A serious review of MP problems (no flames please)

[Side]

Yea i know...but still that would be the only way to kill a FC and that rather pathetic

 

dude just imagine a capper with 2 energizer with protect on?how in the world are u supose to kill him...beside luck

[{DHU}Screed]

Already tried and failed. Its plain and simple that you CANT kill a flag carrier.

[SpaceButler14]

Yeah, I agree, except about the kicking. I've been kicked down, and kicked repeatedly while trying to get up far too many times to want it exactly the same, although some sort of kick as a dfa counter, (if they were to be usable again), would be good. I haven't played enough JA yet to really know, but the duels last forever and I'd like saber damage up all across the board. With FF duels, that's why I mainly played no force duels, and it's rather disappointing that the only way for a serious fight in a jedi game is to ignore the force. If heal and drain were toned down and taken out, it would be much more quickly resolved and all, but how long until it was a lightning spam-war. You don't even really need to aim that.

[Side]

wow that suck....

 

DFA should 1 hit kill still+no force

oh here a nice idea:when u lunge on the ground=no force

if u lunge in mid air=use force

lol that sound cool

kick should be implented(old jk2 kick)with sum difference(u guys think of something like....3 taps on jump to kick?lol)

Saber=stronger please...cuz saber are a joke now

Grip should be like jk2

 

Dark rage and grip sound so useless

[B00thbe]

I do not own the game yet, but it sounds like the mutliplayer is not so good. I would mainly be playing multiplayer, do you guys that have tried it think that it is worth buying this game for playing singleplayer maybe once and then playing multiplayer?

[Poison]

I completely agree with everything that has been said here about the problems with JA multiplayer. Something should be done to make s/o ctf playable, because right now, face it, it isn't.

[BigFurryWhale]

Weiner dog for president!

[the weiner dog!]

Screed change your name bro, that dhu tag is making me gag.

 

 

Serious though, the people who are contributing in these threads were (and in many cases still are) the absolute best players you will find in Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy.

 

You have members from a professionally sponsored clan posting here and members from another clan who just won a major company sponsored tournament involving all of the top competitive clans in Jedi Outcast.

 

I know it may seem like we are "bashing" the game but if anything please keep in mind all these people really are the most knowledgeable resources when it comes to understanding game play mechanics.

 

I don’t think it is a coincidence that not one well known/ranked competitive player has stepped up and taken the side of the argument that this game now "requires more skill" as opposed to it being over simplified like many players from the competitive community have said.

 

Hell, look at the top of this forum. See that sticky about TWL?

 

Now go here:

 

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=104&threadid=82261

 

even the admins of these leagues see a very realistic issue of these leagues and ladders dying a pre mature death due to the across the board disappointment from gamers who play competitively in saber only game types.

 

And while I noticed someone said “we will have to rely on the mod community to fix this” I can’t help but get really annoyed at that premise.

 

There has been a very disturbing trend in retail game releases over the last few years where a sub par product barely past beta phase is released and it is left up to the mod community to fix it, all under the guise of “community involvement”.

[Hatred01]

If you guys want to turn JA into EXACTLY was JO was then go back to playing JO and stfu. Or just take 10 minutes to adapt to the new playing style...which isn't that bad when you get used to it.

[Prime]

Originally posted by the weiner dog!

I don’t think it is a coincidence that not one well known/ranked competitive player has stepped up and taken the side of the argument that this game now "requires more skill" as opposed to it being over simplified like many players from the competitive community have said.

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that Raven/LA likely designed JA so that it was enjoyable for the most possible players. This means casual gamers (likely the largest group?) who do not necessarily care if moves take skill. They want it to be easy to pick up so they can jump in and play right away. I think that it is obvious that that was the way they wanted to go, and that was the way it went. It is unfortunate that you guys are unhappy with it

[{DHU}Screed]

Sorry about the tag , was just to lazy to make another account. Just goes to show ya how long ago I made this acct.

You know whats really funny, http://www.darkhorseunited.com check out their poster boy screenshot

 

 

Again, I agree 100% with weiner dog.

