A serious review of MP problems (no flames please)

[AxVegetA]

Originally posted by Rumor

and you call me pathetic?

 

do you realize how much of a time investment it is when you have to hand feed 16 pups every three hours, since the day they were born? you are the most pathetic excuse for a human being i've ever seen. Dr. Kevorkian really looks to be a nice guy now...

 

do i need to spell out the second part for you in third grade english? it means "<sarcasm> yeah, i have no life </sarcasm>"

 

notice the sarcasm tags. that means i'm being facetious, aka I"M SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

and you seriously have the gall to say i'm pathetic because i have a life that doesn't revolve around a starwars game?

 

get a life.

 

ROFL

 

"you are the most pathetic excuse for a human being i ve ever seen", lol what is that suposed to mean, and i am absolutely sure you didnt mean that with sarcasm.

And who the f-uck is Dr Kervokian?

 

And well, "Too many puppies".

[Rumor]

Originally posted by AxVegetA

ROFL

 

"you are the most pathetic excuse for a human being i ve ever seen", lol what is that suposed to mean, and i am absolutely sure you didnt mean that with sarcasm.

And who the f-uck is Dr Kervokian?

 

And well, "Too many puppies".

 

my last post just explained why you don't know who he is. not to mention how you have no idea what we are speaking of.

 

i suggest you learn to respect your fellow poster and not flame every chance you get. it just shows you to be dumber, and gets you one step closer to a ban...

[Doctor Shaft]

I see what you're getting at Prime. To be honest, I'm not a 'fan' of the kick system either, but it's there, and I always felt that amidst the constant saber spamming, etc., there has to be at least one or two good, solid moves to counter it.

 

Unfortunately, kick ended up being more than just a good counter. On the other hand, if it makes the game deeper, and doesn't entirely ruin the experience for me, i'm all for it.

 

I'm more of a casual guy myself as well. I won't try to make things work for me when the game seems to be generally not fun. However, kicking never annoyed me to the point where I felt it was just plain wrong. It was part of the game, and it seemed a necessary part.

 

The only REAL way to have a good game like S/O CTF without kicks would be to just completely revamp, reimplement the saber system. That would probably mean that even some of the stances, like Red stance, would have to be just redone, and the moves would all have to be geared towards just being able to gut a person if they run. That's not what exists though, and it won't exist, that's probably just too hard to do. So, we all turn to good ole kick. And some other things of course.

[Jello123]

doctor shaft understands too much of teh saberists o.o

 

him > all

 

he is teh 2 cool.. lol

[AxVegetA]

Originally posted by Rumor

wow, i think you must be the biggest tool i've ever seen.

 

i don't report posts that insult me, asshat, i reply to them.

 

and since you obviously have no clue as to who is playing jo, you obviously don't know that ALL of the s/o ctf clans still play it when they aren't spending a couple hours at a time trying to find new ways to kill cappers. not to mention some of the oldschool, for lack of a better word, "elite" ff/so duelers have been playing it as well.

 

you said you could own me, so i challenged you, not my fault that you backed down. go ask your mother for money so you can go to the movies with your friends, i'm sure she doesn't mind giving her live-at-home 30 year old son who has the mental capacity and maturity of a three year old anything he wants.

 

About the reports i was talking to divex.

 

And i dont have a clue about who is playing JO now?

Oldschool and l33t players just stopped playing it after a year it was released (aproximately), now i see why you all consider elites and pros, because 90 percent of the people dont play JO anymore, lol.

 

My opinion of JA is, PLAY THE DEMMN GAME, and wait for a goooood patche that hopefully make the game more fun and less disapointing.

If JA turns to be like JO (with a lot of ****ed patches) it would be all your fault, for crying about stuff that was fun, but no real or balanced.

I really hope that with this features MP would be more saber fighting and less pull push kick dfa whored.

Just think about, for a second, how diferent you played JO 6 or 12 months after you first played it.

With that i mean, PLAY THE DEMMN GAME

[[fk]myth.]

