Darth Windu's Idea for SWGB2!

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - you seem to have missed the point...which doesnt really suprise me.

You say 'gas powers weapons, not engines, so your idea is unrealistic'.

The point i was trying to make was that, without being able to use your weapons, what use are aircraft? Either way, this works for realism.

 

Vostok - not true. This feature of adding 'gas' as a resource makes aircraft more important, and allows them to be strengthened without adding ridiculous ideas like Stormtrooper shooting down X-wing's.

Furthermore, it adds a whole new level of strategy to the game. For example, if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game, your target would most likely be their Gas refineries. Of course, they will do their best to stop you, leading to some ferocious and exciting battles.

 

DarthMaul - as far as i was aware, Gaber was working on a star wars related RTS. Your statement though indicates that this project is indeed SWGB2

[Compa_Mighty]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

DarthMaul - as far as i was aware, Gaber was working on a star wars related RTS. Your statement though indicates that this project is indeed SWGB2

 

He said in another thread he is only reffering to this project as SWGB2, cause we all do... not necessarily because that's the name.

[saberhagen]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

The point i was trying to make was that, without being able to use your weapons, what use are aircraft?

 

Well, they're still useful for scouting which can be quite important. Remember not all units should be judged on their fighting ability. Many people under estimate the probot just because it has a weak attack and few hit points.

 

 

if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game,

 

Not necessarily. What about the Naboo? There was a big debate about this on the GiRL forum and Pompei maintains that Naboo are a more powerful air civ than the Rebs. Although many people disagreed, you can't just ignore someone as clued up as him.

[Admiral Vostok]

For example, if you are fighting the Rebel's, the most powerful air force in the game, your target would most likely be their Gas refineries.

This shows exactly how your method will weaken air too much. If the use of Air is limited to maintaining an amount of Gas, enemies of Air-strong civs will most certainly go for Gas, as you state and in fact desire. The problem with this theory is that people will not be ecouraged to use Air, because it's use is so dependent on this one thing. The Rebels have a strong Trooper element, and it is feasible (as it should be) to win using the Rebels without using their Air Force. This is of course what people will do exclusively, not using any of the Rebel's Air because they are so hard to keep in the air. My method of allowing Troopers to shoot at Air with non-spectacular results is far more encouraging for Air Forces to be used.

[DK_Viceroy]

hmm i'm sory vostok but i'm having second thoughts about troopers firing at air i double checked and they move to fast maybe allowing the units that were formerly mech destroyers to fire at air they would certainly have the targetting systems. I'm not ruling it out but troopers really wouldn't ahve the targetting systems required to get a shot near you'd have to have 50 in one area firing all art once to have a chance i'm sorry but i thought it through and checked i'm not sure what the MGLT to KPH or MPH is but i think it's something like 1 MGLT to 1000 KPH or something like that then again those figures are for in space so i could be wrong i propably am it's propably half their space speed because the unaerodynamic shpes of most of the fighters would rip them apart if they used their space speed. maybe have units like AAT AT-ST Homing Spider Droid fire at air maybe instead or as well?

 

 

Windu please realise rockets weren't designed in the star wars universe for troopers to use and for the few bounty hunters that did use them they weren't fired at air please see sense your practucally saying a bow and arrow is star warsy.

[Darth Windu]

saber - the probot isnt an aircraft, and its main purpose is scouting...

Also, in regards to this 'Pompei' person, yes, i can disregard what they say. There is absolutely NO evidence that the Naboo aircraft is as good or diverse as the Rebels.

 

Vostok - i never said the Rebels HAD to use air. Besides, all a smart Rebel player has to do is build lots of troops while ignoring air, then while their opponent is going after gas, hit them with the infantry.

 

Viceroy - if Lucas thought rockets were un-StarWarsy, he wouldnt have included them in his movies. One last thing-

JANGO FETT

[DK_Viceroy]

Like I said The FEW BOUNTY HUNTERS THAT USED THEM in future read all of the post not what you want to see through those rose coloured coke bottles i never saw jango fett fire them at an AIR TARGET only obi.

 

Rockets were never fired at fighters which goes to say that while they were there they wern't that acurate enough to hit a small and fast fighter yes and he meant rockets to be used against ground targets by a few units unique to some civs you've talked about diversity how is it diverse if every civ {including your Yuuzhan Vong who hate technology and would never use a rocket} DIVERSE it's about diverse as a brown dog with a white spot on it's four paws being thrown into a hall of brown dogs there isn't really many differenmces.

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - if a bounty hunter can use rockets, im sure Clone Troopers (clones of Jango) could use the same rockets, or hadnt that occured to you?