 

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that Raven/LA likely designed JA so that it was enjoyable for the most possible players. This means casual gamers (likely the largest group?) who do not necessarily care if moves take skill. They want it to be easy to pick up so they can jump in and play right away. I think that it is obvious that that was the way they wanted to go, and that was the way it went. It is unfortunate that you guys are unhappy with it

 

So your saying JA was given a Teen rating b/c they were attracting the 5-9 year olds who cant hit more than 1 button at once? Your statement makes no sense. They decided to go with the casual gamers aspect, when they are the ones to abandoned the game first b/c it got "old"?

[Prime]

Originally posted by {DHU}Screed

So your saying JA was given a Teen rating b/c they were attracting the 5-9 year olds who cant hit more than 1 button at once? Your statement makes no sense. They decided to go with the casual gamers aspect, when they are the ones to abandoned the game first b/c it got "old"?

Casual gamer does not equal 5-9 year olds. It's people who don't give a rats ass about winning ladders or whether the kata requires skill or not. It's people that play the game for fun. They could be 30 year olds. Many of them probably won't touch MP. In any case it is the majority of players, which means the majority of customers, which means the majority of money spenders. And whether they abondon the game one day after or five years later doesn't make an once of difference to Lucasarts because they all bought the game. They make the same money regardless.

[cheeto101]

yeah, i def agree that JA is geared for a larger audience of people who just like to sit down once in awhile and bust out a saber.

 

Personally, to all the hardcore players, id suggest playin JO for the next month or so, and im sure theyrll be a few mods that will satisfy your every need. I meed, most members of the modding comunitee are hardcore gamers like yourselves (heh they have to be to create mods, takes alotta time) and im sure theyre prob not happy with the way JA is now either.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Catalyst

If you guys want to turn JA into EXACTLY was JO was then go back to playing JO and stfu. Or just take 10 minutes to adapt to the new playing style...which isn't that bad when you get used to it.

 

RTFFP

 

To the entire drain rant, two syllables. ab-sorb ^.^ (and you can't hide for ever Luke.. eh.. weiner, you'll have to come out and fight like a man XD)

 

RTFFP

 

Tesla: RTGDFFP

 

Ahem... Now that I got that out of the way.

 

With the lack of kick and the nerfing of certain powers (Who in their right mind would throw an LOS restriction on force grip?), it became blatantly apparent that the saber is going to have to do the talking. However, the three most obvious problems right now with the saber is lack of damage capability, overabundance of blocking on blows which should make past, and pretty ****ty hit detection (you do three katas in a row, only to find that they don't connect at all while the guy humps your leg).

 

Oh, did I fail to mention force costs for specials? I will reiterate what I said earlier, in which I could see a justifiable FP cost for DFA provided its power is upped, and the same could go for the rest. However, right now the risk is not worth the reward. For 25 FP, I can fly upside down, completely miss a person, then get a free chance to be introduced to Bubba at the prison cell. Its just not WORTH IT.

 

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to add my suggestions...

 

1.) In terms of saber damage, a damage scale needs to be established as to which while the saber is not ultra-lethal, you know you're ****ed if you take a shot from an overhead red slice.

 

2.) We need to find a way to tone down the blocking factor. If you know you got a good hit, you should score it. This especially goes for back attacks, and the block bug still exists in that department.

 

3.) Remove specials FP cost, or up their power (and whose bright idea was it to throw a cost on roll stab?). Keep kata's force cost at 50.

 

4.) Saber hit detection is Raven's field, not ours, but it definetly needs help. I thought we would have this **** worked out by now.

 

Its funny that all the people coming in here now who are telling the people who knew how to play JKII to its full potential to STFU wouldn't have even a hint of what happened in the competition scene.

[NITEMARE]

i am not a very competitive player or a force fan from JO. but you guys are serious and the top of the player pool, so it makes sense debating with you rather than with those fanboys.

i tried playing JO with forces but it made no sense. this drain thing was just to strong, and so it still is in JA. while i agree to many of the "weiner dog" gangs statements, i don't agree with the following:

 

changes like force using specials or KATAS are bad.

kicks like they were back in JO should get back in JA.

