Khaalis Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 So we have been told that there are "some" merchants in the game but they are mostly for the newb players that havent earned credits to afford anything better than bare basic equipment. We have also been told that the economy will thus be 99% player driven. Does anyone else have any worries about this? I am a long time EQer and I remember the days of an imature server, when items were still somewhat rare. It was better to go hunt items you could use, complete quests, or just go without rather than falling pray to the "Player Economy" where not only did you have to bring your hard earned Plat, but a tube of KY while you were at it. Is there going to be anything in the game to prevent Price Gouging, Monopoly Associations, etc. I look at the real world and look at Gasloline Pricing. Here in upstate NY gas is around $1.75/gallon, yet if you go to Pensylvania it is only around $1.40 all because of different Gasoline Associations. I can see it now. "You want me to pay 100 credits for a blaster clip?" "Yep." "Thats robbery. I'll go somewhere else." "Feel free. Everyone in town has the same price." I know I am likely being a bit alarmist about it all, but a player run economy can get very very ugly, since it is not going to be based on real world ethical business practices of fair trade, fair pricing, competitive pricing, etc. Has anyone else thought about this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Just go to another town then? An NPC run one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaalis Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 All towns will have the basic starting npc vendors, but it has been stated that what they sell will be very limited, and that we will need to get most of our equipment from other players. Even if you go to another town its likely you could run into the same pricing issues. Also, what if you need those Blaster clips to survive long enough to get to the next city? What if you have to pay for a transport to get somewhere else? "Sorry d00d. Im like the only Clip seller on the planet. 100 credits per or walk." Just rambling thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgaric Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I get what your saying but aint that fair though the playser has chosen to not run around the galaxy but to hone there skill at creating things and if they are the only one around then they can charge what they want ..i mean look at the price wars between shops that could happend 1 place a clip cost 100 2 place under cuts and so one undercuts them...etc etc but if they are the only one there you could end up with an auction going on for that all important clip. 1 player Ill pay 100 2 player Ill pay 110 and so on it all comes down to supply and demand and if you can corner the market (a well know coffeshop or fast food shop ring a bell?) then fair play using that analogy as well someone could be the only person some where and charge just over basic costs for something and end up with everyone going to him and his shop because he's resonable and he owns the market thusly. okay so its capitalisum at it best but remember you want to play in a fully functioning universe... so you cant have it all ways its like saying ohh the empire is bad and they control the galaxy as long as they cant invade or have control my planet. bounty hunter character should pay attention to this post as it could end up with a price war on bounties so they can be the biggest and badest with x amount of missions completed. same thing supply demand and making a name also read my signature it kinda sums it all up E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaruSante Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 ill give you an example , i have been in Anarchy online for about 2 years now and heres how it works : economy has been NPC driven for about 90% grid armor costed 275 mill at launch , and now it still costs 275 mill ... see what im pointing out ? player run economy will be exciting , dynamic and it will actually be a real intensive profession to play a merchant .. since you will be needing informants all over the planet watching prices , luring customers come on ppl doesn't this all excite ya'll ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 i dont tihnk this will be as complicated as real world economy....but if your that worrie about buying things...go into the profession yourself or at least the basic skills....or get a friend to sell u cheap or free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Yes, if EVERYONE are selling clips at 100 creds, imagine the wealth waiting for you if you can manage to shell them out at 80... there's pros and cons with a playerdriven economy, and the pro that it makes merchants and crafters a really important profession and not a mule-only profession kind of outweights all cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMardigan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I agree with all of the above. A player run economy rules. I don't know where you think the EQ economy is overpriced. The only thing I see at high prices is the components for tradeskill items, and that's only because of supply and demand. The economy in SWG will be totally Supply and Demand and I will be an active participant. Looking for those hard to get high priced items so I can sell them, or being the only one in Mos Eisly (or where ever) selling P38 Explosive Modulators! AS far as your Gasoline analogy you are way off. The only reason the prices vary so much between those two states is that NY charges more state and local taxes per gallon than PA. The great thing about SWG is that you CAN go out and hunt for the things (and make them) yourself, or go to another town and look for a better price, or get with some friends and each of you take a small amount of skill to apply to each component to build said item. I am soooo looking forward to this aspect of the game. It will be the biggest advancement over any other MMORPG to date. Happy Ttrading! MadMardigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaruSante Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 player run economy will add a new dimension to galaxies ... as you will be able to get rich with shooting a monster to loot it's credits . thanks to the dev's for this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgaric Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 okay fair enough that cetain things will have a den etc but you have to remeber this is NOT a fantasy (D&D) based games so not everything as such will drop loot I belive one of the devs covered this in an editorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Yup, creatures will mostly drop hides and stuff, and then you'll have to have the skills to purify them into tradeable items. Though, you can hunt bipedal creatures who might supply more than their hides... Ok, now that was a grisly picture! *wanders off in her skirt made of ewok fur* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaalis Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Now dont get me wrong. I never said I was against the player economy. I do look forward to what it offers. I just dont want to see it get abussive. It takes the fun out of the game, for me at least. I just see a lot of Ferengi wanna-bes thinking they get rich