Solo Saber Nerfed Thread

[Spider AL]

Ardent:

 

I won't deny being a propagandist. I'm really good at what I do, too. I haven't made any claims of "leetness."

Spot the not-so deliberate mistake. Sigh.

 

So you're a propagandaist. That's fine, but never forget that your arguments are just as flimsy and generic as all propaganda is. Don't start believing your own hype.

 

I'm not going to counter "core gameplay" because it's not defined. I can create my very own definition of core gameplay and it'll be just as valid as yours.

Like most spin-infested folk, you forget that there is a right, and a wrong. Gameplay is how the game plays. It's not how you choose to play the game. You can play the game weilding just a stormtrooper rifle if you like. That doesn't define the gameplay though, does it. You can make addon maps, their existence doesn't change the gameplay. You've done NOTHING to back up your ridiculous and laughable claims that adding kick to the game (a purely gameplay-specific change) is comparable in any way, shape or form to bugfixes which, being bugfixes, have a right to be in any patch released by Raven.

 

I originally came here under the impression they were reading here. Now, however, I remain only because to do so amused me. The more it seems you can't get single, simple little points however, the less I find myself amused.

I directly e-mail the development team at Ravensoft. Because I know if nothing else, they'll see the subject heading.

 

As unlikely as it may seem to you, perhaps there is something I know that you don't...

Thank you for admitting that you aren't here for any constructive purpose. Good luck in your spamming of Raven, I'm certain they'll single out your e-mails as exemplars of their ilk.

 

Oh, and the only thing you know that I don't, Ardent, is what it feels like to be a troll.

 

Unnamed:

 

Al, wake up dude, I respect you (even though I give you hell now and then) but you are really talking out your arse on this one.

 

Remember, we play ff/so. The way that game type functions is no where like all weapon games.

 

Powers, attack and defense strategy are all *very specific to the maps.

Errm. I'm glad you respect me. That doesn't alter the fact that while YOUR TACTICS may change according to the different maps you play, and MY tactics may change according to the different maps I play- you seem to erroneously think that changing tactics according to what map you're playing is purely a NG CTF thing- That doesn't change the core gameplay of the game. The core gameplay is how the game plays. It's the things one can do in the game, it's the things the different weapons and force powers do. None of those things change when you play different maps, only the tactics one uses change. You may decide not to use absorb in one map, and use it in another. That hasn't CHANGED absorb, that's merely your personal tactic, your personal choice.

 

None of that has nothing to do with the gameplay of the game itself. You're obviously labouring under the misapprehension that "gameplay" is how YOU play the game. That's not so. Gameplay is how the game itself plays, it is all the different mechanisms of weaponry and motion and physics and damage brought together into a single dynamic, the dynamic of potential interactions, that is what gameplay is.

 

And adding kick is a gameplay-specific change, so quite frankly anyone who wishes to claim that adding kick is even comparable to a bugfix is both self-serving AND wrong.

 

When many of you kept babbling on about how "it's a totally new game" and I pointed out how the majority of the swings, and all of the powers were direct identical ports from jk2, no one seemed to be able to deny the information I was laying out with any factual claims, so all I got was “premature patches are bad” or “adapt and learn” as responses.

HAH! Just because YOU chose to IGNORE them, doesn't mean they weren't there. We stated many moral, technical and actual reasons why JA is a new game, here are some of them again in brief:

 

Technical - JA runs using an updated and separate engine from JO. A separate executable. Its graphics have been updated. Weaponry has been changed, damage specs have been changed. It has new moves, new textures, new sounds, generally new content. There is no TECHNICAL way JA can be defined as anything but a new product, a new game.

 

Moral - JA is a new game because of the technical concerns, but also because of the work that went into it. I doubt Raven would be pleased at or agree with your assertions that it is merely a glorified mod.

 

Actual - You argue it's a glorified mod because its content is UNORIGINAL. If you applied your criteria to all games instead of just this one, you'd be declaring Half-Life a mod of Quake, Quake 2 a mod of Quake, JO a mod of Quake. You'd be declaring UT a mod of Unreal, and Baldur's Gate 2 a mod of Baldur's Gate. ALL of those claims would be NONSENSE, just as your claim that JA is a mod of JO in all but name, IS.