 

i am a so player so i would have to say, that all these new features sound very nice and logicaly. ok the damage thing was a problem before and i would have to play on servers with high damage cvar. the kicks destroyed gameplay before and now only saber staff players can kick, and they are vulnerable while doing it! the same with specials like the red dfa and the backstabb/slash. not that i wasn't on of the first in our community (germany) to ever use those moves. it was a matter of hours and i already pissed off everybody who did not addapt to it.

so raven took my ideas (heh just common sense, not that i was asked by them) and made specials depending on the force pool. that solves the spaming. ok they don't realy have a clue about damage, i always had to change that myself for our servers. the thing you guys are complaining is that public servers don't have it and waiting for mods as salvation, which is a crippled bitch btw, takes 4ever...

 

ok here comes the sollution which i think should do it:

g_saberRestrictForce

problem is, it's cheat protected. ARGH!

otherwise it would be realy nice to test it on public servers. to see if it works correct and how it changes gameplay. for those of you who don't know about it: no force use while the saber is on except KATA and special moves...so much for the theorie.

so go check it out, turn cheats on and play duel with ff. everytime a player wants to drain/heal or what ever he has to holster his saber.

 

in the end, public servers remain unplayable for me as a purist and a powergamer. so are leagues ofcourse, since those never support mods or other settings than defaults...to please most players...

[razorace]

I'm going to toss my two cents in here.

 

First off, based simply on the opinions of this board, Raven would have a hard time changing ANYTHING in the game. Whenever Raven has made a change, people whine about it. They fix the DFA, people whine. They fix backstab, people whine.

 

Secondly, by boosting the saber damage you're only going to run into the problem with random blocking. Basically, it's random. Sure, there's some level of skill in flanking your enemy and cutting him down but the saber blocking system in JK2 (and I assume JKA) basically blocks (with a random faction) everything you can from your point of view.

[NITEMARE]

oh yeah i forgot about that! higher the damage makes the accuracy worse. or better say it makes you realy aware of how inaccurate it is. if one swing make much damage and it doesn't count although it looked like you hit the guys, man you're pissed. the same for blocking, if somehow a swing gets thru, ARGH. that's why they alwas try to tone damage down since 1.03...

[razorace]

Well, that's partially why the damage has always been toned down.

 

1. Because the saber blocking is far from perfect (not a knock against Raven. I know they did it that way for a number of good reasons.)

 

2. Because noone really wants to die when a lucky hit cuts off their left big toe and kills them.

[megafu]

(sigh) returned my copy today. Thank you Raven for putting out the worst sequel to a game possible. I use the word sequel lightly.

 

oh.. side note, dark side owns lide side in this game bigtime.

[Rad Blackrose]

No, light rocks... Oh wait, I was beating up half of SiN tonight, that was why. *eyeroll*

 

EDIT: BTW, just to give you a fair warning and advice, if you're running an s/o server, and you have a high force regen setting, you better be ready to see some high dual saber kata spammage... Pretty sad I had to leave a server whose clan I know real well because it was reduced to spammage of one move.

[Rumor]

thanks for the good, well thought out post, nitemare.

 

although i do have to disagree on a lot of that, i am too tired for a rebuttal.

[[div3rse.syn]]

First, I have to say this to cheeta101 (or whatever your name is):

 

I consistently see you posting in every single thread (be it constructive or not) that we (the competetive players of JK2) should give JKA more time. You neglect to read ANYTHING that ANY of us say, and simply say we have not LEARNED this game.

 

You know what I have to say to you? The main thing most of us are griping about is the fact that to play JKA...you don't need to learn ANYTHING. The new moves take approximately 30 seconds for anyone familiar with doing a dfa (red or yellow) from JK2 to learn. Besides the new kata's, the 2 new saber types (dual and staff) aren't in any way significantly different than the old sabers. Before you go and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about...just shut your face. I started playing JK2 well later than anyone else that I've ever talked to...I was probably the last person to *get good* at JK2. Ask FK if my capping skills were up to par with 1/4 as much experience as them when Div3rse took a server from them. Ask anyone on div3rse, RK, ms3, NJS, FK, eF, or any of the other clans that stuck it out with JK2 and kept playing until the release of this game. I learn fast. There's NOTHING to learn in JKA.