by robbing people blind (I know - wrong universe but the analagy fits). I am not one to be a money hunter. Wasnt in EQ either. I wasnt one to be driven to have 1 mill plat by X level like some players. I am not a power gamer and I dont like that form of play. I am in it for the role-playing experience, and find that it ruins that experience when the world (and economy) are run by the power gamers just because they can. Originally posted by CaruSante come on ppl doesn't this all excite ya'll ? Umm....NO! I live, eat, breath (ie: I WORK) in the business world. Its not what I want to escape to in a fantasy universe. Granted I could probably do very well in the game as a Crafter/Merchant using my real world business knowledge and skills, but ... like I said. A game to me is an escape. Its entertainment, something to while away the hours and fill my head with mind numbing images. Originally posted by Lord Helmet i dont tihnk this will be as complicated as real world economy....but if your that worrie about buying things...go into the profession yourself or at least the basic skills....or get a friend to sell u cheap or free It wont be as complicated, but I do worry about the "fun factor" versus the "frustration factor". As for your suggestion, this is exactly what I think is going to happen with the Associations (ie Guilds). To their members they will charge normal prices, while gouging everyone else. As for the other arguments of competition bringing prices down - that may happen in time. But how many people do you think will REALLY play merchants. Not many. Even if they do, and are smart. Price wars are the WORST thing for business. Why do you think so many corporations work together to establish Pricing. Gasoline Associations are like this. Why do you think as you drive around town noone is every more than roughly 3-4 cents different? They have an association that states the minimum selling price. Look at BK and McD. Do you see their menu prices dropping every week trying to undersell the other? No - because they came to an "industry standard" agreement - why do you think all the fast food places hae their version of the "Dollar Menu"? Originally posted by MadMardigan AS far as your Gasoline analogy you are way off. The only reason the prices vary so much between those two states is that NY charges more state and local taxes per gallon than PA. This is not entirely true. I happen to know someone who owns a small chain of stations (5 in fact). He has to price to cover the federally regulated base price, taxes, and then the associations minimum selling price. He cannot undercut that minimum price to drum up business or he will be spending more money on legal fees than he made in new business. Originally posted by Elgaric so not everything as such will drop loot I belive one of the devs covered this in an editorial Correct, not everything will drop loot, but some things should. I see nothing wrong with a Scout Harvesting body parts to take to town and sell (ie: Old World Trapper/Hunter). I also dont see a problem with being able to loot things off humanoids you kill. If you fight a bandit and he was wielding a VibroKnife - why would it disappeared when you killed him? Anyway...just some random thoughts. Just waiting for the Space Expansion so I can go back to being the equivalent of a "Port W****" from EQ. "Need a ride? Transporting to all Starting City Ports for Donations,. Please send a transmission." 'May the Schwartz be with you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMardigan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Ok, I'll give you the "Association" minimum price, but that is a small part of the overall differnce in price between states, and is somewhat a form of organized crime (which is what I think you're getting at). I don't think this will ever happen in SWG because there will always be someone trying to make the quick buck and sell something way below the average price in the PC markets. To me this is where I will be role playing at my best, trading and such goods and services. And I totally agree with you, "Down with power gamers! Up with Role Players!" MadMardigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaruSante Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 khaalis you are making a mistake , it's a GAME ... NOT the real world .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPack Jack Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 For topics such as this , we should w8 until the release of the game before we make judgements and guesses on what will happen. The PC run economy might be a great success and will run smoother than sumthing v.runny and smooth. Or it could be a complete mess and every world could be like Tatooine. Rip-off merchants, pirates, low-lifes, etc, not barren desert planet, D'oh!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorsanvil Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 the player based economy is always self adjusting, I have seen items in UO go from Super rare to useless over night because of one patch. Then a year later they are double what they are originally worth. in UO, i made millions of gold just mining, sure at first 100k in iron ingots only got me about 200k in gold, but eventually i had regular buyers who paid me 2 mil for the same amount. some people will have it, and some people will running around collecting the stuff people dropped. its the economics of it all. i remember thinking once in UO, look at all these backpacks this guy is dropping, i can sell them at the NPC shop for 23 gold each, wow wee, i am rich. 2 years later, I am the guy dropping the 300 backpacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pax Romana Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I am really excited about the player driven economy. It will be one of the most dynamic aspects of SWG. Players will scramble after release to change professions to ones that are making the most credits. Then, those profs. will become overcrowded, and people will try to switch back. Also, how mining will work seems interesting. Once a certain resource is mined out it will become rare and hence more valuable. PAs will be able to operate more like businesses, instead of just raiding. Just think of all of the aspects that go into creating a PA that wants to mass produce weapons for example. They will need to harvest or gather raw materials - Miners They will need to build blueprints and design weapons - Crafters They will need to mass produce those items - Industrialists They will need to sell those items - Merchants They might need someone to build a PA hall - Architect They might need an someone to rejuvinate them - chef/entertainer This is going to be a lot of fun! Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dradle Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Supply and Demand..... There is aways someone out there going to over charge you for a blaster clip, but if you keep your head and plan ahead. You will never be left with an empty tube of KY, and a felling of being screwed out of your hard earn credits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 yeah, playerrun economy rocks! and being a merchant will be cool cause youll be able to make your own things and sell them or just find an item Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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