 

You guys are totally and utterly clueless about full force saber only game play.

Once again you manage to conveniently forget that since 1998 I've played FF sabres only in the JK series with GREAT competitive success, a fact I've proven over and over in more than this thread. Pfft. Your assertions are baseless and nonsensical to be frank. And your memory is selective.

 

You don't know a damn thing about our game type, chances are you never will even play it, so do me a favor and get the <bleep> out of this discussion because you have no business here.

Well shucks, I'm convinced by this totally mature and relevant argument, I don't know about you.

[Master William]

Lock this thread - if this goes on, one of these angry guys are going to throw a knife in somebody's eye, and don't blame ME when you it hits YOU!

 

*runs away*

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Spot the not-so deliberate mistake. Sigh.

 

So you're a propagandaist. That's fine, but never forget that your arguments are just as flimsy and generic as all propaganda is. Don't start believing your own hype.

 

Forget to bring your substance with you, or was that a deliberate mistake AL? I never said what SORT of propagandist I am...you simply made an inference. One made, I might add, without a whole lot of insight.

 

I'll also point out that my honesty is propaganda. It makes me, I don't know how to put this so you'll understand...trustworthy? That'll do. It makes me seem more trustworthy, although I haven't actually told anyone anything they don't already know.

 

Like most spin-infested folk, you forget that there is a right, and a wrong.

 

Unfortunately for you, I have no forgotten. More to the point, I've kept in mind that what is right and wrong is not defined by you. That's what ticks you off, isn't it? That I won't buy your propaganda.

 

Gameplay is how the game plays.

 

Thanks for emphasizing my stance.

 

It's not how you choose to play the game.

 

Now we want to delve into the semantics of your definition? Bad move...baaaad move.

 

You can play the game weilding just a stormtrooper rifle if you like. That doesn't define the gameplay though, does it.

 

Oh absolutely it does. If you choose to play the game through with just the E-11 blaster rifle, then your gameplay (e.g. how the game plays) is very much centered around the E-11 blaster rifle. Now if Raven suddenly decided to remove the rifle...well...your gameplay is pretty severely crippled, isn't it?

 

You can make addon maps, their existence doesn't change the gameplay.

 

...until you play on them. Then they will affect the gameplay. If I make a level that is entirely platforms in void and the object is to hop from one to the other, you can't tell me that one of the favored tactics will not be push/pull. This will lead to absorb being one of the, if not the singular most, valuable Force skills on that map. Which alters HOW THE GAME PLAYS.

 

You've done NOTHING to back up your ridiculous and laughable claims that adding kick to the game (a purely gameplay-specific change) is comparable in any way, shape or form to bugfixes which, being bugfixes, have a right to be in any patch released by Raven.

 

Whoa, hold up. Don't put words in my mouth. Ever. Again. To paraphrase, I said, "Where's the harm in adding a few cvars that will, if the opposition speculation is correct, result in only a small group of players employing them on their own servers?"

 

Thank you for admitting that you aren't here for any constructive purpose.

 

Honesty is a tool long forgotten by amateur propagandists.

 

Good luck in your spamming of Raven, I'm certain they'll single out your e-mails as exemplars of their ilk.

 

Oh, so now you'll assault me in a situation where you have no hope of providing evidence to your support? For shame. If it was your business, and it isn't, I only e-mail them back when I either have a new thought about gameplay mechanics (which, ironically, may be the phrase you've been groping for) or I've been e-mailed back by one of them. I don't have any need nor any desire to spam people who have been pretty darn kind to me.

 

Oh, and the only thing you know that I don't, Ardent, is what it feels like to be a troll.

 

Nothing left except personal attacks?

[thelastaod]

OwNeD!!1oneone

[ic0n]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/newbie4.jpg

there you go al.

[Spider AL]

Ardent:

 

Forget to bring your substance with you, or was that a deliberate mistake AL? I never said what SORT of propagandist I am...you simply made an inference. One made, I might add, without a whole lot of insight.

Just didn't get it, did you. Leetor.

