pbguy1211 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 i dunno... i can OWN with mounties vs mechs. people dont realize how strong they are. put them in that split formation, add a few troops and watch out... i think strikes though are too strong in general as most ppl dont know how to properly defend against them. and they should definately be slowed down a hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 While Sith is on the subject, I shall be starting my SWGB2 outline soon. I may stick it on the web for ease of viewing. It's getting pretty complicated at the moment, I've got plans for uniqueness that make the civs almost as different as civs in StarCraft and WarCraft 3, but with more of a grander, AoM scale, and as much Star Wars authenticity as I can fit. I'm going to start with a game overview, detailing how the game works, then go into civ outlines, accompanied by the reasons I've made some things in particular ways. I'm enjoying this too much... I simply must become a games designer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Look people, you are all going off half-cocked! If you stopped to take a look at my idea, you would see that the Naboo civ retains realism, is balanced when compared to the other civs, and is unique when compared to the other civs. luke - the bomber will be far stronger in SWGB2, and the Naboo keep the N-1 Starfighter. Also, it is YOU who is mixing up mech types, not me. As i said, the Naboo get the fast, light strike Royal Naboo mechs as well as the infantry support gungan mechs. The Naboo are actually the 2nd weakest in Mechs. In respect to strengths and weaknesses, they go- 1. Confederacy strength - Infantry weakness - Air 2. Empire strength - Mechs weakness - Navy 3. Republic strength - Infantry/Mechs/Air weakness - Navy 4. Hutt Cartel strength - Infantry weakness - no Navy 5. Rebels strengths - Air, Infantry weakness - Mechs 6. Naboo strengths - Navy, Infantry weakness - Mechs 7. Federation strengths - Mechs, Infantry weakness - Navy, Air 8. Wookiees strengths - Mechs, Navy, Infantry weakness - no Air Force NOTE: this is very, very simplified, and the actual situation means that no one civ is over-powered. Again, if anyone wants a copy of my latest version of the idea, just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 i like the ideas but are we certain tht there arn't going to be spacebattles and a few new unit types put in for good measure it's going to be a new game i don't know why everybpdy seems to be fixiated on the magic number of 8 civs i think there should be more maybe 10 or 12 i like the ideas for the civ's windu they are very realistic but for some of the civ's they get only one speciality maybe if we do some resaerch we culd maybe AGREE on a happy meduim for civ's instead of finding ourselves spending hours arguing over a minute detail that ends up getting forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 We've discussed civ numbers at length many times already, DK_Viceroy, but that's okay you're new, you weren't to know. We've sort of agreed on 8 or 9 civs, with the only new civ (if any) being the Hutt Cartel, which Sith loves to tell people was on the cards for Clone Campaigns but got scrapped (probably because the realised, like me, that the Hutts don't march to war). Okay now Windu, let's put aside for the moment the fact that you've under-rated the Naboo's Mechs. While the Royal Naboo and the Gungans are allies, they are still vastly different civilisations. They don't in any sense of the word live together as one civilisation. In the game, what would their buildings look like? The beautiful stonework of the Naboo or the organic living buildings of the Gungans? To go without either does injustice to Star Wars, and to stick them together is just plain wrong. If the two are separate, there is room for all sorts of characterful uniqueness - such as the Gungan building's regeneration, building things underwater, "growing" buildings on a Zerg-Creep-like substance called "Swamp" - all these ideas for the Gungans could not be doen with the civs combined, and I've got a few ideas for the Royal Naboo's uniquness that also wouldn't work. It seems silly to me to combine two perfectly unique civs that work well enough separate from each other when it is both unrealistic and unnecessary. To paraphrase Queen Amidala when she forged the Naboo-Gungan alliance: I'm asking you to stop this... no, I'm begging you to stop this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 ok i'll accept that but i'll still be pushing for the Chiss as a civ since i think it would be cool to have them as a civ. I think though that in this though the confedreacy should get mechs as a sepciality since in Ep2 they had a lot more Dwarf Spider Droids, Hailfire Droids and Homing Spider Droids in play then the republic had AT-TE's in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 pbguy-Yeah, strikes are still quite hard to counter late t-2/early t-3. I usually went for grenadiers