 

Anything that made JKO fun has been taken out and replaced with useless stuff. It's insane.

 

So far, I've seen that the *major* argument for these new changes has been that the *average* gamer doesn't give 2 ****s whether or not moves take skill to perform. Yes, good point. Now explain to me why the game can't have any sort of depth to it that would allow for competetive play. Explain to me how taking Kick out of the game makes it *easier* for your average gamer to play. The biggest problem for noobs coming to JK2 was that they would learn a stance's special move and spam it like crazy. That's all I see in any gametype server that I've been into in JKA. Lot's of Kata's going off in all directions. Thing I don't see is anything at the top of the screen saying "I8uRmOM has been sabered by DrTHV@D3R" or the like. Why? Because all the noobs are running around doing flashy moves that DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Sure, someone connects with a random kata sometimes and somebody does...but it's a noob server. How is that any different from JK2? Well, in most public servers in JK2, the same sort of thing existed. Lots of noobs having fun spamming DFA's left and right. By putting limits on the moves and such, you take out the "fun" element for noobs. They LOVE their flashy, useless moves. Thing is, in jk2, there was another level of depth that you could LEARN, and become BETTER than a noob. For the elite, there is no depth to learn. There is no way to become better than a noob because the only thing you can do is flail around and hope to get lucky. It's horrible for any sort of competitive play.

 

The way I look at it is this: The average gamer won't notice the difference if kicks are in the game, if sabers did more damage, or if anything else us elites want changed got changed. Why? He doesn't care. But if Raven wants to have any sort of LONGEVITY in this game, they need to cater to the competition. Why are games like CS, Q3A, etc. still around when they're much older? Those communities CATER to the competition, because the noobs can still dick around and have fun, but there's something THERE for elite people to play with.

 

My area of expertise:

Capping. I know how to cap. And you know what? The ONLY way I'm going to die in JKA when I have the flag is if I get a lag spike and somehow fly off an edge. Why? Sabers are too easy to avoid, kata's are even easier, and there are no kicks to slow you down, so literally, there's nothing you can do to kill me. Sadly, it's not because I'm a good capper (and in jk2 1.04, I am). It's because given 2 seconds of practice, anyone will notice that the simple role of capper by definition will make you invulnerable. Come again? Simple. A capper's job is to run to the flag platform, and run back to the base. No dicking around, just run. Therefore, NOBODY will kill you because nobody can hurt you unless you stand still...and you won't be...so have fun with those 80 minute 0-0 ctf games.

 

Anyways, I had to add my peice to this mess...it's probably not coherent because it's late at night, but whatever, I'll clear it up later

[razorace]

Uh, why play sabers only CTF anyway? The very nature of the sport requires you have have faster runners or guns that can shoot the runners down.

[NITEMARE]

ctf without forces and weapons makes little sense. we tried it once but it was a real mess. the best thing was to turn on jedivsmerc, in our mod the mercs had better weapons like the disruptor sniper and mines & explosives...

[Comm539]

Well said syn agree 100%

 

razorace you people are so hipocritical. You say 'this is Star Wars, we focus on sabers' then you go and say shoot him with a dock off gun. We play s/o becuase it requires some skill (or did). Guns are for unskillied spamwhoring aimbot people to use.

Why don't ff duelers duel with rocketlaunchers? Maybe they want sabers. Maybe we want sabers in ctf and atm, ravens removed everythin that requiered some skill in JO and replaced it with NOTHING, or a kata. gj.

I still reckon servers could get the otpion to turn individual things on/off like los gripping, kicks, ptk etc. That way other game types keep the stuff they don want out and the competetive community can have it and prolong whats turning out to be a short lived game.