 

I'll also point out that my honesty is propaganda. It makes me, I don't know how to put this so you'll understand...trustworthy? That'll do. It makes me seem more trustworthy, although I haven't actually told anyone anything they don't already know

Your assertions that you are honest are indeed, merely propaganda. And anyone who would trust such obvious propaganda would indeed deserve everything they got out of such folly.

 

Unfortunately for you, I have no forgotten. More to the point, I've kept in mind that what is right and wrong is not defined by you. That's what ticks you off, isn't it?

What are you on about? Odd. What is right and wrong is a constant that I cannot interfere with. More to the point, it exists no matter how much you attempt to ignore it. Heh. Adding kick is a gameplay-specific change, hence subjective, hence undesirable in a premature form. Bugfixes are objective, hence desirable in any form. Once again you've managed to type out a whole post without even attempting to debate my points rationally. You amaze me, and not in a good way.

 

Oh absolutely it does. If you choose to play the game through with just the E-11 blaster rifle, then your gameplay (e.g. how the game plays) is very much centered around the E-11 blaster rifle. Now if Raven suddenly decided to remove the rifle...well...your gameplay is pretty severely crippled, isn't it?

Hmm, getting closer to actually attempting to argue, aren't you. That's good... for me: Gameplay is defined in part by the weapons that are available to one as we've previously stated. Merely choosing to use a weak-ass rifle does not affect the gameplay of the game itself, because all those other weapons still exist in the game, and are still available. All it does is show one up either as a man who likes a very big challenge, or a very silly man indeed. Personal choice doesn't define gameplay any more than different levels define gameplay. A game has its own gameplay, which remains unaltered until a gameplay-altering patch is released. QED.

 

You sling the word gameplay around without understanding its meaning, or perhaps wilfully blinding yourself to its meaning. You may as well have substituted the word "banana" for the word "gameplay" in that whole paragraph you wrote there, because it would obviously have had the same meaning to you.

 

...until you play on them. Then they will affect the gameplay. If I make a level that is entirely platforms in void and the object is to hop from one to the other, you can't tell me that one of the favored tactics will be push/pull. This will lead to absorb being one of the, if not the singular most, valuable Force skills on that map. Which alters HOW THE GAME PLAYS.

Oh a certain addon map may... inspire you to play the game while in the nude, that doesn't mean that being in the nude is part of the core gameplay, which remains unaltered across all maps and despite any personal choices you decide to make. Once again you yourself are forced to use the word "tactics" in your erroneous assertion, which is indeed what changes across different maps. Tactics. Not gameplay.

 

Whoa, hold up. Don't put words in my mouth. Ever. Again.

Oh I didn't. It's quite clear to everyone that you're trying to justify your unjustifiable position of wanting premature gameplay-specific changes by equating them erroneously to bugfixes. First you claimed that since certain bugfixes affect gameplay, that made all bugfixes irrevocably intertwined with gameplay alterations.

 

In short, you might as well have said: Since some bugfixes affect gameplay, all gameplay changes are indistinguishable from bugfixes!

 

Which is logically incorrect.

 

Then you learned that these map-specific changes would be implemented. You claim that these are not only map-specific bugfixes, but gameplay-specific changes. (This is obviously nonsense, and has been disproven by myself and Gab.) Since, you say, these gameplay-specific changes have been implemented, why not implement OUR gameplay specific changes, in other words, add kick1!!111 Well, fiddling with maps changes only those maps. It doesn't change the core gameplay of the game. Adding kick is adding a new move, a new WEAPON, and by its nature is a large, subjective, gameplay-specific change. Premature gameplay-specific changes are not desirable, and produce negative and abberant results in all gametypes, something you don't care about.

 

So, you want kick ported over to JA? Bad bad lad! Shame on ye!

 

Nothing left except personal attacks?

Calling you a troll is less of a personal attack, more of a "the sky is the colour which is called blue" kinda irrefutable statement. Sorry if your feelings are hurt though.

 

It's nice to see that your two supporters there could teach you a thing or two about mature debating though, Ardent. Learn ye well.