with a regular trooper meat shield until I got a fort and air speeders. That way, if people ran their mechs in circles, they'd be killed by the troopers, and if they stopped to fight, the grenadiers would get them. But they are way to effective at hit and run raids, and there is nothing really until air that can catch them. windu- Viceroy-there really isnt enough information about the chiss to create a new civ entirely, even from EU stuff. Also, most players are only familiar with stuff found in the original movies, and they would not recognize a chiss (like they would a wookie or an AT-AT) and thus it doesn't appeal to LA's main audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Actually Vostok, merging the Gungans and Royal Naboo only takes away unrealistic forced units, and substitutes them with realistic and balanced units. As i said in another post, the strength of the Naboo is in the Gungan Navy, and indeed the Naboo can build quite a few buildings underwater, which are all gungan designed. The land buildings however are Royal Naboo, exactly as it was in the movies. I agree that the Gungans and Royal Naboo are different civilisations, but in a military sense, they would combine to prevent something like the TF invasion in ep1 from ever happening again. I also have not underestimated the Naboo mechs, which you would see if you took a look at my latest idea version. Finally, this realistic merger of Gungans and Royal Naboo is realistic, and helps gameplay but keeping forced units out, and allowing the unique 'Hutt Cartel' into the game without increasing the number of civs and hence making them less generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 For the love of the Force Windu, you are so wrong! But I see I cannot turn you from the dark path. Once you start down it, forever will it dominate your destiny. You'll just have to wait until I complete my civ outlines so I can show you how the civs can be made without any forced, unrealistic units, while each maintaining the uniqueness and differentiation from each other that the two civs deserve, thereby creating a truly authentic Star Wars experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I'm wondering why the Hutt Cartel and how how would you do it i can't really picyure a Hutt starting a war unless it was on another crime lord and even then it wouldn't turn into much of a war and besides wouldn't the Hutt Cartel be almost entirely EU which i beleive the pair of you have been fighting so hard agaist so you'll have to make up your minds because when i'm around it's one way or no way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 DK_Viceroy: Hutt Cartel isn't EU. Gammorean Guards, Weequay, Bounties...they a lot of materials but some don't really want them. Although I do. and by the way Vostok they gave up the gangster civ because they didn't have enough time before ep2 was released. Forced Units: I don't see how you can make a civ totally without forced units...it makes it very unrealistic and many civs are forced to be combine to have a good enough amount of units. Forced units are necessary for gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Main reason for no Hutt Cartell... They were beaten by 5 people and 2 droids in Ep. VI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Forced Units: I take the term to mean "units that don't fit with the army at all but are necessary to fill in gaps in gameplay." I think with careful enough designing you can create totally characterful units to fill in the gaps in gameplay. My/Sith's/whoever-made-it-up-first's Gungan flak-like machine is just one of these. Giving them a missile launching machine like they had in SWGB1 is a forced unit, but a machine that hurls a big boomah into the air fits with the Gungans perfectly, so by my definition is not forced. pbguy1211: Couldn't have put it better myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Nice Idea for the flak cannon speaking of which i've head of that before though as an upgrade in warcraft 3 the Name itself Hutt Cartel is EU i'm only using this anti EU idea because i'm fed up of people arguing for a civ because they claim it's EU or not 100% Cannon on a game that is made up of mostly EU i'm not going to take snipes at anyone who likes things pure star wars but if they truly are pure than they endorse in EU your no a purist if you only follow the films because the films and the books are the same they are one they are but different faces of the same thing so to deny the EU is to deny star wars and if you truly do that don't bother posting along the same lines as you have since if you disagree with one part of star wars then you disagree with all of star wars and if you do that then say no for every idea bacsue you obvisously don't care about star wars at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 hey would'nt an arbalest shooting boomas or some kind of huge slinger be more realistic then a catapult? DK_Viceroy: EU can and will be ignored on