis, to rule the world"). As you said: It's come to mean something different. Live with it. Look at my avatar: I'm of Norse origin; the people who were occupied by nazis and had all this crap happening to us (our casualties in US Scale would be 300 000 soldiers lost). Does it not occur to you that I might be a bit by you blatantly throwing that word in my face? And no thanks: It's not "what I am", because saying I'm an Aryan to 99% of people means that I'm a nazi. If, after 9/11, someone came over to you and said it was a great thing 9/11 happened, would that have been justified by him saying that "you shouldn't be offended: It's the way it is. Live with it." To put it short: You're descirbing a world that's 100% different from reality. Look, it's filled with phrases like "everyone shouldn't be offended by, not 'are not offended by'. Maybe you should reform instead of the millions in the USA who finds racist terms offensive? racism is when you act on what you believe, there is nothing wrong with thinking you are better than a group of people (liberals feel that way about conservatives) but when you act on it... that is your downfall To most everyone I know, stating you're an Aryan is a display of racism. Why don't you care about that? Maybe this thread should be closed before it deteriorates into a flame war? Because it looks like it's about to or has already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Regardless of what you might have been thought, saying "I AM AN ARYAN" 100% = saying "I AM A NAZI". what the.... Neither Hitler nor most people you know know what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Neither Hitler nor most people you know know what they're talking about. Look. I don't know about people in the USA, but in Europe, only neo-nazis use the word "Aryan". Thus, you declare yourself a nazi when using that word. In the USA, that might be different, but it's still not right of JM to be that disrespectful. And you're right, nazis don't have a clue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Well, originally, the term Aryans described the group of people supposed to have migrated to the Indian subcontinent during/after the times of the Indus Valley civilization. Hitler claimed/used a lot of stuff in different ways than it was meant to be, and morphed their meaning into something else in the minds of many people. Another example would be the symbol Swastik/a. Took it out of Indian religion/culture and made it his "logo." And today, the swastika is viewed as Hitler's symbol, Pro-Hitler, Pro-Nazi, and all that stuff, and no more as a Hindu religious symbol. So I guess it was his doing that these words/symbols have different meanings now in most peoples' minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 dago... u have just shown your true stupidity in the matter, my people saved iceland and tried to protect norway (US) i cant see your avatar,,, 2 damn small and, the aryans were a race of people who won a war in china long ago destroying one of the early civilizations there... they later migrated to what is now germany. If you didnt know what an aryan was you didnt need to go running your mouth about it, yes the germans believed aryans were superior, but saying i am an aryan is no different than me saying i am white. and by the way, all people of norse decent are also "aryan" blonde hair blue eyes... get the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Words and meanings change over the years, "Aryan" originally meant a certain group of people, but now after the Nazi's used it, the word got a certain connotation attached to it. Just like the word "Gay." Gay originally meant happy or jovial, but it has been used to also mean "Homosexual." The original intent and definition hasn't changed, but new meanings have been applied. The new meanings are what come to mind first. Just go to http://www.dictionary.com and look up both "gay" and "aryan" to see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Originally posted by JEDI_MASTA dago... u have just shown your true stupidity in the matter, If yeh can't debate without calling other people "stupid", then perhaps you should not debate at all. my people saved iceland and tried to protect norway (US) I certainly don't recall them trying to defend Norway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 (resized because it's so long:))Well, originally, the term Aryans described the group of people supposed to have migrated to the Indian subcontinent during/after the times of the Indus Valley civilization. Hitler claimed/used a lot of stuff in different ways than it was meant to be, and morphed their meaning into something else in the minds of many people. Another example would be the symbol Swastik/a. Took it out of Indian religion/culture and made it his "logo." And today, the swastika is viewed as Hitler's symbol, Pro-Hitler, Pro-Nazi, and all that stuff, and no more as a Hindu religious symbol. So I guess it was his doing that these words/symbols have different meanings now in most peoples' minds. You put it a lot better than me. It's all about culture, with a capital c. Yes, I know that "Aryan" means blonde, but as I said, it's about universally accepted among most cultures not to use the