Gameplay Suggestions

[Break_dF]

nothing major, but something new:

 

umm, the keyboard set-up... it's easy to configure and change but why should the default set be so un-balanced? For example, crouch is c. With the default, it was impossible to roll right... was this ever even thought about?... I hope not. Also, the scroll force set is a bit ridiculous. crouch should be shift or something.... yeah, I know, that's pretty petty and pointless but hell, it's a suggestion.

[BloodRiot]

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Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

I've often wondered about CTF maps which are physically easier if you use teamwork, ie one person use force to lower/raise a bridge, so that another player can take a shorter route to the flag.

 

That would actually be sweet... not necessarily team work but at least interactive maps.. yeah that could be very good.

 

Some turrets people could man a la Medal of honor (just not so vulnerable to snipers like omaha beach) in strategic defense points. Or traps like the deathstar map... it was in ffa so why not in ctf as well?

 

Sounds good to me

[Solo4114]

Yeah, that'd definitely be cool. I'd love to see maps that require more teamwork and less lone-wolf style gameplay (at least for CTF). The one problem is when you have idiots on your team who either try to be a cowboy and do things all by themselves, or who won't back you up on offense or defense.

 

I'd love to see more interactive maps with traps, extendable (and retractable) bridges, force fields, etc. That could add some real depth to an otherwise straightforward map. IE: you could force-field off a particular approach, and require people to either use some force power to deactivate it, blow the field's generator up, or go around to a different approach (which, hopefully your team was defending as a choke point).

[Luc Solar]

How about making grip hurt more? I'm thinking about causing damage by grip-throwing people into walls etc. "Horizontal fall damage".

 

Also wall walking and and kicking should be possible while holding a gun.

 

Interactive maps was already mentioned, but having different kind of surfaces would make things even more interesting. (water to slow you down, or swim/hide in, slippery slopes..that sort of stuff.)

 

It might also be a good idea to make maps amendable by moving objects like crates or whatever. This could add a whole lot more strategy to CTF games. (Slowing the opponent down by pushing objects in his way. Blocking certain paths etc.) Might create a whole lot of weird exploits though..

[Luc Solar]

Check out this idea >>>

 

Not only pushable & pullable objects, but a whole new force power.

 

As far as I know, grip is used as a tool, not as an attack as such. You grip because that way you can toss someone over the edge. You grip so that you can kick the opponent to death. But who uses grip the way it is "supposed to be used"? The traditional point with grip is that the opponent is choked to death. Can't breath, takes damage, dies.

 

How about changing grip altogether? Make it an incapacitating, damaging move (I'm tempted to say "just like in the movies", but I hate that argument...so I won't. )

 

Now.. the brand new force power would be filling this gap the new grip left: some sort of Telekinesis power that lets you, in a grip-like fashion, manipulate not only objects, but also the opponent.

 

Smash a crate in the face of the attacking enemy sending him flying off the cliff!

 

Grab another player and block an incoming missile with his body!

 

Eeeh... on second thought, it's probably best to forget all I said about changing grip. Having "telekinesis" affect other players would be too much, I guess. Oh well..

 

Anyways, think of all the possibilities you'd get from a grip-like power that can be used to manipulate objects. Pulling or pushing stuff would be cool, but being actually able to CONTROL these objects.. whoa!

 

Imagine attacking a player who suddenly "grips" a crate from the nearby ledge and hurls it in your face. Imagine reflexively using Force push a split second before the crate hits you sending it flying forward, squashing the opponent against a wall.

 

*drool*

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Luc,

 

I think your really onto something there man.

 

I could imagine grabbing light objects and throwing them about much like grip does now.

 

But heavy objects have to gain momentum.

 

So, you first would point to an object and 'grab it'

THen, you quickly move your cursor over to an opponent.

 

But the heavier objects won't just zip over to that point. It would slowly build up speed, curving into the direction of where your pointing.

 

If your opponent moves, you can adjust your cursor and the object will try and follow your directions, but heavier objects can't change their path as easiely as smaller objects = so it ends up balancing out.

 

Smaller objects = less damage, but more chance of hitting moving target

 

Larger objects = more damage, but less chance of hitting moving target.

 

I guess fast, small objects and slower, large objects both have similar potential to knock your opponent over...

 

Of course the more powerful your force power, the heavier objects you can throw around and the faster they gain speed...

 

That would be a VERY cool feature. Good thinking man...

[Luc Solar]

Exactly!

 

And imagine all the ways you could manipulate the objects! Move them and strenghten the impact with a good mid-air push.

 

or

 

Take a huge crate and lift it up on a ledge above you. Wait for an opponent to challenge you to a duel and when he is right under the ledge... quickly grab the crate and give it some extra velocity (with pull) and let it drop through the air right on the poor sob's head crushing him like an ant.

 

LMAO! I can already see it: "LAMER! HONOURLESS PRICK! No dropping-crates-on-opponents-while-dueling U n00b!!"

 

Damn..I'm starting to like this idea so much that I'll probably be really disappointed if it's not implemented in JA.