Prime, glad you posted something that isn't a flame, unfortunately I'm going to sleep and will read it in the morning.

 

As for AxVegetA, Why are you here? Did you not read this post or just saw the topic and assumed this was your chance to act cool. This thread was made for people who wanted to discuss MP problems seriously, hence the name. Flames are not welcome, hence the name again. Why are you here flaming us saying we suck and you own us when you haven't played JK2 since February and you haven't even bought JKA. You haven't even played this series since back at the start of the year, and you aren't even an avid FF S/o CTF Player (again, why are you here?) So don't come mouthing off to all of us who are trying to have a discussion thinking your the bad ass of the forums and think before you act like a complete moron and everyone laughs at you. Talk about EGO! I'm personally going to enjoy playing with you, and if you want my in-game name take a look at my username. And, please, reply to this if you must, but after that leave and never reply to a post in this thread again because you are not wanted.

[Guardian Omega]

Oooh boy, there's another one that didn't read everything........

 

They're asking for an option that'll make the changes toggable......

 

*reads last post*

 

Well, he has the name of Vegeta, aka the ego manic that gets his ass kicked in most of DBZ.

[Rumor]

not one thing we've said has sunk into that walnut sized head of yours, has it? WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT FREE FOR ALL. WE ONLY CARE ABOUT THE GAMETYPES THAT WE, NOT YOU, PLAY.

 

have a field day posting about how we have no lives, kid, i doubt i'll reply to anything else since what needs to be said has been said.

 

have fun stepping closer to that ban.

[AxVegetA]

Originally posted by Rumor

my last post just explained why you don't know who he is. not to mention how you have no idea what we are speaking of.

 

i suggest you learn to respect your fellow poster and not flame every chance you get. it just shows you to be dumber, and gets you one step closer to a ban...

 

Ohhh and now you are playing the Good guy after talking crap, in the first pages of the thread, to the guys who "difered" from your opinion.

 

And you really think people is gona read 40 lines of shi-t, save me the time.

 

And because of you, and the one who started the "OMG, MP sux" thread, all my espectations for JA are gone, i am getting a game i lose excitment on.

Thats all you gain with your negative opinions about the game, to disapoint eveybody who reads it about MP and you too.

One thing is constructive criticism and another is crying like a baby because now you cant own as in JO.

[[div3rse.syn]]

Originally posted by Pyro

kicking is dumb learn some skill noobies

 

 

All I have to say to you, is that I would beat the living christ out of you in any gametype, any day. Why? Because if you think kicking is noobtacular...you don't deserve to own JK2 or JKA. How about you read any of the posts made in this topic and shut your face?

 

That being said, everyone keeps hitting on the fact that JKA = game for casual gamer. NO ****ING ****. My question is - was JK2 1.04 THAT difficult for your average gamer to get into? NO. If Raven wanted to cater to the average gamer, they could've added in their flashy new kata's and changed the animations around and the newbs wouldn't have noticed a thing. The rest of us would get a revitalized JK2 to compete in...and everyone is happy. Instead, Raven ignores the part of the community that keeps it ALIVE...good call. Sure, the casual gamer represents the majority and all...but the competitors are the ones that get the spot light on the game - that is good PR, that is what gets your next game hyped upon, and THAT is good game making.

[Jello123]

you dont play s/o ctf vegeta..why do you care

 

go buy it if you want

 

siege and powerduel aint bad

[SuperNub]

And dude, report all you want, its not my prob that you are a sisy, unless you are a girl in which case it all makes sense, and therefor i apologise.

 

Whats with people like this? ..lets see, for one the topic blatantly asked not for flames. Two, if you're going to attempt to flame someone learn how to spell above the 2nd grade level. And third, isn't calling somone a dork and saying they have no life over an internet forum extrememly hypocritical?

 

Thats like me being on a float for a gay pride parade and calling everyone I see fags. Please, grow up kiddo.

 

I'm sure your ego has been smashed many of times, as it can be seen by your horrid insults and obvious insecurities. I feel sorry for you, really. Just another person who got their ass beat time and time again in JO and take it out on people who are better then them and insult them?

