JJeff09 Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 The game said that when a Jedi uses his powers out in public, the people can attack him? Well I have alot of questions about that statement. 1.) When you use your powers out in public, they can attack you. They will also know who you are and know who is a Jedi. If everyone knows then you will be hunted down. 2.) When you do become a Jedi, do the administrator knows who become a Jedi and know how many Jedi there are. If you become a Jedi FIRST, then you want people to know that you become the Jedi first, but he can't do that because if he say that, everyone will know and will wait until he uses his powers so they can attack him. That wouldn't be fun. 3.) Also when you are fighting a monster, and a person sees you use a Jedi power against the monsters, they can just backstab you when he sees you are a Jedi while you have problems fighting the monsters. 4.) You can't trust anyone if you are a Jedi, I mean people will just kill you when they know. 5.) What is the point of trying to be a Jedi. If you become a Jedi, nobody will know because if they know they will tell who is the Jedi and some people will go after you. That wouldn't be fun. 6.) Also when you die, do you get penalty of dying because if there isn't they can just try to kill you and get lucky, and they wouldn't loose anything, and the Jedi have something to loose. His life! because if you die, you have to start over. 7.) If there is penalty, do you loose money? Items? what? So can somebody straight things out, and explain to me in details before I buy the game. Thanks because I see no point in becoming a Jedi. YOu get no fame, you will get hunted down, and you get only 1 life, so there are people out there to make your life miserable. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 1. Was this a question? 2. If you become a Jedi first, don't tell anyone. IN fact, if you become Jedi at all, don't tell anyone. 3. Yes, pretty much. 4. Not entirelly true, I'm sure you can find some friends you can trust. 5. Personal achievement and satisfaction. Doing something that is supposed to be near impossible. 6. I don't quite understand this question. Are you talking about the Jei or non-Jedi for attacking a Jedi? 7: Same as 6. Basically, don't base your decission wether to buy this game on the Jedi issue. This isn't a Jedi game. Wrong timeperiod for that, my friend. They shouldn't even be in the game. The Jedi Knights are nearly wiped out at this time. According to GL there are only 1 left (Obi Wan is already dead, Luke has just barelly started his training, and that leaves Yoda). According to EU I've only heard of 2 or 3 more Jedi in addition to Yoda, out of thousands before the Clone War started 21-22 years or so before this game takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 [align=center]Welcome to the SWGalaxies.Net Forums!!![/align] I'm Jan Gaarni, XO of the Official Welcomming Committee and Moderator of this place. The 2 other Moderators here are Wraith 8 and Darth_Sidious. Be sure to check out the Read This First thread at the top of this forum, as it contains some guidelines on how to behave, if you haven't all ready. Most here are friendly and the aggression level is far from what you will find in the Official SWG Boards, so I'm sure you will like it here. Please feel free to stay as long as you want. And have some chocolate covered gnorts. Complementary Juztyn, the Admin of these boards and SWGalaxies.Net. !ATTENTION! These are chocolate gnorts, not real gnorts! Also be sure to check out the SWGalaxies.Net site which is connected to these forums. We hope you enjoy your stay here on the SWGalaxies.Net Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=ReApEr=- Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Welcome as well from me The dark Prisoner of SWG, i myself am a slave living in Aresen. Only being aloud to be this far away from home. Anyhowz welcome to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Since there was never any Jedi in beta and there isn't likely to be any appearing on the servers for about 3 months from what the developers said the information we have to go on is directly from the developers. 1.) When you use your powers out in public, they can attack you. They will also know who you are and know who is a Jedi. If everyone knows then you will be hunted down. When a Jedi uses their powers at all they incur a TEF, this lasts for about 2 minutes and means ANYONE can attack you. Once that time expires you cannot be attacked any more. Thus you won't find bounty hunters turning up on your doorstep unless you have actually incurred a bounty on your head and this is the BH who is collecting it. By all accounts if you are a known Jedi and walk into a city you cannot be attacked unless you use your power or have a bounty on you. 2.) When you do become a Jedi, do the administrator knows who become a Jedi and know how many Jedi there are. If you become a Jedi FIRST, then you want people to know that you become the Jedi first, but he can't do that because if he say that, everyone will know and will wait until he uses his powers so they can attack him. That wouldn't be fun. The servers keep try of populations, since the number of Jedi and Force sensitive players needs to be kept low enough to be right for this time in the SW history you'll find certain checks in place to ensure that if there is too many Jedi then they are getting killed more and if there is too few then the chances of becoming one are increased. 3.) Also when you are fighting a monster, and a person sees you use a Jedi power against the monsters, they can just backstab you when he sees you are a Jedi while you have problems fighting the monsters. Yep. The Jedi are supposed to be very hard to play as. They are the ultimate goal for any player to acheive plus this is the ONLY way to ensure that everyone has an equal chance to play as a Jedi at some point while ensuring that you don't have loads of them running around. Unless you're careful when you unlock that Force sensitive slot then you won't even make it as far as Jedi, try to remember that the FS slot is also permadeath and you don't instantly get to start the Jedi profession either. First you need to survive long enough as a regular player with no Force powers but who can die permanently. 