[Inaba]

Hello. I have seen that the solo sabre can't measure up to the staff sabre or the dual sabres because one has 2 sides and the other has, well, 2 sabres. I think the solo sabres are comparitively weaker. When I use the solo sabre, I use yellow mode to get an ok speed and an ok damage and range rating. This however does not work well against anyone using the 2 new sabres. They are able to take you down in a single hit once you are open and that happens alot since blocking throws your arm straight up. The red mode only works if you get a "lucky" hit and then you are open for a quick attack after 1 strike. It seems almost impossible to win against the dual and staff using a single.

[FK | unnamed]

Al, I don't give a damn about what you did back during the Vietnam War era in regards to your clan.

 

Nor do I give a damn about jk1.

 

Jedi Academy was a direct rip of Jedi Outcast with a few tweaks done under the hood.

 

Anyone who does not see that is one stupid son of a <female canine>.

 

The overwhelming content remains the same, and functions the same (sans the few tweaks I have mentioned on numerous occasions).

 

It's the same engine, same game play, same key press sequences, same swings, same guns, same powers; built by the same company and people, you see where this is going?

 

If you want to cling to technicalities like “it came in a different box” or “there are lines of code in the build that are different” then by all means go ahead.

 

The world is also flat and there really is an Easter bunny.

 

Please send me a post card from the land of denial, I’ve always wanted one.

 

 

 

Now as for the FF/SO game play from these last two games goes, note I say last two, not jk1, not a game of pong from 1981, not a game of checkers you played back in 1876...

 

 

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if you ever were to play me in a FF/SO match I would turn you out like a $2 trick.

 

 

You never reached the level of mastery in that game type I did, you didn't conquer the American players who occupied our ladders, and you didn't conquer the European elite either.

 

 

Sit here and pontificate and dissect posts all day if you want, if that's what brings joy to your life by all means have fun.

 

 

But I am so damn sick of you people trying to lecture the people who do play this game type and who have mastered it, how you think it should work.

 

Put up or please shut the <fornicate> up.

 

 

You want any of us to believe you know what you are talking about and not just some loud mouth <mule>hole trying to argue just for the sake of arguing?

 

Step up and prove it.

 

1v1 me and let me teach you just how little you know about FF/SO.

 

10 rounds of JK2.

10 rounds of JA.

 

 

Then go grab your clan and let's do some CTF.

 

1 map of FF/SO in JK2, [FW] vs. [div3rse] or f/< in JK2.

 

1 map in JA.

 

 

Then, after you and your clan get massacred, maybe, just maybe you will understand where these complaints on behalf of the competitive players who have spent a year and a half playing this game type are coming from.

 

And maybe, just maybe you won't be as compelled to sit here and talk out of your <mule> as much.

 

 

And before you try to weasel out of that challenge as dismissing it as a personal attack, I want to make it crystal clear I have nothing at all against you.

 

But if you are going to sit here and debate, criticize and insult the people who do play a certain game type and try to assume some kind of condescending demeanor when you speak to them about that game type, you need to prove you posses the knowledge and experience that they do.

 

 

Simply put, you “talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?”

 

Let’s see shall we?

[ic0n]

Spider AL: Face it. You're a retard. You dont have ANY valid points. Just turn off your computer. Cmon. Turn it off. In fact, just throw it out the window.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you throw it yet? Ahh... forgot. You live in your parents' basement.

[FK | unnamed]

No ic0n, don't flame him.

 

It will give him an excuse to go off topic and conveniently ignore the challenge in front of him.

 

 

Al has sat here and in an arrogant and ignorantly incorrect demeanor, criticized and insulted the absolute best FF/SO players to ever set foot on a Jedi Outcast server.

 

The funny thing is the criticism and insults have all revolved around his deluded and/or egotistical (and incorrect) assumption that he’s on the same level of skill and knowledge as the people he is lecturing.

 

He wants to puff his chest out and act like he’s one of the big boys; he’s going to need to prove it.

 

 

And no Al, your kill tracker stats are not going to cut it this time...

 

[ic0n]

Ahem, you are assuming he has played MP. I bet hes just basing his opinions on his SP experiences, or whatever he has seen on the forums. I've seen people in threads about multiplayer stuff, saying like "oh why dont you just grip him and throw the other saber at him" and junk like that.

