Tyler_Durden Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 What we could do right now is email raven staff and let them know that we would like the first person feature in a patch if it's not already in the final game. It seems that more people are coming out of the woodwork about this thing. I used the commands in the demo, you could do the rolls and acrobatics, and saber locks as well. It seemed very intuitive (to me), which made the game a lot better than outcast from a control and moves standpoint. Almost made me feel as if i was holding those dual sabers. aside from the fact that the skin is not transparent, it boggles the mind why raven didn't put it in there (maybe they did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omikron Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Considering Ravens track recored (on how good their games are) I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't leave out something like that. Anyway, if they did, their is such a large community that is skilled that I'm sure they could put in a First-Person mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaowei Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 <I don't mean playing as yourself in the game. Here's what I mean. Immersion as in "putting you into the role of the character." When I look around the room or sit at my computer or go to class or whatever, I don't see my own back as I run around doing my daily routine. Not unless I'm watching a video feed of a person following me or staring at two mirrors or something odd like that! Rather, I see my hands, and if I look down, the rest of my body, but not my own face (except in a mirror) and not my own back (again, without the aide of a mirror). Last time I checked there were no mirrors in JK, and only one or two in JK2 (the reflective floor in the demo level and that weird thing with Desann splitting into three). The immersion factor is that I see what the character sees. Maybe through the power of the Force, my character is projecting himself outside his own body to view himself, while simultaneously continuing to control his actions as if his vision were unhampered? We can speculate endlessly...> Kurgan, while looking around in your room you also see a bit to the sides (have peripheral vision), hear positional sounds, smell and can touch things on your sides and behind you to orient yourself. From all this, positional audio is partly implemented in games so far. 3rd person is the implementation of the rest (+superior Jedi senses since we talk about JO/JA now). Until you can freelook by moving your head easily at a 180 degrees screen, with force-feedback sensors giving you the equivalent of touch-sense and 20 speakers positional audio, first person view will not be even close to realistic. I think there is no need to speculate endlessly:) The 3rd person view is a crutch to help out the player who is robbed of the larger part of his/her senses. It's effect of showing flashy avatar attacks is a nice addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by Tyler_Durden What we could do right now is email raven staff and let them know that we would like the first person feature in a patch if it's not already in the final game. You would have to email Lucasarts, because Raven does not decide whether there is a patch or not. It is Lucasarts that makes those decisions (as Raven is a contractor and Lucasrts spends the money). Also keep in mind that there is no garruntee that there will even be a patch for JA. I would think they would be a lot more hesitant to make patches this time aorund, after all the foolishness that happened last time. You may have to rely on modders to get something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Since the game is already gold, complaining about this really is wasted energy until we can play the full retail version ourselves and KNOW its in there or not. When I get the game this is one of the first times I will test after setting up. Until you can freelook by moving your head easily at a 180 degrees screen, with force-feedback sensors giving you the equivalent of touch-sense and 20 speakers positional audio, first person view will not be even close to realistic. Agreed. This isn't a Star Trek holo-deck. But first person is still an order of magnitude more realistic than third person viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan But first person is still an order of magnitude more realistic than third person viewpoint. Well, it depends on what aspects you are using to determine if it is realistic (how's that for a vague replay ). In terms of field of view, it isn't, because third person gives you more accurate peripheral vision than first person. This is the aspect that most of us third person users like, because we find first person to have too much tunnel vision. In terms of "seeing with the characters eyes", of course first person is more realistc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler_Durden Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 To me the solution to the peripheral vision in first person would lie in the kind of screen you have. Manufacturers would have to come up with a wide screen that curves towards you like a "C". This way you can see more towards your side and front which, to a point, mimics what natural sight does. Either this or a virtual environment, which will unfortunately take a long time to get into a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 In simplest terms, First Person view is more realistic (I didn't say perfectly realistic) because it places the "sight point of origin" in front of you, rather