6.) Also when you die, do you get penalty of dying because if there isn't they can just try to kill you and get lucky, and they wouldn't loose anything, and the Jedi have something to loose. His life! because if you die, you have to start over. If someone dies then it'd because you have used a deathblow on them. Once they implement the Dark Jedi profession it means you'll find it impossible to use a deathblow without falling to the darkside. You need to understand how the system works, they cannot attack you until you either attack them or use your force powers. You can even defeat them one on one without breaking into a sweat because the Jedi are restricted simply because they are so powerful. I don't exagerate when I say they are able to kill a group of 8 vetern players by themselves. There is infact Jedi NPCs in the game, DarkJedi that is. And there have been groups of 20 people killed off by them, imagine that kind of power in the hands of a player and you'll see why the Jedi need to be so hard to play as. You actually stand more risk from being deathblown by NPCs than you are from players and at least you know long before you get into a fight with NPCs if they are likely to actually kill you. A good 7/10 animals on the non-hostile planets will simply incap you, you're then KO'd for about a minute at which point you stand up and should move away to a quiet area to recover. Only if you are incapped 3 times in the space of 5 minutes will you actually die and have to respawn. Since playing in beta I have only ever died twice in 2 months, and on each occasion it was when i went into a situation i knew was dangerous and could have avoided but felt that the risk would be fun. Staying alive is alot easier than you might think. 7.) If there is penalty, do you loose money? Items? what? You lose money from insured items, that varies on what youy insured but it can easily be within the thousands. The costs for death are very high as they should be. However you do have the option to die and simply run back to your body to recover your items if you want, the actual cost of cloning is quite cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exar_reborn Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 They have pretty much answered your question but I would by the game jedi or not. B/c the likeliness that you'll become a jedi is very slim so don't look at the game just for that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolfan Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 If you are worried about one player back stabbing you dont be, infact you should only worry if it gets up to like 20+ normal players attacking you. according to SOE thats how many normal players it would take to bring down a Jedi, and even more if you are a Jedi Knight. You cannot be easily beaten as a Jedi, thats why you have perma death, but chances of getting perma death as a Jedi isnt likely to ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarak da zabrak Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I wouldn't worry about it, if you ever became a Jedi run out immediately and buy a lottery ticket, cause you're one lucky SOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 according to SOE thats how many normal players it would take to bring down a Jedi, and even more if you are a Jedi Knight. You cannot be easily beaten as a Jedi, thats why you have perma death, but chances of getting perma death as a Jedi isnt likely to ever happen. That's not the only reason why they have permadeath. It's also to keep the Jedi population in check, regardless if they are easy kills or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=ReApEr=- Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Originally posted by Jan Gaarni That's not the only reason why they have permadeath. It's also to keep the Jedi population in check, regardless if they are easy kills or not. That is correct what Jan said, likewho would want 100 Jedis running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dathan Surehand Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Quot Reaps: That is correct what Jan said, likewho would want 100 Jedis running around. You should. That way you have more to chace down and whack. think about this: An inmature player decides to flaunt his "Jedi-hood". Several people see such action. Several people tell friends of bonehead jedi. Several people's friends tell thier friends. All come together and get Jedi K'ng xp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Aklin Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Last time I checked, no XP for PvP Dathan. Just so you know. InPvP the only thing you can gain are faction points, of which your opponent will lose just as many as you gain to prevent cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJeff09 Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 THanks for people who replied to this topic. Although I already bought the game today not just because of Jedi, but because that's the only good looking MMORPG out now, except for FFXI which I am waiting for. So I tried SWG, and I liked it, thanks. I have 1 more question if you can answer - 1.) How do you become a Jedi? I know you have to open that Force S Slot, but how? Is it that, you do a quest or something, and that it magically opens? Is it depend how long you play the game? DO everyone have equal chance? If everyone have equal chance, then there would be alot of Jedi. And you said 3 months till a Jedi appears, but is it possible to appear tomorow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=ReApEr=- Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Its basically random, but also how you do your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 1.) How do you become a Jedi? I know you have to open that Force S Slot, but how? Is it that, you do a quest or something, and that it magically opens? Is it depend how long you play the game? DO everyone have equal chance? If everyone have equal chance, then there would be alot of Jedi. And you said 3 months till a Jedi appears, but is it possible to appear tomorow? A long time ago, in a forum now far, far away I put forwards an airtight theory. This theory met with everything the developers told us about the game and as much as people tried to provide a better theory they never manged to get it to fit all of the facts as mine did. That forum is now long gone but the theory was something i was so proud of that I saved it to a notepad file. ========The Most solid theory on how to unlock the FS slot yet ======== There is a topic i took part in a while ago which attempted to create a theory about how the Force sensitive slot is unlocked, the original theory proposed had many faults so I decided to take all of the information relevent from official sources and try to figure out a basic theory which summed up how the slot is unlocked as simply as possible. The original topic is here if anyone cares to read it. Since then I have had to post links to that topic on a near daily basis but because of the sheer size and shattered nature of the topic the single theory which has yet to be disproved is often missed by people skimming the pages for the quick answer. Unfortuantly this analysis is very long winded for the sake of laying everything out and covering all possibilities. But at present this is the only theory put fowards which fits the requirements for the Jedi/FS system. All information from here on is mainly quotes from that original topic. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our goal is that casual players can become Jedi--in other words, being hardcore is not our selection mechanism. That said, Jedi will be rare. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is about Jedi but there's a very simple fact here, if you do not need to be hardcore to become a Jedi then you need not be hardcore to unlock the force sensitive slot. However, there is no equasion of time in this statement. It might still take 100 hours of play to unlock that slot, a hardcore player will reach it first but a casua player will eventually achieve the same target. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You need to seriously role-play to become a Jedi." Totally untrue. We can't really track it, as I've noted, so we can't use it as a determining factor in whether or not your character becomes a Jedi. I will reveal that becoming a Jedi will involve different things for different players: Some players might find that role-playing was a significant factor, others will feel that exploration was the key, still others might not know exactly what they did to become a Jedi. Let's all say it together: *It will be a different experience for everyone.* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a critial paragraph that smashes any theories of needing to role-play. There is alot of information here but what ISN'T siad is far more interesting. The sheer fact that they are talking about the Jedi aspect rather than the force sensitive aspect is odd but since Jedi are MORE rare than force sensitive we can apply a similar system. Clearly the fact that players might not realise how they became Jedi means there isn't any one event which makes it happen. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're guessing wrong. It doesn't play a major role in determining who becomes a Jedi. It could play some role for some players, but not everyone who role-plays will become a Jedi, and some players who do become Jedi may have never role-played at all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This just reinforces the fact that it is nothing to do with HOW you play the game. Oddly enough though the time scale is again absent from the statement. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow, I sure opened a can of worms, eh? Here's the blunt statements: We will not be choosing who is Force sensitive randomly. If we did this, everyone would be Force sensitive because they'd all try over and over until they got it. We will not be letting players choose to be Force sensitive at character creation. If we did this, everyone would be Force sensitive because who's gonna turn down power if it's offered on a platter? We will not be making Force sensitivity be dependent on time invested. If we did this, everyone would be Force sensitive eventually. Everyone can potentially become a Force-sensitive individual and eventually a Jedi. We're not disclosing how we plan to do this, but I do think that given these four pieces of information, all you smart folks on this board can puzzle it out--and these aren't new pieces of information, either, you've had them for quite a while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fictional character Sherlock Holmes famously stated, that after eliminating all that is not true what remains, however impossible, must be the truth. Since the discussions have only covered what is takes to become a jedi we'll apply the same reasoning to the force sensitive slot as one inherantly leads directly into the other. Unlocking the FS slot does not entail: A single special event occouring Roleplaying Being exceptionally skillful Having a very experienced character Playing for a very long time This leaves us with only a few possibility based on what has been said. Therefore given all the evidence and the statement that all that we have been told is enough to figure this riddle out I believe that the slot is unlocked by: A sequence of related events That means that the more you play the greater your chance of becoming force sensitive, however because it requires more than one event it's perfectly possible for a hardcore player to never unlock a force sensitive slot while a casual gamer gets lucky and takes part in the events during their first month. Think of it like the lottery, if you have 6 winning numbers you hit the jackpot. The more loterry tickets you have the greater your chance, how you play the game doesn't matter but simply playing will. Given that they can't track every players actions these events MUST be missions that you are given by NPCs. However winning or failing them has no bearing on unlocking the force sensitive slot. The devs said that sooner or later the 'secret' will be posted. That secret is the type of mission which can lead to unlocking this slot. As there are a fixed number of missions which are basically pulled from a database all you need to is accept the ones which are 'hot' and turn down the others. Overtime though the devs will no doubt shuffle them around so that we dont always know what missions are 'hot' compared to which are cold. Play the game, have fun and take every mission that is given to you. ===The system explained by example=== They said that role-player is impossible to moniter hence it can't be the key. It would require someone to be following your every action and monitering your conversations. The idea of flagging missions would only occour for people who had started their mission when it was flagged. People who had already completed the mission wouldn't benefit from it