lukeiamyourdad Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 That's about what I can see... Oh wait the repeater gunner. At first it seems ok but again it makes Naboo trooper stronger then they can be. This is arguable though since their absence would make the Naboo trooper very very weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 That's what I thought too. The Naboo Troopers aren't totally incompetent after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Well perhaps you should look for another unit then a repeater gunner. The Naboo don't seem to be really a spread-and-spray kind of civ. They should be concentrating on more accurate shots and less wasting of ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Maybe they should have a rocket trooper then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 A rocket trooper? How is that supposed to be more accurate? I see that the demolition trooper has already been kept for the rebels... Huh...I would have done it the other way around, grenadier for rebs, demolition troopers for naboo. Perhaps a sniper unit could be a good replacement for a repeater. Or some kind of stealthy commando trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Luke - thats why the Naboo in my idea have the Sniper whereas the 'beefier' civs like the Empire get the Repeater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 The trooper we're discussing here needs to be good against either Air or Mechs. A sniper would obviously be good only against Infantry. As for grenadiers and demolition troopers: for starters we see Rebel demolition troopers in the movies (Return of the Jedi blowing up the Shield Generator) so that is a no-brainer. But otherwise I think a demolition trooper type of unit for Naboo would go against their style. Using a demolition charge just seems to "dirty" for the Naboo - I think they'd prefer the cleaner method of long-ranged artillery. You probably don't accept that as a valid explanation, but to me Naboo demolition troopers just doesn't seem right. Ca you picture a guy in his bright red leather armour sneaking in to plant a bomb? This is another reason - the Naboo's preference for bright colours over comouflage - that I think a Sniper or Guerrilla wouldn't be suitable either. So now I've talked myself into keeping the Grenadier, but I will get rid of the repeater guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 :| I think the Repeater guy is actually more naboo-ish then a grenadier... It's artillerry, but not a accurate single shots classy artillery unit. A rocket trooper is actually better then a grenadier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Well yes I do agree with that... that's why I suggested Rocket Trooper before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 We're going around and around and around and around... Anyone got a better idea then a rocket trooper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Well, this is why i have the Rocket Trooper for EVERY civ. That way, they all have a good anti-Mechs and anti-Aircraft trooper. As for Demolitions vs Artillery, i tend to agree with Vostok, but then thats why the Naboo have the Royal Cannon. Also, with Repeater Troopers vs Sniper, i really think a Sniper is much better for the Naboo. It is more elegant, and fits in with the Royal Naboo being a 'Security Force' - i mean really, think of how many police forces have Snipers as compared to Heavy Machine Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Windu: Yes a sniper would be better than a repeater, but the sniper isn't that suitable either. And I don't want to give everyone rocket troopers because that is too generic and when it comes down to it rocket troopers aren't a common enough sight to be generic units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Well, although they woul dbe generic, i really dont see a better option. then, troopers are generic as well, and i dont see a problem there either. Really, if you think about it, having generic rocket troopers even makes sense in a realism way. What better infantry system is there to take out mechs and aircraft? Add to that the fact that similar systems have been used by Bounty Hunter's (Jango) and are in EU and to me that looks like the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 14, 2003 Author Share Posted December 14, 2003 Aside: Exactly why do you consider yourself a Star Wars Purist, Windu? Yes, laser Troopers are Generic, because they are generic in the movies. No, rocket troopers could not be generic because out of the seven civs in the movies precisely zero have rocket troopers. However, giving one or two civs a rocket trooper isn't too bad, because that doesn't make them a generic at all. I think a rocket trooper is suitable for the Naboo, probably more than for most other civs now I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Vostok - you're missing the point. Why are laser trooper generic? Becuase it is cheap and easy to equip a person with a gun and tell them to go and fight. In addition, troopers like that are good at a lot of jobs. Ask yourself then, why would rocket troopers be generic? Becuase it would be a simple way to equip anti-Mech and anti-Aircraft units of various armies. As i said, we've seen Jango use the system, so obviously its practical, and just because we havent seen them in the movies doesnt mean anything. What is there in the movies that is better than a rocket trooper or even close to an anti-Mech, anti-Aircraft trooper? Since we have this lack of options from the movies, i came up with the rocket trooper to fill the obvious gap, and so far, the following have come to the same conclusion as i have- 1. Star Wars EU 2. Star