[Shakey Mac]

RE: longer single saber deflection times

 

ive found that if you use blue saber style that your deflection speed goes WAY up. high enough that you can sometimes fully block (and even deflect/parry) the dual saber twirl. if you want to test this, go into single player and use cheats to give yourself all three combat styles (setsaberoffense 3) and max defense (setsaberdefense 3) and switch between fast, medium and strong styles while enemies are shooting at you. youll notice that in strong style your deflection speed is still dependent on your saberdefense level, but the drawback is the long recovery time where your characters saber is thrown behind him.

 

in medium (yellow) your saber recovery speed is about 1/2 that of strong style, while in fast its about 1/2 the speed of medium.

 

in strong (red) your saber recovery speed is abyssmal, even when just blocking projectiles.

 

in fast (blue) your saber recovery speed is insane, allowing you to block incoming projectiles from a very large forward arc while taking little to no damage. as i said before, it can even fully block and sometimes deflect or parry an opponent who uses moves moves like the saber twirl or staff kata.

 

so you get the breakdown like this:

fast - defensive stance

medium - mid-range offense/defense stance

strong - offensive stance

 

hope that helps ya a bit. my guess is that raven did this to emphasize blue as the defensive stance. in JO blue, yellow and red all could block attacks with equal efficiency, despite the fact that red left your character "open." im guessing raven also did it to nerf strong stance a bit by giving it a downside.

[ic0n]

ima bust a cap in your ass, foo.

[Master William]

What's with you guys, fighting over a game. It's a GAME!

READ: G A M E !

 

Before, games were just play and enjoy, now it's Play, Enjoy, Whine, Hate, Debate Rudely

 

G........a.........m........e.....

 

I'm not gonna do 20 quotes and post ''Uh, that is utterly pathetic, you fool. Pretending to be doing this and that is even more patethic. ''

 

Calm down, c'mon. Or I will spam your PM inboxes or something

[ic0n]

You're 2 seconds away from being banned, ic0n....

[SpartaZx]

who cares if its "just a game"

i paid 60 bucks for this and i excect to enjoy it.

[ic0n]

kitty.

[SpartaZx]

deleted

[Master William]

ic0n, your post has been reported, enjoy your warning, haha

[Spider AL]

Awww, the widdew fewwo gotten angwy.

 

Unnamed:

 

Jedi Academy was a direct rip of Jedi Outcast with a few tweaks done under the hood.

 

Anyone who does not see that is one stupid son of a <female canine>.

Yes yes, you keep coming out with this nonsense, laced with profanity. JA qualifies as a new game because it contains new content and runs on a modified engine. You fail to offer any arguments to refute this, instead coming out with:

 

It's the same engine, same game play, same key press sequences, same swings, same guns, same powers;

The engine's been changed. The gameplay is dependant on the weapons and moves, those have been changed. The key press sequences have been subtly altered with regards to rhythm in certain cases, not to mention all the new moves that are activated by new sequences. Certain swings may have the same animations, but since the sabre does damage in a different way to a different scale now, they might as well be new swings. New gun. Yeah, got to admit, the force powers are mostly similar.

 

So when taken as a whole, all your carefully thought-out and crafted points are a load of rubbish. Got anything else? Thought not.

 

Al, I don't give a damn about what you did back during the Vietnam War era in regards to your clan.

 

Nor do I give a damn about jk1.

Oh and likewise, I really don't care about what you enjoyed about JO, I don't care about your mad desire to port everything you enjoyed about JO over to JA, I don't care that you've played ONE of the JK series and have decided you're an authority on that series, and I really don't care WHAT, if anything, you care about. I'm glad you're getting all this off your chest, but it's all so much dancing around the debate. Try arguing points, for a change.

 

Now as for the FF/SO game play from these last two games goes, note I say last two, not jk1, not a game of pong from 1981, not a game of checkers you played back in 1876...

 

 

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if you ever were to play me in a FF/SO match I would turn you out like a $2 trick.

 

 

You never reached the level of mastery in that game type I did, you didn't conquer the American players who occupied our ladders, and you didn't conquer the European elite either.