word because of it being used by the nazis. The swastika is more tough. Actually, the only reason why it's not banned in Norway is that the swastika, as I've been told, is still being used in a few places in the world as the symbol of the Sun. If I saw a person wearing the swastika in the states, I'd ask him/her about it before kicking his/her butt.. Oh, and the states never tried to protect Norway. They stayed neutral until most of Europe had fallen and then joined. I doubt they saved Iceland as it was never invaded in the first place, and if the Germans didn't invade them, that was certainly not the result of their fear of American retaliation. Don't get started thinking that I want to debate ethics here, as Norway attempted neutrality too. If you didnt know what an aryan was you didnt need to go running your mouth about it, yes the germans believed aryans were superior, but saying i am an aryan is no different than me saying i am white. I know that, Masta. But for the upteenth time, it means different things to different cultures. BTW, does anyone else than me smell a troll already? *smells pit under eagle-wing..* Nah, not me:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 ARYAN- a race of people Nazis- aryan supremesists is it that hard, i dont care what the "new meaning" is , i am talking about the race of people known as aryans, my grandpa fought in the battle of the bulge kicking german butt, and the states did help iceland because my other grandpa was there, so you mean if i wear a swastika you would kick my ass? why is it your choice to decide weather im allowed to be an aryan supremecist or not.............. btw, check the avatar and ull know how i feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 Originally posted by Rogue15 that's almost as bad as my mom and sister and aunt thinking that all californians are picky snobs...just cause of 2 people they know...that really pisses me off. o.O;; *runs* That's like saying a house cat and a lion are exactly the same thing because they are both "cats." They're different species. They're fundamentally different. Humans aren't. We can interbreed, we're the same species. (Interestingly enough, the last time I saw this topic was when...I "left" this forum. (which amounts mostly to not checking it every day. ) This was because I got in an argument with a certain person over whether or not segregation based on race was a good thing, and whether or not making assumptions about people because of their race was a good thing, and I didn't want to get in a flame war. Heh.) TK: Really now. That I did not know about... By the way JM, the Nazi symbol in your avatar makes you SO UBER COOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 1, 2003 Author Share Posted March 1, 2003 By the way JM, the Nazi symbol in your avatar makes you SO UBER COOL. Really. *hits 'report this post to a mod' button'* No, I'm not joking. Really, you went past a point here. Doesn't it say someplace in the community forum rules that racist views are forbidden? Besides, posting nazi symbols in your avatar just to prove a point is taking a debate out of its boundaries. I'm not a mod, so I'll leave it up to the mods to decide what to do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 hey, Jedi_Masta...one thing Hitler did to the swastika, was turn it up on it's edge....the original symbol stool flat on one of its sides see THIS if you don't believe me....so, basically, your av is a Nazi flag/symbol and nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 *stares* dude......that.....ah whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Wow... when I saw some of the other threads in this section I thought... "wow, there are some pretty smart people in these forums and you can actually have a reasonable debate here" Well, this thread shot to $h!t that idea... Jedi Masta... you have some issues, not to mention some really warped sense of reality and a false sense of history. i find it disheartening to think that someone with your mindset and points of view lives in the same country that i do. not to mention the fact that i dont think you'd have the balls to say anything you say here to someone face. hell, i'm not jewish but the swastika offends me on a general level of humanity. i really can't even find the words to argue with you... and if i could muster them right now, you wouldnt hear them anyway so it'd be fairly pointless. so i have no intention to try... this is my last post in this thread... period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 2, 2003 Author Share Posted March 2, 2003 btw, check the avatar and ull know how i feel Isn't this an admission he's a nazi/troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle Isn't this an admission he's a nazi/troll? The same sign that adorns gift wrapping in some countries is considered "bad" in others. It may mean a different thing to him than what it means to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Come on now, Jedi masta. What are you trying to prove? btw the swastica is sickening, please get rid of it. The mass murder of jews is not something that I like to think about:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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