 

Maybe you should get laid, or take a long look in the mirror. Either way, I think your own insults should be fired upon yourself as it seems to fit you more so then anybody else here.

 

gf

[Rumor]

Originally posted by [div3rse.syn]

All I have to say to you, is that I would beat the living christ out of you in any gametype, any day. Why? Because if you think kicking is noobtacular...you don't deserve to own JK2 or JKA. How about you read any of the posts made in this topic and shut your face?

 

That being said, everyone keeps hitting on the fact that JKA = game for casual gamer. NO ****ING ****. My question is - was JK2 1.04 THAT difficult for your average gamer to get into? NO. If Raven wanted to cater to the average gamer, they could've added in their flashy new kata's and changed the animations around and the newbs wouldn't have noticed a thing. The rest of us would get a revitalized JK2 to compete in...and everyone is happy. Instead, Raven ignores the part of the community that keeps it ALIVE...good call. Sure, the casual gamer represents the majority and all...but the competitors are the ones that get the spot light on the game - that is good PR, that is what gets your next game hyped upon, and THAT is good game making.

 

lol every post about how kicks suck, etc that pyro has made is total blatant sarcasm. if i didn't know him, i would think he was for real, too.

[AxVegetA]

Originally posted by SuperNub

Whats with people like this? ..lets see, for one the topic blatantly asked not for flames. Two, if you're going to attempt to flame someone learn how to spell above the 2nd grade level. And third, isn't calling somone a dork and saying they have no life over an internet forum extrememly hypocritical?

 

Thats like me being on a float for a gay pride parade and calling everyone I see fags. Please, grow up kiddo.

 

I'm sure your ego has been smashed many of times, as it can be seen by your horrid insults and obvious insecurities. I feel sorry for you, really. Just another person who got their ass beat time and time again in JO and take it out on people who are better then them and insult them?

 

Maybe you should get laid, or take a long look in the mirror. Either way, I think your own insults should be fired upon yourself as it seems to fit you more so then anybody else here.

 

gf

 

ROFL

Dude, where to start, if you where touched by my words i am sorry (i am not really), i didnt said all that for nothing, i think i made my point in my last post.

 

My gramar is because i speak spanish.

 

I am not dork, but you sure are, and i dont think forums are for dorks, but for people who like games, specially a game i ve been wanted for a long time. IS that wrong?

 

About my ego, rofl, i am the one who smashes YOU.

 

And whats the problem with my insults, besides the fact it bothered you, hahaha (what an idiot).

 

Insecurities? lol

Kiddo?

 

My insults should be fired upon myself? cant you be anymore original? kiddo?

-stupid

-you are the stupid

 

And i wasnt talking to you in first place, you piece of ****, you dont worth it.

All i know from you is that you are named supernub.

 

Next time if you feel emotionally touched about that, reply to your wall.

 

hehe

[Rumor]

look, its desnipa v3.0 / apockalypse/unwanted v2.0!

 

I am #1 and that is how it will stay

U WER OWNT BAI MY WERdS GG

O

W

N

E

D

 

^ all classic quotes from the two of them.

 

now for christs sake stick to the topic at hand.

[DeliriumenD]

Y'know, the first post asked for constructive criticism, and so the majority of my post IS going to attempt to be constructive and address things (the constructive arguments I've seen) in it. And I apologize to all the people having a good discussion for all the caps about to follow this before my addition to the discussion.

 

YOU ELITIST A-HOLES (BOTH COMPETITIVE PLAYERS AND THE STARWARS FANBOYS(YES i'M IN THIS GROUP FOR JA) ) NEED TO SHUT UP AND LEARN HOW TO DEBATE WITHOUT INSULTING EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T YOUR WAY. HOW MANY DAMN TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SEE A GOOD POST WITH A GOOD DEBATE GET TURNED INTO A FLAME FEST BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT? IT'S POINTLESS, PATHETIC, AND A WASTE OF TIME I'M JUSTIFYING BY RESPONDING IN KIND, BUT I'M NOT PERFECT!!!