Firstly, I made it clear both just now and a while back that I won a couple of UK JO FF NG duel tournaments. That makes me as qualified to comment on JO FF NG as anyone, I guess. I played enough of it. I didn't enjoy NG CTF so I achieved precisely 0 levels of mastery at it and am PROUD of that fact, I certainly didn't "conquer" the American players who occupied your ladders, because I never played any of them, and exactly which "european elite" are you referring to? I certainly defeated several NF duel players who numbered among the commonly accepted UK elite of the time. If you have some problem with that, that's frankly your business. I spent my time in the barrel in JO, JK before it and now JA, I've done all sorts of funky things in all of those games, I'm as qualified to comment on it as anyone alive, so just calm yourself down and try to debate rationally from here on in. Don't be another Ardent.

 

But I am so damn sick of you people trying to lecture the people who do play this game type and who have mastered it, how you think it should work.

 

Put up or please shut the <fornicate> up.

Oh I see. You've repeated your consistent, elementary error. I'm not telling you how your favourite sub-gametype should work. I'm telling you two... no, three things:

 

1. Why JA is technically, morally and actually a separate game from JO

 

2. Why premature gameplay-alterations in official patches can cause abberant and negative results

 

3. Why gameplay-changes are separate from bugfixes

 

And I think I've done so fairly thoroughly. All without resorting to petty bad language! ph33r.

 

You want any of us to believe you know what you are talking about and not just some loud mouth <mule>hole trying to argue just for the sake of arguing?

 

Step up and prove it.

Ehh? J00 CHALLENGE MEH???/// Oooh, I can feel your adrenaline pumping now eh...

 

Well, I'll answer any personal challenge you put on the [FW] message boards. Win or lose, that challenge will have no relevance to this debate, or any debate. Playing the game doesn't decide who's right or wrong. I've always claimed to be a staunch avoider of NG CTF. The debate isn't about NG CTF, it's whether the NG CTF players like yourself should be allowed to alter the WHOLE game to sate your mad lust for JO ports.

 

As for your second challenge, I have to ask... exactly what would a clan match between UK-based [FW] with three active members who have never played NG CTF for ANYTHING but late-night amusement at the futility of it all,.. and your (presumably US based) clan who plays nothing but NG CTF, prove? Other than the fact that we have better taste in gametypes than you do?

 

Al has sat here and in an arrogant and ignorantly incorrect demeanor, criticized and insulted the absolute best FF/SO players to ever set foot on a Jedi Outcast server.

OMG I HAVE SINNED ABSOLVE MEH!!!11

 

I can see you're getting all teary over this unforgivable slight against such wonderful, saintly people as the NG CTF crowd... But two points:

 

1. I've insulted nobody. You and your friends have insulted me readily. That shows better than anything who has the stronger argument, I think.

 

2. See pt. no.1.

 

PS: Icon has a stronger argument than yourself or Ardent.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Playing the game doesn't decide who's right or wrong.

 

 

We base our opinions on our experience; there is no other way to do it in a game when discussing game play mechanics on a competition level.

 

Those who do it the best, naturally know the most about it.

 

Those who never play it, or are not very good at it… generally know much less about it.

 

Insert “duh” here.

 

In short, it proves who knows the most about it, and who needs to stfu about it.

 

 

Now onto the 1v1 thing, time and date?

 

What works best for you?

 

And no this does not need to be done on the [FW] boards.

 

I made the challenge here, and will post the demo of it here, because you seem to think you have knowledge to comehere, and lecture the peoplehere, about things you have little viable experience in.

 

These people are masters of their field, they came here to express their concerns and issues with the way the game play changes affected their community, and you took it upon yourself to do nothing but try and provoke them and argue with them for the sole sake of arguing.

 

That is your motis operandi; it always has been on these forums.

 

Anyone who doubts this, simply search his posts.

 

He finds a person, then virtually every single one of his posts are spent on arguing with the individual, not debating the topic mind you, arguing with the individual.

 

 

Debating is one thing, but all you have done is use outdated analogies and often asinine comparisons to things that have nothing to due with the issues at hand to “prove your points”

 

You’re a troll Al, a troll who can speak rather eloquently, but a troll none the less.

 

one has to wonder why you type crap like this:

 

widdew fewwo gotten angwy

 

Ehh? J00 CHALLENGE MEH???///

 

OMG I HAVE SINNED ABSOLVE MEH!!!11

 

 

when none of us actually speak like that.

