JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I did use this avatar to prove a point, but I am becoming quite fond of it I am all for perfect equality, which would require people to forget about the race barriers and to have threads like these disappear because they only point out the differences in people. You can't make me take it off for the simple fact that It is immoral to discriminate against people on the basis of their beliefs and I have the right to say what I think, Unlike most germans who left the swastika and denounced nazi ism after the war and said they werent nazis, they were nazis. in fact the actual religion of judaeism implies racism because they believe people of their background are gods chosen people, and it is allmost impossible to join the jewish faith because you must have their background. They have crossed the line of being proud of their haritage and crossed the line to the point that they believed they were superior. The nazis simply had the insight to see that it is impossible to unite europe without conquest, persecuting the jews was on their level because if the jews can condemn you to eternal damnation because your not jewish, I should be able to kill them here because it is impossible for me to make it through their faith. Nazi germany was not a good thing, but as long as somebody can stand up and say I AM JEWISH or I am a Dutch person (ackbar) I should be able to stand up for my background, which is that of the aryan race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Why hasn't this idiot been banned yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 BTW guys if you are going to ban me I dont want any trouble, I will take it off, BUT before you do read my post above, if you ban me for excersizing my freedom of speach then I suggest you ban dago also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Jedi Masta, I'd like to say that although I agree with your freedom of speech, being of Jewish descent (although non-practicing) and having ALL of my paternal grandfather's family dead with the exception of my grandfather I find the swastika extremely offensive. Please remove it b/c I'm sure it's offending a lot of ppl and not just myself. in fact the actual religion of judaeism implies racism because they believe people of their background are gods chosen people, and it is allmost impossible to join the jewish faith because you must have their background. That is not true... one of my friends was brought up Jewish, but for several reasons decided to abhor religion for the past few years, recently however she has decided to become Jewish, although out of circumstance she is unable to pray or attend synagogue. Although she may not be of Jewish descent, in her heart she is Jewish and she believes in it, and as she told me, "When I leave my room why do I kiss the mezuzah? Not b/c I can actually feel god, but b/c of what it means." Unfortunately Jedi, you are not 'religious' b/c you had a bah mitzvah or a baptismal, but b/c of what you do to show you *believe* in that religion... if a man is cheating on his wife, or a man is faithful to the girlfriend he's had for the last 10 years but doesn't want to get married (reason is not important) then who is really 'married'? They have crossed the line of being proud of their haritage and crossed the line to the point that they believed they were superior. The nazis simply had the insight to see that it is impossible to unite europe without conquest, persecuting the jews was on their level because if the jews can condemn you to eternal damnation because your not jewish, I should be able to kill them here because it is impossible for me to make it through their faith. If the Jews said they were superior b/c they are gods chosen people, then the Nazis said they were superior because of Eugenics - The psedoscience where human physical structure is analyzed to determine who is the strongest. As for uniting Europe... they wanted to conquer it (which would be the infinitize of the word conquest), why don't we see what happened to Rome? And BTW, Jews CANNOT condemn you to eternal damnation, it's technically impossible, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN IT!!! If *you* believe in hell, then you can condemn *yourself* to eternal damnation, but the Jews do not even believe in hell. They believe that Earth is hell and we should strive to improve our lives on Earth as much as possible without even thinking of the afterlife. I should be able to kill them here because it is impossible for me to make it through their faith This deserves it's own section... 1)See above for how it is possible for you to make it through their faith (and what does that mean anyways? To become Jewish?) 2)So because you cannot be something then you must kill them? So I am a caucasian agnostic Canadian male, then I suppose I could start by being mysogynist, then killing all those who are pious, then kill are those who are not Canadian nor white... Also, you should realize that the Aryan race (forgive me I forgot the details) was actually a black race that existed, I think, in southern asia (modern India, Pakistan) around 1000-1200 (I admit here I'm not sure tho) The nazis were a political party (who actually won a democratic election) that believed in fascism, the philosophy of being the strongest. Also, I know you guys haven't been on this topic for a while and I don't mean to revive a dead wampa, but I had to say something to Dagobhan... you're right. I was taking a sushi course at a local grocery store, and there was this guy to my left who appeared Korean but I'm the type who will never assume a country of origin. While we're listening to the chef, these two women behind us look at him and ask him "If he's Japanese why is he taking a sushi course?" I forget his answer but I leaned over to him and asked him very