 

Now, for my additions to the debate.

 

On kick, I know why this was probably pulled out. It was very annoying for the casual gamer (who makes up the majority of gamers now sadly) to join a public server, and basically not have a chance to have fun because of people grip throwing them off cliffs, and when they weren't doing that, kicking them again and again until they died. Now you guys have a point about how it kills the high competitive side, but at the same time pissing off 60% of your player base, hell, pissing off 51% of your player base is an even worse thing to do.

 

I want to clarify again that I read the first post, and I still feel that while saber damage SHOULD be raised, kick, non-line of sight grip, and the other stuff you guys are asking for should be made togglable. You people say noone does the toggles, but then again you are also basing all of your arguments on your elite-level (not the sarcastic elite, I am sure you guys know what you're talking about when you say which groups are elite. Much like I did when I played TRIBES (not 2, we had our "JA" in the Tribes series with 2) ) games between the best of the best in the competitive league. So really, it shouldn't be hard with the toggles. The leagues can just get the rules that these things have to be turned on for the matches, and then when you guys are playing your competitive matches on each other's servers, you will have the server the way you want. Your own servers can also easily be left that way for you guys to pub on (we had the 5150 server, and Cheaters Wayside and such for Tribes left like that, where the people from the top 10-20 (elites of the tribes) all pubbed together)

 

Barring that, and if the togglables absolutely won't work (which I don't believe, as the hard core gamer group server admins normally know how to safely modify a config file or two) then I would have to suggest the following compromises to some of what you want.

 

Give back the double tap kick, only have it only do knockdown. This solves the CTF FF/SO problem, as now you guys can knock down the FC and pummel him/her on the ground. At the same time, joe average doesn't have to worry too much, as the games ground controls give him a shot with panicked mashing of not being too punished. It also helps negate the problem casual gamers had gripes with of being kicked to death by a move they didn't understand (as it was on the higher end of that steep learning curve that the casual gamer rarely reaches) but was being used to ruin their ability to have fun.

 

Weaken drain a bit, and make heal work like it does in single player (where it progressively drains your force and ups your health) This should stop people from spamming it to make duels go on forever, and will also give the person chasing the healer a chance to finish the fight off before the heal is fully effective.

 

I agree on removing the force cost on the regular (the JO) specials.

 

Maneuverability needs to be given to the kata's and the DFA. Kata's, you should be able to move while doing them. I've seen them used well in duels and powerduels, but these were bouts of casual gamers, and being able to move (even if restricted somewhat) would up their value to the competitive side, while not harming, and in fact making the casual game more fun. For the DFA, I don't want the spin back, but at least reduce the pause where they're vulnerable to half, after which time they can roll to avoid an attack coming in at their exposed back.

 

Roll needs to be sped up as well, The thrust move that was added onto it, is nowhere near as effective as I think it was planned to be because of the fact that if your target starts backpedalling when you start rolling, they'll be safely out of range before the attack even goes off.

 

And as I already said, the saber needs a bit more damage, and the blocking system and hit detection need tweaking.

[[div3rse.syn]]

ah, k.

 

I retract that part of my statement.

 

About Vegeta:

SuperNub just shat on your head. I need say nothing more.

 

 

 

 

Let me just explain one more thing before I go into why I'm actually making this post - The reason kicks are needed in CTF (or at least WERE needed in JKO ff/so ctf) is because it's simply too easy to run away as a FC, and there's basically no way to slow the FC down (a good one, anyways. See, here's the difference between JKO FCs, and JKA FCs - One needs skill to keep ahead of the defenders. The other...doesn't. Take a guess which is which), hence, you're left 2 options (3 if the FC sucks). The first option only works if he sucks - Pull/Push whore him and make absorb slow him down. Why does it only work if he sucks? Well - a good one will turn and push you giving him a few seconds to run from you while you're stunned. GG that idea. Second idea - bypass slowing him down and use a combination of rage and speed to run past the FC and nail him as he goes by. This got more and more popular as FCs got better at avoiding the kicks. Third option, and the absolute most popular: Kicking the FC so that their health would go down, they'd get slowed down, and they'd be forced to use Heal to counteract some of the kick/saber damage. Plus, Kicking would allow your teammates to swarm the FC and saber the crap out of him.