 

oh wait, I get it, you are trying to piss people off by mocking them.

 

good work there Al, keep it up.

 

 

 

Time and date for our match big man?

[Spider AL]

Unnamed:

 

And no this does not need to be done on the [FW] boards.

 

I made the challenge here, and will post the demo of ithere

Yeah it does. You make the choice. You can post the demo anywhere you like, but since this challenge is obviously a feeble attempt by you to boost your public ego here, you can jolly well suck it up and challenge me by the book or not at all. I pay no heed to flaming glory-hounds.

 

you seem to think you have knowledge to comehere, and lecture the peoplehere, about things you have little viable experience in.

Oh I have plenty of experience in watching people like yourself try to ruin games with premature gameplay alterations. As for lecturing people, I was under the impression that I was debating with YOU, not "people".

 

Debating is one thing, but all you have done is use outdated analogies and often asinine comparisons to things that have nothing to due with the issues at hand to “prove your points”

Yeah yeah, note that your entire post contains not one shred of dispute relevant to our debate over whether premature gameplay-alterations cause abberant and negative effects to games. I can hardly blame you for avoiding it, because you have no case.

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL Awww, the widdew fewwo gotten angwy.

 

You could at least pretend to have some respect for the people you're pretending to debate with.

 

So when taken as a whole, all your carefully thought-out and crafted points are a load of rubbish. Got anything else? Thought not.

 

The difference is, you deny your own points returned to you. You refute your own freaking argument. You have no stance, you're just here to piss people off and maybe, everyone once in while, spew already-refuted garbage.

 

Firstly, I made it clear both just now and a while back that I won a couple of UK JO FF NG duel tournaments.

 

*snore* With the exception of solid guys like Grint and sw1ft, I could tear through a euro clan in just about anything with one other person on my team, if only to make it a team. As mentioned before, I only view myself as a moderately skilled competitive level player.

 

That makes me as qualified to comment on JO FF NG as anyone, I guess.

 

Win a U.S. tournament. Or win a ladder against U.S. clans. We'll play on your servers if you want. We routinely play on Portugal-based servers, Hong Kong-based servers and GB-based servers. We routinely stomp the home team.

 

I played enough of it. I didn't enjoy NG CTF so I achieved precisely 0 levels of mastery at it and am PROUD of that fact, I certainly didn't "conquer" the American players who occupied your ladders, because I never played any of them, and exactly which "european elite" are you referring to?

 

Now? Hard to say...most of them have retired. Grint and sw1ft are a good place to start, though.

 

I certainly defeated several NF duel players who numbered among the commonly accepted UK elite of the time. If you have some problem with that, that's frankly your business. I spent my time in the barrel in JO, JK before it and now JA, I've done all sorts of funky things in all of those games, I'm as qualified to comment on it as anyone alive, so just calm yourself down and try to debate rationally from here on in. Don't be another Ardent.

 

Hi, I've been debating rationally here. You? I can't be certain, because I haven't seen anything but a thinly-veiled personal attack from you lately.

 

1. Why JA is technically, morally and actually a separate game from JO

 

So you say. So you say. You can't even remember what arguments are your own, you just refute them reflexively because someone else is using them.

 

2. Why premature gameplay-alterations in official patches can cause abberant and negative results

 

So can premature babies, but we're certainly not holding it against anyone.

 

3. Why gameplay-changes are separate from bugfixes

 

This one you cannot be given in any way, shape or form. You have failed to successfully explain the difference to my satisfaction.

 

Well, I'll answer any personal challenge you put on the [FW] message boards. Win or lose, that challenge will have no relevance to this debate, or any debate. Playing the game doesn't decide who's right or wrong.

 

But it will establish who is and who isn't speaking out of their rear aperature.

 

I've always claimed to be a staunch avoider of NG CTF. The debate isn't about NG CTF, it's whether the NG CTF players like yourself should be allowed to alter the WHOLE game to sate your mad lust for JO ports.

 

Yep, and so far nobody's made a good argument to the contrary of a cvar. You just sit there and argue the semantics of gameplay.