than far back behind your body facing your back. I don't know of anybody who sees their own back 24/7, but I do know of plenty of people who see forward from their eyeballs... Sort of like Driving in a car. Do you see out your windshield primarily, or do you see a "helicopter view" of the back and roof of your car out in front of you when you drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryScrotum Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 First, thanks to Nemois for his post with the commands for setting a first person view. For those of you who are interested I tried the commands that Nemois suggested and added a few of my own. Try adding the following: cg_thirdPersonCameraDamp 1 cg_thirdPersonTargetDamp 1 cg_thirdPersonVertOffset 4 //4 is just over the head so it does not impede your view cg_thirdpersonrange 0 (default is 80) //Gets the camera on top of the model. //since the camera is close the model doesn't interfere very much cg_thirdpersonangle 180 //For times when you need to use force speed bind a key with this command This will switch you camera angle to forward when the camera swings behind. Only one catch, since your angle is reversed your horizontal axis will be flipped. However, it works in a pinch. Bind another key with cg_thirdpersonangle 0 to set it back to front view. I tried these settings and it made the game much more enjoyable. Coming from the Quake/Unreal world (you know, fists and penises as some would call it ) this is more to my liking than the standard 3rd person view. Hope it helps. Harry S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler_Durden Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Hey thanks a lot for the commands Harry, it should come in very handy when i buy this game tomorrow:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iodius Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 There is no first person view with the saber, nor is there any option to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarJarBinks Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Brodie, if you're talking about the leaked beta I suggest you delete all of the information that you're giving out. If you managed to get the full version early then atleast put the tag around the information you give out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iodius Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I didn't get a leaked Beta or anything, I only have 33.3k internet. An acquaintance of my dad works at the local gamestore (GamesMen) and after me asking very nicely he let me have a copy before they went on the shelves. That was two days ago. I had to pay though ($74.99), but I got it a bit early. Damn coo. I was disappointed initially with the game, thought it was too samey to JO, but once you get past the graphics it really is alot tighter and for a mission based game, the story is really quite good, if not predictable. I do put spoiler tags around the info I give, just that didn't seem to be much of a spoiler. More of a technical tidbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by HarryScrotum cg_thirdpersonangle 180 //For times when you need to use force speed bind a key with this command This will switch you camera angle to forward when the camera swings behind. Only one catch, since your angle is reversed your horizontal axis will be flipped. However, it works in a pinch. Bind another key with cg_thirdpersonangle 0 to set it back to front view. Then, isn't it better to bind those keys to cg_thirdPersonRange 0 and 80? No flipped axis this way Hey, thanks for the credit! What do you think, Kurgan? Should I change my nickname? Seems that no one can spell it correctly when they credit me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaowei Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Sort of like Driving in a car. Do you see out your windshield primarily, or do you see a "helicopter view" of the back and roof of your car out in front of you when you drive? I am just nitpicking, but when I drive, I can turn my head and look around without turning the car around:) Sure, floating around and seeing myself do things from above (in 3rd person games) is weird, but it simulates peripheral vision well. None of the game view perspectives are realistic. They just need to achieve their purpose. First person viewpoint is great for tactical shooters such as Rogue spear. It simulates the squad member viewpoint well. If you watch movies and news coverage, SWAT dudes always run with their back hunched a bit, knees slightly bent, always using the iron view, only looking around when others are covering their back/front/sides. They have less peripheral vision, but they make up for it as a team, everybody has their narrow area of coverage. That is why squad-based games are great with first person perspective - immersion is there, and it works for these games. Games like quake, unreal are different. True, everybody is used to first person in these games, but their very nature (deathmatch, team deathmatch, frenzied action) dictates that the person needs as much peripheral vision as possible to identify flanking threats before taking damage. The reason why third person would be bad for those games would be targeting with guns - it is not well done in third person, although it is quite easy with the targeting reticle. Finally, games that feature melee combat against several opponents just cry for more peripheral vision. In street situations, if I were to look downwards and freeze with fear, I will be robbed and kicked - not just because I cannot fight several guys, but because I cannot run away - I don't