[DLK_Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Check out this idea >>>

 

Not only pushable & pullable objects, but a whole new force power.

 

As far as I know, grip is used as a tool, not as an attack as such. You grip because that way you can toss someone over the edge. You grip so that you can kick the opponent to death. But who uses grip the way it is "supposed to be used"? The traditional point with grip is that the opponent is choked to death. Can't breath, takes damage, dies.

 

How about changing grip altogether? Make it an incapacitating, damaging move (I'm tempted to say "just like in the movies", but I hate that argument...so I won't. )

 

Now.. the brand new force power would be filling this gap the new grip left: some sort of Telekinesis power that lets you, in a grip-like fashion, manipulate not only objects, but also the opponent.

 

Smash a crate in the face of the attacking enemy sending him flying off the cliff!

 

Grab another player and block an incoming missile with his body!

 

Eeeh... on second thought, it's probably best to forget all I said about changing grip. Having "telekinesis" affect other players would be too much, I guess. Oh well..

 

Anyways, think of all the possibilities you'd get from a grip-like power that can be used to manipulate objects. Pulling or pushing stuff would be cool, but being actually able to CONTROL these objects.. whoa!

 

Imagine attacking a player who suddenly "grips" a crate from the nearby ledge and hurls it in your face. Imagine reflexively using Force push a split second before the crate hits you sending it flying forward, squashing the opponent against a wall.

 

*drool*

 

 

I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY AND 100000000%. MY WORDS EXACTLY! u said it better then i could have ever had!

 

*grips a boulder and tosses it onto his opponent!* lol

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by DLK_Sephiroth

*grips a boulder and tosses it onto his opponent!* lol

 

*jumps over incoming boulder, speeds it up with a push and watches it roll down the hill into a pack of fanboys sitting around a bonfire bowing and performing various emotes*

 

[BloodRiot]

Hmmm the idea has tremendous potential no doubt... I really like it... I'm just worried about it's practical usefulness in the field.. cuz it may be hard to manipulate it the way we want it even with tons of practice (I'm all for skill and training). If it indeed practical then Im all for it... if it's not... simply do it with some trageting system that makes it possible for the crate to actually hit your opponent.. maybe something in the likes of JK1... maybe selecting one or more objects and then selecting the target enemy.

 

Hmmm how about this:

1st you press and hold the Telekinesis button with the crosshair focussing on the desired object. Then you could manipulate it at will as long as you have mana. But if you release the key while your crosshair is centered on your opponent, then the object would be thrown straight at him with about 30 to 45 degree maximum angle turn.

 

This way you can both manipulate objects without the "as a wepon" intent for like blocking a path or having that extra hight to reach a certain ledge, and you could still use the power to hurt opponents.

 

Cheers

[DLK_Sephiroth]

That sounds good!

[Solo4114]

Say....that's not bad! I like that technique, Blood. You'd target the object you want to throw, hit the force button (or whatever), then while you're holding that down, if you aim over a particular person, a targeting reticle will appear (as in JK1) and the object will be hurled towards them when you release the button. Otherwise, you'll just move the object slowly as you drag your own crosshair around (IE: the object will lag behind somewhat, depending on its size, then catch up with the crosshair). You could actually target more than just opponents, too. You could target turrets, door panels, etc. and be able to toss objects around at anything that picks up a target.

 

With different levels of the power, you could either gain the ability to levitate the object for longer periods of time (thus a higher level person could move a larger object to where they want it to go, whereas a low level player would have to keep picking it up and dropping it), or you could have the degree of accuracy of the targeting system increase with higher levels.

[BloodRiot]

Yeah Solo that's the general idea.

I haven't thought about the door switch idea.. sound cool too. I'd also make force push interact with all doorswitches no only those intended by the game.

[StriderPrime00]

That force power can also be used in a teamwork environment. One jedi holds the object in mid air, while the other jedi can freely aim the object and force push it at someone.

 

This might not be a popular idea, but I would like to see the weapons that you can carry at one time reduced to 2 weapons + 1 lightsaber, similar to how Halo works. I think that by reducing the weapons you can carry, it will force players to learn the level design and placement of weapons better. This will also force players to be resourceful with what weapon they have at the time.

[StriderPrime00]

In Dark forces: Jedi Knight, Force Pull was able to activate switches to traps across a room. I love my ability to force push someone into a carbon freezing chamber, then used force pull on the switch across the room to freeze my enemy before he can jump out.

 

Raven should bring this feature back into JA and implement more clever traps in the level design of JA.

[Haplo721]

I haven't read the majority of this thread, so bear with me if I repeat anything.

 

1. Force Push/Pull should have a range of about 10 feet tops. I cannot tell you how annoying it is to be constantly knocked off ledges from 50 feet away.

 

2. Either give players the option of assigning Force Jump to a different key than normal jumping, or make it less sensitive, or both. It can be tough to do a normal jump when you want to do so for whatever reason.