 

As for your second challenge, I have to ask... exactly what would a clan match between UK-based [FW] with three active members who have never played NG CTF for ANYTHING but late-night amusement at the futility of it all,.. and your (presumably US based) clan who plays nothing but NG CTF, prove? Other than the fact that we have better taste in gametypes than you do?

 

Making sweeping statements about clans you know little or nothing about can't be anything but a bad move, AL.

 

1. I've insulted nobody. You and your friends have insulted me readily. That shows better than anything who has the stronger argument, I think.

 

Oh, you've insulted nobody? That's a laugh and a half. Don't make me pick out quotes from this thread, AL, just fess up.

 

PS: Icon has a stronger argument than yourself or Ardent.

 

Nevermind, I don't have to go far. Good job, AL, you really ARE a hypocrite.

[FK | unnamed]

http://boards.gamers.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=forcewarrior&id=zzzcy

 

 

 

Damn your boards are dead dude, was the only reason for it being posted there a cheap trick to get some hits for your site or get another account registered?

 

 

And yeah Al, you want to know who the biggest baddest mofo of Europe was in JK2 1.04 FF/SO?

 

Swift

 

That's the same SF-Swift, shock ~ swift and fk | swift.

 

He came over here and dominated the American ladders and the only, and I do mean the only person who took him down in league/ladder play was none other than Break_dF, who is widely regarded as the best force-saber only player to ever grace a Jedi Outcast server.

 

Now keep in mind, those two guys have been my clan mates for over a year, they are the people I trained and played with and honed my skills with.

 

That in mind, take a glance at these to see how I stack up skill wise in this equation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah this is 4 on 2:

 

 

 

3 on 2:

 

These were not posted to make fun of the other clan or show off our scores on some Euro guys (who were cool as hell BTW).

 

It is just an example of how I stack up against the U.K.'s big dog when it comes to FF/SO combat skill.

 

[Spider AL]

Ardent:

 

You could at least pretend to have some respect for the people you're pretending to debate with.

Hey, I tend to lose respect for people that troll and swear at me. Doesn't mean I'll refuse to debate with them.

 

*snore* With the exception of solid guys like Grint and sw1ft, I could tear through a euro clan in just about anything with one other person on my team, if only to make it a team. As mentioned before, I only view myself as a moderately skilled competitive level player.

I don't doubt it, mate. You know, maybe if we compare genital size, that'll sort out the argument over whether premature gameplay-alterations cause aberrant and negative effects to games once and for all. Snnxxx.

 

Win a U.S. tournament.

Ehhh... OH NOS HE HAS CALLED MEH BLUFF!!!1

 

I never took part in a US tournament... I'm extremely sorry. Forgive me. I know that makes me a bad person.

 

Hi, I've been debating rationally here.

...

 

Am I looking at the same thread you're looking at?

 

Okay, I'll bite. Where's your argument against the fact that gameplay-alterations are independant of bugfixes and map-changes? Non-existent? Shame.

 

This one you cannot be given in any way, shape or form. You have failed to successfully explain the difference to my satisfaction.

Yeeeuuus, I'm afraid that your satisfaction isn't my primary concern, Ardent. Many people believe that they are in fact, Napoleon. I've never been able to prove that they're not Napoleon to their satisfaction, either. Still, give them a newspaper hat and they're happy.

 

Do you want a newspaper hat? No? Worth a try.

 

Yep, and so far nobody's made a good argument to the contrary of a cvar. You just sit there and argue the semantics of gameplay.

Had the sunglasses on again eh. Splitting the community... causing unforseen balance issues in other gametypes... none of that ringing any bells?

 

So can premature babies, but we're certainly not holding it against anyone.

Irrelevancy takes on new and colourful forms under Ardent's careful ministrations.

 

Making sweeping statements about clans you know little or nothing about can't be anything but a bad move, AL.

Oh I couldn't agree more, Mr. "I could tear through a euro clan in just about anything with one other person on my team, if only to make it a team." Lol.

 

Nevermind, I don't have to go far. Good job, AL, you really ARE a hypocrite.

That's not an insult, it's my genuine opinion.

 

Or are you insulting poor Icon? Why you cad!