 

Now - why is Kick necessary if the other 2 options are around? Well, your first option is still there...but due to the nerfing of saber damage and the lack of kicks...even if you *slow* the FC down...he's still going to get away because you can't kill him. Add that this only works on bad cappers... Option 2 is also *technically* there, but you can't really do anything with rage/speed in this game...so you could try just raging...and not be able to do enough damage to kill him...you could try just speeding and your problem is the same.

 

SO, what are we left with? Any one who knows which way their base is can cap on just about anyone no matter what the difference in skills...awesome.

 

Anyways, I feel like it's not that KICK needs to be in this game - just a way to kill the capper, be it kick, upped saber damage, or SOMETHING implemented to make returning easier. It was hard enough to return against someone good (such as myself) in competitive games back in JKO. Watch the match between [div3rse] and [Fk] to see the 2 best clans at the end of JKO's life duke it out - the FCs on both teams RARELY died, even though all the returners playing were AWESOME at their job. It's simply too easy to run away and heal and too difficult to deal damage quickly. In JKO this was manageable because sabers did chunks of damage, moves didn't take force, and kicks could wear down their health so that a swing or two could kill them. My suggestion is that EITHER saber damage needs to go up, OR kick needs to be put back in. Preferably both, but with all these nublets crying about how much it sucked, or how much it wasn't Starwars like...I don't know. But I do have this to say - What's so "starwars-like" about hitting someone with a saber and them not dying? Answer me that...

[Rumor]

thanks for the civil contribution, DeliriumenD.

 

we (the competitive players) do all we can to keep from flaming, but its thrown at us and being used to people **** talking all the time, throw it right back at times.

[Jello123]

you forgot gg syn

[DeliriumenD]

Meant to say this in the other post, but it's seperate enough.

 

The biggest problem facing the Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy games though, is the fact that the community is at odds with itself, which is sadly a side-effect of what the game is.

 

It is a Star Wars game, with all the bells and whistles of the Star Wars universe. You play a jedi, you kick ass with a lightsaber in the game. It is as much a Lightsaber/Jedi simulator as anything else, and as such, it's every Star Wars fans dream to play as you can either play like Han Solo and Chewie, or like Luke Skywalker depending on your mood.

 

On the other hand, it's a First Person Shooter with online team based capabilities and the obligatory CTF and such that goes with that. Whats more, the inclusion of the Star Wars universe gives a neat twist here and there to make it a unique game for Competitive play.

 

So, we now have the Star Wars fans going head to head with the First Person Shooter crowd (who are pretty much the most vocal and elitist bunch online..not to offend, but it seems to be the truth). The Star Wars fans want a game they can have fun playing in, where they can live their life and still have fun and kick some butt online with a lightsaber.

 

The first person shooter crowd wants a game where the hardcore gamers and competitive crowd is given what it needs to thrive. Where people have so much in the game they think nothing of spending all their freetime perfecting the best and quickest route from flag stand to flag stand so they can get back while exposing themselves to minimal danger.

 

Sadly, these two crowds both think (and are right in a sense) that their way is the right way. After all, it's a Star Wars game, so you should be able to kick ass in a Star Wars way that is accessible to nearly everyone, much like the movies are. But it's also a FPS which is a type of game that is quite competitive as well, and has some of the fiercest group rivalries I've ever seen online.

 

This gives the Developer a very tough choice, as no matter which way they turn, guess what, half the players (about) aren't going to be happy. So what do they do then? I hope they make a lot of togglables. Good servers with the toggles you like can be found, favorited, and visited often. Other servers can be ignored.