 

3. Allow Pull to hurl objects at opponents. Throw wasn't very useful in JK, and probably never will be, but it looks cool. Tacking it onto a widely used power (Pull) means you can use it to be stylish without wasting Force Points.

 

4. Allow players to choose classes like in MotS. Additionally, make it so players can spend Force Points on stuff other than Force powers- like let Bounty Hunters buy jetpacks and flamethrowers, or Scouts buy probe droids (lets you deploy a small flying droid that you can control like the mouse droid in the second SP level).

 

5. Getting hit with a lightsaber should do pretty much the same amount of damage (a lot) regardless of what stance you're in. Instead of changing the damage, make it so that heavy blows are more likely to power through an opponent's defense, while quick blows let you rapidly strike your opponent until one gets through.

 

6. Take a poll to see what weapons are the most popular out of the entire Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series and use the top ones, keeping them as close to the original as possible while maintaining balance.

[BloodRiot]

Since JA is gonna allow so much customization i say besides hilts, one could also choose the priamry weapon's model.. the weapon would do pretty much the same just like the saber, only the model would change... like han solo's blastech blaster or boba's sawed off blaster rifle. that sort of thing.

[The Truthful Liar]

I've finished it!

 

The GSD has been uploaded. You can read it here. I'm still writing up the CTF Issues section so you'll have to wait alittle while longer before I get that done.

 

If you feel that anything is missing which should be added or if something needs more clarification/changing, please list that section (no need to quote it) with your comment on how to make that issue better.

 

I must thank you all for your suggestions, it certainly helped while putting this together, now we'll need even stronger support from the community to make this GSD a reality. I read over in ravenforum's jk2 section that Kenn Hoekstra would be linking the JK3 team to this thread.

 

So at least there's some hope for us after all. Cheers. ; )

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

I disagree with quite a lot of that document... But I also know that elaborating will cause even more arguments...

 

The weapons suggestions are ok, the bugfixes are certainly important. My main argument is with the force handling, but then again most of the competitive community did leave your discussion out of boredom before you even got to the matter of force...

 

Too many of the force suggestions change the very nature of the force power itself, rage and absorb for example. It would be better if minor aspects and/or the overuse of these were moderated somehow...

 

From what i'm aware we've nearly always put pull and push in the same annoyance bracket, yet your document says push is fine. One of the main complaints about pull/push is that it made defence in CTF rediculously simple. When defending the flag platform on Bespin Pipes, push is used just as much if not more than pull.

 

As for force speed? well I don't know about anyone else, but for a power which enhances the players movement, the response from turning corners is rediculously sluggish.

[pds.rusted]

here's what definitely needs to be changed that i didn't see in the document, as far as just weapons go

 

- bryar damage when charged needs to be increased (relative to the damage of the gauntlet in q3)

 

- zooming crosshair needs to be added (uh it's a sniper rifle right?), damage increased for primary and secondary fire (jk2 lacked a strong and fast long range weapon)

 

- primary rate of fire for the repeater needs to be bumped back up to whatever it is in sp, secondary damage needs to be increased

 

- emp damage while charged needs to be increased, weapon available for use on atleast one ctf map

 

- primary fire for the golan needs to be more visible/stronger, secondary firing range for the golan needs to be bumped back up to whatever it is in sp

 

- rocket launcher needs one or more of the following - increased ammo, increased traveling speed, increased damage

[BloodRiot]

Well i agree with both push and pull 1st level. i think what you pointed out as level 3 be level 2 and allow multiple for level 3 but make the range affect the strangth of the push and pull. For level 3 since it allows multiple enemies to be pulled or pushed i say keep the cone of effect not so wide for it to be abusinve.. like if one enemy was centered in the crossair... you'd have only room for about one or two enemies right besie to be pushed or pulled.. if they are too scattered then only the one at the center would be affected. Remember.. the farther away.. the less impact the power should have.. like at point blank range, the opponent would be completely pushed away for instance.. while a guy 50 feet away would only be mildly delayed...farther than that it's just like a breeze countering your opponent.

 

The average speed is sometimes not a good thing to be higher... for gunz.. yes by all means.. the more frantic the better... but with sabers... it gets too fast and confusing leading to the already mentioned "runpast eachother slashing likecrazy" syndrome. I think it should be adjustable according to the type of game trhough a cvar or something.

[The Truthful Liar]

- Target should be accurately aimed at level 3.

 

The effect it has at distance is a given.

[AV4T4R]

I totally agree with the idea to make CLASSES in the game!

 

Maybe it would give more life and interests to the game if u allow JEDi vs MERCENARY game style.. so if u allow that a JEDi increase his skills in force power and saber use, and a mercenary in tecnological support and weapons skills!

 

So u could have a really interesting variety in the game matches

[Break_dF]

Umm... can something about beta testing be mentioned please? Jesus, that's the most important thing.

[The Truthful Liar]

Where would you recommend mentioning that? Raven already has a staff of 'ready hand' beta testers somewhere in california I believe and they specifically mention on their website that they don't need such 'testers'. :]