see where everybody is situated and will easily be knocked down trying to escape. However, if I freelook, I won't even get into the situation in the first place. The same in JK/JO/JA. I understand that you are not arguing against 3rd person, but first person isn't any more realistic than 3rd person - they just have different purposes in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by gedassan Sure, floating around and seeing myself do things from above (in 3rd person games) is weird, but it simulates peripheral vision well. None of the game view perspectives are realistic. They just need to achieve their purpose. Then you can also use the cg_fov cvar to increase your field of view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaowei Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Nemios, could you give me the steps to use cg-fov cvar in JO? How do I open the console and what do I type in? I am interested in the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by gedassan Nemios, could you give me the steps to use cg-fov cvar in JO? How do I open the console and what do I type in? I am interested in the effect. Sure! - First, open the console with SHIFT+TILDE (that is the key below ESC and next to 1) - Then type CG_FOV to see which is the default value, which I don't remember (maybe 80, you can skip this step) - Last, type CG_FOV 120 if you want to increase your view angle to 120. I think this is the max value, virtually with 360 you could see even around you. - To exit from the console, simply press TILDE again. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Originally posted by Tyler_Durden To me the solution to the peripheral vision in first person would lie in the kind of screen you have. Manufacturers would have to come up with a wide screen that curves towards you like a "C". This way you can see more towards your side and front which, to a point, mimics what natural sight does. Either this or a virtual environment, which will unfortunately take a long time to get into a game. But your solution = $10000+ My third person solution = $0 Originally posted by Kurgan In simplest terms, First Person view is more realistic (I didn't say perfectly realistic) because itplaces the "sight point of origin" in front of you, rather than far back behind your body facing your back. Of course. I'm not trying to argue that first person isn't more realistic in terms of what you see, I'm trying to argue that third person gives you a more accurate peripheral view than first person. This peripheral vision is very useful in FPS games. Originally posted by Kurgan I don't know of anybody who sees their own back 24/7, but I do know of plenty of people who see forward from their eyeballs... True, but I don't know anyone who can only see what is directly in front of them, but I know plenty of people who have some view of what is on either side of them Originally posted by Kurgan Sort of like Driving in a car. Do you see out your windshield primarily, or do you see a "helicopter view" of the back and roof of your car out in front of you when you drive? True, but I don't look exclusively out the front windshield either. I do have to see what is beside me as well. Otherwise every time I switch lanes I may run into something... We are going around in circles. I see your point, but I hope you also see mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Lemme quote this from the JA review from PC Zone - The control System is identical, and as before you automatically drop into third person when you draw your saber (though you can also manually switch perspectives at any time). Well according to them, the sp is sorted might need to use the same thingy that was needed in jk2 for mp to get 1st person in JA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaowei Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thanks for the tip Nemios, looking forward to trying that today:) [back after trying it out] I must have misunderstood you. I typed in the console command and the view stayed third person, just zoomed out further. Of course, cg_fov 120 offers great view of what is going on. I just thought you were referring to widening the field of vision to 120 degrees when in first person point view - dunno how I imagined that, but that is why I wanted to try it. Thanks for the tip anyway. With no peripheral vision, first person melee is a no-no. But when we can have C shaped monitors, it will be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_karma_2one Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 Bump (want someone who works at lucas arts to see this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmolatedYoda Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Originally posted by Bad_karma_2one Bump (want someone who works at lucas arts to see this thread) dude, its not that old, you dont really need to bump it. anyway, youd be looking for someone from Raven to answer your question, not LA (i dont know of any LA employees that actually post here, and i cant remember if emorog is LA or Raven). you might be lucky and get ChangKhan to reply, or you can try PMing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler_Durden Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 This feature is kind of ambiguous right now, as everyone is either playing the game or out buying it. Once i get it later i will post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Any news? Could anyone try CG_FPLS/G_FPLS in MP and/or SP to see if there's a hope to play in 1st person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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