[JaledDur]

Ooooo this is so cool. Keep it up, please. I'm trying to formulate a way to effectively harness all this energy. So far it can power one computer -- I'm posting on it now!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

 

.....

[[div3rse.syn]]

See ladies and gentlemen? It can be done.

 

DeliriumenD, you are a polite guy and I respect your opinions because of it.

 

I feel like you make a few good points, but a minor tweak - the double tap kick (just kick from here on) should be added back in, but I feel that making it knock down every time would make it MORE frustrating for people new to the game. That's the most frustrating part of the kick...the knockdown. Instead, I feel that it should SLOW the target down somewhat, doing SOME amount of physical damage (maybe not as much as in JKO, but not like 5 hp worth), and should knock down LESS frequently than in JKO. Sometimes I felt like I would get kicked 7 times, and 6 of those would result in knockdowns...that, is frustrating.

 

 

I do have to disagree with you on one point - There IS a valid way to compromise between competitive players and regular, casual gamers. JKO 1.04 was this compromise. It offered an amount of depth that would let people compete in it, but could still be able to let newbies run around and have fun.

[[div3rse.syn]]

anyone else not know what to make of jaleddur?

[Rumor]

most of us aren't that eliteist, we just don't like pretentious bastards who think that they know everything about everything, yet have no real clue as to the game and engine mechanics. two people who know the kicking system from jo better than anyone would be Break_dF and =X=IdiotSavant. Break was a ff/so dueler, and most likely the best. Idiot was one of the best d's in s/o ctf. many would rather face 5 other people when capping, than face just him.

 

most of the time we will stop and teach someone how to do something *if they ask and do not bitch about how its lame or gay. although when this happens day in and day out all the time for a year and a half, people do get irritated when it happens because it happens so much. it just gets annoying sometimes to have dozens of people begging you to train them and kissing your ass, then turn around and act big and bad if they get a lucky kill once in a while, or if they say no (if they respond).

[DeliriumenD]

Originally posted by [div3rse.syn]

I do have to disagree with you on one point - There IS a valid way to compromise between competitive players and regular, casual gamers. JKO 1.04 was this compromise. It offered an amount of depth that would let people compete in it, but could still be able to let newbies run around and have fun.

 

My experiences with 1.04 were quite limited (embarassingly enough I lost my CD when I moved, couldn't find a NO CD thing that wasn't virused, and then got caught up in other games).

 

The double tap kick is what I meant btw with what I said. And I suppose what exactly the kick does is probably what'll take the most amount of debate over (the right amount of damage, whether it'll bypass shields, and the knockdown percentage).

 

As for being polite, I try to be. And with this game I think I know where both camps are coming from. I was never in a Top 10 clan in TRIBES, but the enDless did break into the top 20 and we were good (just there was about 16 other clans that were better ). So I know where the competitive people are coming from (especially as the transition from JKO to JKA from what I hear, is VERY similar to the transition from Tribes to Tribes 2 where we found most of our staples and things needed to get the game won were gone through various ways). On the other hand, as of late I've been too busy to play competitively so while I still consider myself a hard core gamer, it's more from the fact that I play everything, and not play one thing for years, so I guess it's more "casual gamer +" and I'm a huge Star Wars nut.

 

Modders can fix the problems with competitve play, and I'm sure some will try. But even still, the fact that cappers can live indefinately with proper use of heal/absorb/speed is a fairly critical game issue in my opinion, and a way to stop it in Saber Only Full Force games needs to be added.

 

One of the great things about Capture the Ysalamari was that once you had that lizard, well, you'd better hope you had some teammates near by because you weren't going anywhere fast.

 

Heck, I bet a lot of competitve players would settle for something as simple as having the flag on you limits you to Force Speed 1. You're still going faster than the people who dind't buy it, but the Chasers can catch you easier if you aren't able to use your head. Maybe just 1 level less than you bought (so if you bought Speed 3, you'd be at 2 while holding the flag)

 

There are tons of solutions to the problem, the trick is finding one..then getting it implemented. Flaming does nothing but help ruin getting the help needed.