most parts. All games are ignoring EU storylines. At SWK a while ago, some idiotic guy said he would never play KOTOR because it contradicted EU storyline. JKII and JK:JA are also contradicting EU storylines. EU is unimportant in the world of Star Wars game. Ignoring EU is the common thing for purists(including semi like me). Star Wars is created by George Lucas and everyone who helped him in the development(sp?) of the story and script. Those books were not. The books are not canon(except perhaps the novelization of the movies but anyway). The best example is Boba Fett. In EU he is still alive. However Lucas said that in his idea, Boba IS DEAD. Therefore EU does not fit with Lucas' version of what's happening in the SW universe. Games are partly EU for the sake of Gameplay. This does not mean making some crappy EU civ. If some people so want EU civs go mod an entire civ yourself.period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Vostok - with the Hutt Cartel, and im not refering to ONLY Jabba, you get better gameplay becuase the civ is unique, players get to use the evil Hutts, and there would finally be a realistic Tatooine civ in the game. For a planet that is in 5 of the 6 movies its kinda underrepresented here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 They don't have an ARMY or AIR or anything and were beaten by FIVE people and 2 droids in Episode 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 It'S a pretty valid point but hey I think although they got their arses kicked, at least it was by a bunch of heroes, a Jedi and some very lucky droids. They do have some kind of army(just as much as the Naboo have) and they can easily use a small rag-tag fleet for an airforce. Don't underestimate the power of mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Why does everyone think the Naboo's military is non-existent? Am I the only one who saw the end of The Phantom Menace with all the Troopers on parade? They'd kick any military force the Hutts could muster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 Well it's a security force not really a military...a bit like the Hutts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 luke has some good points here, and i think that the Hutts would be more inclined to use military force than the Naboo. I mean, come on, "i wont condone an action that will lead us to war" while they are being invaded! Also, again, Jabba is not the entire cartel, and got cocky by allowing these people into the heart of the operations so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 I'm not necessarily saying the Hutts don't have the ability to wage war, they probably do. But I just can't see them marching to battle. If they were to be included in SWGB2 I think for them to be portrayed realistically they would be kind of like the Goblins in WarCraft 3, in that you pay for their services. They might not go to battle of their own accord, but if the money is right they would certainly march under someone else's banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 The Naboo neither don't look like they would march to war. You know Hutt units are mostly mercs, little hirelings who need money. Like was said in my civ template thread, they would cost credits per x amount of time showing the fact that they're hirelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The hutts may be more inclined to marching into war but the naboo would ACTUALLY march into war the hutt's are out to make money nothing more war's are expensive so why would hutt's go into a war any gains might not pay for the means they just wouldn't have the resources while the Naboo did they had quite a lot of military strength they would have had to considering who there neighbours were and their relationshipo until end of episode 1. o k let's say the hutts were made into a civ someone give me a list of their units equivalent to SWGB 1 civ along the exact same lines and i'll give one for a chiss civ. realistically speaking though jabba got defeated by 1 person and a droid because luke was the one who destroyed the sail barge the rest were just window dressing and were a hindrance not a help and R2 did the most out of the lot not inclusing luke and all he did was chuck a lightsaber though that only happened because mara jade wasn't there i've yet to double check the film but in the background somewhere you can see her lurking . and for EU some is official the stuff that's not official I ignore since it's not worth a second thoughtbecause the official stuff is the stuff that geroge lucas came up with for ideas for episode 7 8 and 9 even if he doesn't make them but realieases a screen play maybe then anything in that screenplay would be cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Queen Amidala : "I will not condone an action that will lead us to war" Captain Panaka : "Our Security Volounteers will be no match for the battle-hardened Trade Federation army" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.