Wars: Imperial Assault (Generals mod) and i'm sure there are others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 14, 2003 Author Share Posted December 14, 2003 In the movies, which you would stick to a lot more if you were a true purist, the task of anti-mech and anti-air is assigned to mechs and air. There might be the odd specialist in one army or another, but generically speaking there is no dedicated anti-vehicular troopers in Star Wars. This obviously wouldn't work in the game, but what it translates to is no widespread generic role of anti-vehicular troopers. Each civ has a different trooper weapon for dealing with vehicles, there is no one right answer. Hence no generic use of rocket launchers. Would the Gungans carry a rocket launcher? Would the Trade Federation bother equipping battle droids with anti-vehicular weaponry when their Mechs are so powerful and can do the job instead? What of the Rebels, surely if they had a great way to counter vehicles they would have used it at Hoth or Endor. If you still believe a rocket launcher is the only way to go for every civ I may have to excommunicate you from the Temple of Purism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Vostok - you are missing the point. Of course every army would have rocket troopers because INFANTRY FREQUENTLY OPERATE WITHOUT ARMOUR OR AIR SUPPORT!!! That is why every army would be equipped with rocket troopers. Aside from that, having infantry armed with anti-Mech and anti-Aircraft weapons would be far cheaper to use than other Mechs and Aircraft. As we saw on Hoth, the AT-AT's were immune to any non-harpoon Rebel weapon, so that absence of rocket troopers there is irrelevant, and as for Endor, they proabably didnt think there would be armour there. Would the Gungans use Rocket Troopers? No. But then thats why in my combined Naboo civ, the Royal Naboo Rocket Troopers provide infantry anti-Mech and anti-Aircraft support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Actually I've seen and heard about alot of Civs using the rocket launcher. And TF used rocket launchers to take out gunships just wasn't shown in the movie it got cut. Windu isn't a purist cause his mind isn't clouded with boundaries and templates based entirely on movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I believe in the movies and most other EU thingies, they use Ion Cannon or weapons to counter mechs. That's not a very good argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 15, 2003 Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Windu isn't a purist cause his mind isn't clouded with boundaries and templates based entirely on movies.Exactly. Only change the word "clouded" with the phrase "remaining pure". But Windu's faith isn't the real issue here. If we want a game that plays just like the battles in the movies (because lets face it, that will be the big draw and will most likely be mentioned somewhere on the back of the box) we cannot have rocket trooper infantry en masse, because that just isn't he case. If Star Wars was a documentary of the real world, then yes, using Windu's real world arguments we could conclude there would logically be rocket troopers. But the truth is Star Wars is only a movie: it is not real. Obviously to capture the feeling of the movie we need to base the game entirely on the movies, not delve into EU or the even further removed real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Well I don't won't a game entirely based on the movies soon you'll be saying for Republic we have to fly to Kamino and order an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 15, 2003 Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Let me clarify for Frozted who seems to have trouble understanding: Battles should look and play like they would in the movies, while army production and resource gathering, while relating to the movies where relevant, mostly follows the standard RTS format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Vostok - i agree, the battles should be like they are in the movies, but then, not all of the battles are possible in an RTS. I mean, seriously, how could you defeat AT-ST's with Ewoks in RTS? Mechs and Aircraft are the best respective counters to Mechs and Aircraft, but it makes no sense for both Realism and Gameplay to leave infantry without an anti-Mech and anti-Aircraft trooper, and the rocket trooper is the best unit for those purposes. As we have seen, EU authors, the creators of 'Imperial Assault' and 'Galactic Battlegrounds' have come to the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Well I have news for you Voscock who loves making himself feel smarter and more superior and talks to people like they are stupid. And for someone to be telling us how a RTS game should work you don't play much RTS yourself isn't that right... You will rarely get your large scale battles cause there is gonna be raiding and rushing and that is not going anywhere in the world of RTS sorry to say.Unless your gonna sit and your ass and you and your opponent are gonna let each other build mass armies and hope you have the best and strongest one its not happening. So basically what your saying is your whole idea of the next game is eye candy you couldn't give a **** how gameplay turns out you just want your eye candy. And just cause you have never been rejected before on these boards like I'm rejecting your ideas now is no need to get all huffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by Frozted_MM's Well I have news for you Voscock I suggest you use valid arguments only and watch your language next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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