currently being flagged anyway or effect people who were in the middle of the same mission. ONLY if it was flagged when you took it would you stand a chance of hitting jackpot. So lets say you had missions numbered 1 to 3 and the server was set to give the FS slot to anyone who had a certain 3 missions one directly after the other in a perticular order. In this case we'll use 1, 2 and 3 as an example. So you have Bob and Bill, Bob gains mission 2, then Bill gains mission 1. They go out, finish the missions and come back. Bob is then given mission 1 while Bill ends up with mission 2. They go out again and then come back. Finally Bob and Bill are thinking of logging off but they decide to take one more mission. Bob is given mission 3 and so is Bill, great they think. We can work together. So they go out and together they complete the mission. Suddenly Bill gets a message on screen saying he now have a force sensitive slot. Bill screams in excitement and tells Bob who is surprized. They talk for a while and discover they had both done missions 1, 2 and 3 that day. The difference is that Bob did them in the order 2 1 3 while Bill did them in 1 2 3 and that is what won him the FS slot. A few hours later news goes out across the internet that the missions need to be completed in the order 1 2 3. In logs Barry, who then goes to ask for a mission. Fortunatly he also gets the missions in the order 1 2 3 however the server has changed the order that the missions need to be completed so Barry gets nothing. Thus the system remains fairly unbreakable. ===Well known facts about the Jedi/FS system summerised into a list=== Well this is the only theory I've heard so far that fits the bill without any loopholes from what the devs have said. -it's not random -it's not based on play time -it's not based on experience -it's not based on role playing -it's difficult to achieve -you might not realise how you did it -you might guess cause you nailed it straight away -it's different for every person -everyone has an equal chance of getting it -there are several ways for it to happen -players are able to figure out how it occours ===How this system allows for organic control of the Force sensitive population=== The other interesting point is that there's a very simply way for the devs to lower the chance of being force sensitive should they become too often, they simply add another mission to the lucky combination. So it goes from 123 to 1234 thus dramically lowering the chances even further, plus it can work in the opposite directly by simply lowering the numbers in the lucky combination. So there isn't a fixed limit on the number of them but the chance is lowered organically. The scary thought is that you run the chance of having newbie force users running around. ==The developers official checklist for how the system works== Ok folks, run your theories past this checklist which the devs provided and if it meets all of the criteria then it's possible thats is how the system works: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a reminder, I also want to share a few goals that we have for the Jedi system (most of which have been stated before, it's true): A) Capture the *spirit* of the fiction by making Jedi rare and mysterious. I think we've done this. When the first Jedi start popping up, it's going to be pretty keen. In terms of the "mysterious" part of the equation, even the Jedi herself probably won't know exactly how she got there. B) Create a system that can't be "scooped" and described on a spoiler site in detail. Again, I think this is covered in our current system. No two Jedi will have achieved that status in exactly the same way, and many players who become Jedi might not know exactly how they did so. Even if a player could pinpoint how she became a Jedi, there's no guarantee that another player would receive the title by following the same path. C) Create a system that has the right amount of chance in the right places. We could have opted for a "random" Force tag upon character creation, but then players would just keep creating characters until they became Jedi. We didn't want the flip side of that, where a player is just walking along one day and *ding* they're suddenly infused with the Force out of the blue because they were selected randomly. Chance does play a part in the system, but in a way that makes sense and seems well-balanced (ah, Beta). D) Create a system that's inclusive. No one should be prohibited from becoming a Jedi out of the gate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ===Clarifying that official Jedi statements can refer to force sensitives=== Oh here's a nice little snippet which confirms my suspicions that when they have been saying Jedi they meant Force sensitive and vice versa: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Star Wars Galaxies will have both Force sensitives and Jedi. Up until this point, we've been using the terms interchangeably, but we would like to call out the fact that both types of characters will exist. In my post yesterday, I made mention of "becoming a Jedi will be blah blah blah," when, in fact, it would probably be more correct to state "becoming Force sensitive will be...." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And to end, the correct wording which is the core of the theory. The slot is unlocked by achieving goals (multiple objectives, not single ones) which aren't explained to you at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJeff09 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Tal-N, thanks, I read every word of the post. I deeply thankful of posting in this message board, and I will come back and visit. But where do you get those quotes from the devs? Is in the official SWG message forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 All of the quotes I spent ages digging through what used to be called the Dev Digest for the pre-release SWG official forums. Every single relavent quote from the developers on the subject of the jedi and the FS slot was in there and it only took some time, logic and unbaised thinking to piece it all together. As the devs themselves said after a while, we have been told enough to figure it out for ourselves now. There are various theories about HOW the FS slot is unlocked, but all of the one which meet all of the fact simplify down to that statement i made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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