softly, "Where are you from?" "Vietnam" At this point, b/c I can be very sarcastic, I tell him "I guess these people haven't learned that Japan and Vietnam are two different countries". I'll also say that Asian people find both Chinese and Oriental derogatory terms. Chinese because there are other countries with different cultures and beliefs, and oriental because it assumes europe is the center of the world. Although it may seem a small issue, I am CANADIAN and proud of it. And I would be extremely insulted if someone called me american, because I am not american in culture nor in belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Jedi_Masta...you seem to be rallying over other peoples points & claim that we shut down talking about this because no one can keep up with you, well, what about my point? I'll quote it below so that you don't have to find it again: Originally posted by Darth Homer hey, Jedi_Masta...one thing Hitler did to the swastika, was turn it up on it's edge....the original symbol stood flat on one of its sides see THIS if you don't believe me....so, basically, your av is a Nazi flag/symbol and nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 yes, it is neo nazi, I didnt say it wasnt, you hafta understand that both of my grandfathers fought against nazi germany but I feel that simply for the sake of a good solid fight I would take the Nazi side because I cannot agree with the amount of racism that shows up here in the name of equality, i am not saying that i support the nazi ideals i am simply saying that the world has been lied to about what the nazis really did, History is changed depending on who wins wars, or who writes the history, all history is set to opinion. It might be offensive, but if you are offended choose not to participate in the debate, I force nothing down your throats therefore my freedom to use it stands. Israel has done just as terrible things persecuting the palestinians, the german people have been beaten down throughout their history and they allways seem to rebuild. wearing the banner of israel is just as bad as using the swastika, We owe alot to the nazis, this sounds strange but most of the new science including the space age. computers, all of that stems back to the nazis or the effort to defeat them, I wish i could find that neo nazi site that explained the meaning of the new swastika, especially the one in my avatar because it is neo nazi, it said something about reducing descrimination against the white majority or something. if that is the case i think we can all learn something from the nazis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Originally posted by pbguy1211 Wow... when I saw some of the other threads in this section I thought... "wow, there are some pretty smart people in these forums and you can actually have a reasonable debate here" Well, this thread shot to $h!t that idea... Jedi Masta... you have some issues, not to mention some really warped sense of reality and a false sense of history. i find it disheartening to think that someone with your mindset and points of view lives in the same country that i do. not to mention the fact that i dont think you'd have the balls to say anything you say here to someone face. hell, i'm not jewish but the swastika offends me on a general level of humanity. i really can't even find the words to argue with you... and if i could muster them right now, you wouldnt hear them anyway so it'd be fairly pointless. so i have no intention to try... this is my last post in this thread... period. wanna see me have the balls to say it to somebodys face, you all have the warped sense that the swastika is somehow a crime against humanity, it is simply a point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 I didn't want to reply to this, and I haven't read all of JM's replies (he's on my Ignore list, I wonder why), but I wanted to ask this to the moderators: Look at threads like "why is Holland better than the USA"? Do you see something like.. a padlock by the name of the thread? Yep. Why? Because it's closed. Then, open the thread and look at the second post. What do you see? Something like "<edit: Offensive picture removed>". Moderators, why is it that when someone posts something jokingly about a nation (who even is from that nation and thus has the cover of 'self-irony') under the safe cover of 'humour' you close the thread and hunt down the pictures -but when someone posts a swastika and makes racist remarks If I try to get the thread reopened and the picture reposted in the name of freedom of speech, will it be reopened? Most likely not. Obviously, this guy's jokes about a people's attitude towards Americans is too obscene and offensive for these boards. But JM's neo-nazi views are okay due to freedom of speech? The swastika also symbolizes buddhism, etc. We can't ban a religious symbol or the buddhists will be upset Uh.. I am a Buddhist. What do I want JM to do? Take it down. Strictly speaking, you'll need to quote the part of the constitution stating that jokes about Netherlenders (made by Netherlenders) are illegal in order to justify this farce. If your argument is "ok, so it's not necessarily illegal, but we don't want flaming/trolling/angry people on these forums", then why is that argument suddenly so invalid when it comes to this thread. JM's trolling, we're angry, the works. Personally, I'm not returning until JM's banned and gone. Look at the community rules, rule 5. Oh, and: The nazis simply had the insight to see that it is impossible to unite europe without conquest Two words: European Union. You're so arrogant that it's a joke Last: Some weeks ago I talked to this Asian-heritaged kiddo. Guess where she was from? Norway. Not only Norway, but my freaking hometown. Took away the last of generalization towards Asians that I had, if any I'll stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 lol... could somebody please relay this to eagle: Isnt it nice that you can hide behind your ignore feature, instead of giving me a good debate. I will take it down the moment you take down the flag of israel if i get banned, he should be banned too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 You failed to mention, JM, that the Palestinians have done just as terrible things back to the Israelis...the Jews did nothing back to the Nazis, they were executed by the millions. Also, the Jews were not the single target of the Nazis...remember, they were going for a pure "Aryan" race...they would have killed anyone they didn't see as perfect. It would have only been a matter of time before they started going after everyone else, the Jews were just the first, convenient targets; they were the easiest to single out. The way you talk, JM, makes me think that you admire Hitler for what he was trying to achieve...like you somehow have rationalized and bull****ted yourself into believing that his genocide was ok, simply because part of the Jewish faith was that they believe to be God's "chosen." Now, that's what it seems like to me, I want to believe that you see it differently, but am having a hard time. The Neo-Nazis stand for the same thing, you wouldn't go around espousing the ideals of the KKK, would you? They have the same goals, really. I believe the term is "White Power"? They do not want to simply discourage discrimination against white people, they want to either expel non-whites or do away with them.... Have you ever heard the saying, "Your freedoms end where my nose begins"? Basically, that means that you can do whatever you want until it becomes harmful to others (and I mean "harmful" to mean more than just physical). In past posts, I have provided links to outside sources, you always seem to just state something as fact, I would like for you to make an argument and provide an outside source as proof of what you say. Another thing we have to consider is that this board is international, so using the "I have free speech" argument is not valid. It all falls down to what the admins & mods think. We've already heard from C'jais on one of these threads, I wonder what Rhett or the others think about this. This is the last I'm going to say on this issue, it has been argued over many threads and it seems to that you, JM, just want to make people angry so that they will argue with you, if you want a serious debate about something like this, ask for it, don't piss people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I hadn't been reading this thread and I am completely appalled at what I have now read. I now understand why it is that Dago and Homer want you banned, and as of this moment I heartily agree with them. In this day and age, knowing what we know and being taught what we have been taught, how can you profess such beliefs. There was nothing positive of the Nazi regime, and by the way, there is no evidence that points to an Aryan "race". That was nazi propaganda from the start. The race is caucasian and includes those with dark hair, red hair, brown eyes etc. To state you believe in the supremecy of a non-existant race created by perpetrators of such heinus hate crimes and knowing full well the history of the symbol you wear and the ideas of which you speak just proves that your mindset is not of a stable, self-thinking, and sane individual. You want to support the supremecy of one specific race, and do so non-violently? Then instead of adopting the philosophy and practices of a hated and despised regime of infamy, why not create your own cult. At least then you would be hated for you own racist comments, and actions. In essence making you a creative bigot as opposed to a mindless bigot devoid of self thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 The swastika is gone. Looks like he got the message. I'll stand down as long as no more nazism is communicated from JM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 All I want here is a serious debate, but it is impossible to have a serious debate when there is a large amout of people who 1. will not address your points 2. when you disagree you are immediately made out to be a bigot before you have time to defend yourself. My main point throughout this entire thread has been that as a white male I tend to feel allmost discriminated against because I have no race card to play, everybody else can play discrimination but it never works in reverse. Dago changed his, I will change mine. Im out of this thread unless i get some more JM bashing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 JM, I absolutely am not trying to bash you, but why argue for a point of view that you say you don't believe in? What's the point in that? Raise tempers and blood pressures, and possibly get banned? Create an atmosphere of animosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 answering question, I feel that we shouldnt follow people like drones consenting to their every belief, the idea that me disagreeing with you stand on racism makes me a bad person is completely false, I like to argue the unpopular point because it gives me something to argue about, overly caring about racism is damaging to a society, and punishing people for thier politics is even more damaging, as you tried to do to me even though they werent my real policies, I am incredibly conservative but I must say that fascism is the other end of the stick, it is liberalism driven out of control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Ok, let me just say that arguing the otherside is not what we were angry about, it was the particular views that were being argued and the undertones that group held is what angered us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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