 

Also, do you actually watch the movies or just daydream about EU? In ep2, the Hailfiredroids were firing rockets at Gunships, and when Anakin and Obi are chasing Dooku, we get-

Obi: "shoot him down"

Pilot: "We cant sir, we're out of rockets"

 

Hence, rockets are both anti-ground and anti-air weapons, which makes my rocket trooper idea fit in perfectly with realism and the forementioned gameplay.

[Admiral Vostok]

Vostok - i never said the Rebels HAD to use air. Besides, all a smart Rebel player has to do is build lots of troops while ignoring air, then while their opponent is going after gas, hit them with the infantry.

Exactly. Whose going to bother building air when a gas limitation could render them useless and you can just use other units that have no such restrictions?

 

Good point about Jango, though he does only have one rocket at a time.

 

What you (and now Viceroy, who has been turned) should realise is that the Troopers aren't shooting at Aircraft as they fly hundreds of kilometres overhead. I've said that Troopers can only attack Aircraft once they have already been shot at. This represents the Aircraft flying extremely low (since their guns can't be angled downwards) much like the Gunships entering the Geonosis Arena. And you also seem to forget that Troopers don't do very much damage to Aircraft, in fact they get a handicap while shooting at Aircraft. Yes, this makes Troopers very weak against Aircraft... but isn't this what you're arguing for?! Troopers are not good against Aircraft! That's what AA Mechs and other Aircraft are for!

[saberhagen]

*finally stops laughing about someone so opinionated about the game who has never even heard of pompa*

 

Well, I'm not going to split hairs. My points weren't that important and not totally relevant.

 

I would say, though, that if the rebs have the best air in the game, wouldn't that make them overpowered? They are one of the strongest jedi civs (fwiw) and also have good troopers and at least half decent MDs. Compared to this, the Naboo have nothing but air, jedi and strikes and are probably the worst trooper civ.

 

Getting back on topic though, in the current game air/jedi civs depend very heavily on nova, and if it runs out they're screwed. As I've said before, when I play as rebs I often end up relying on repeaters/MDs when I can't afford to build any more air.

[DK_Viceroy]

I have not turned i'm merely stating that it would take a lot of troopers since the average fighter employed by the empire and Rebel Alliance Republic and the GREAT Confederacy are too fast for ONE trooper to hit but 10 COULD i'm not ruling it out i'm merely saying that it would need toi be balanced somehow maybe like i said we could have mech destroyers firing at air as well.I WOULD HARDLY TURN VOSTOK YOUR IDEAS ARE ACTUALLY REALISTIC AND WHEN YOU REALISE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG YOU CORRECT IT AND BACK DOWN UNLIKE SOME WHO HAVE YET TO LEARN

 

 

Never a thinker are you windu you just proved our point about rockets they are unique to the REPUBLIC THE CONFEDERACY AND SELECT BOUNTY HUNTERS

 

 

The Prophet Of Truth

[Admiral Vostok]

Thanks Viceroy, glad you realise I'm not as stubborn as some. Glad to hear you haven't turned, and just to put your mind at ease you will need several Troopers to take down even one Fighter, just as it should be. Troopers should not be your primary defense against air, but they can still shoot at it. Just like in the current game how Bounty Hunters are not your primary defense against Mechs, but they can still shoot at them.

[DK_Viceroy]

Well Hey The True Way ANd The Church Of Purist Must Stick Together ON This what he claims is in violation of both of our teachings

 

Be suure to watch out for the 2 new civ's in my analogy

 

 

 

 

The Prophet Of Truth

 

The True Way

[Darth Windu]

Saber - no, it wouldnt. You have to remember that my idea for SWGB2 is quite different to SWGB. For example, with the Rebels, you get-

- no mechs

- large variation of infantry that can entrench themselves

- large number of aircraft

 

Vostok - the point that YOU are failing to realise is that apart from infantry weapons having zero effect of shields, due to the elevation of, and power of, aircraft weapons, aircraft can engage ground targets at a far longer range than ground forces can enage aircraft with the same wepaons.

[lukeiamyourdad]

hehe it's been a while since I posted hehe

 

Now now now...

 

Viceroy- Rockets might not be unique to the Republic or Confed only. If you've played any SW flight sims you'll realize that you can use heavy rockets to shoot down capital ships and you never play as the confed or rep.

 

Infantry shooting air- As rare as this is, I agree with Windu. It's pointless in realism terms to have infantry do 1 damage to fighters.

However, if the trooper had a heavy repeater(the one we get in Gb1), it would actually make sense to use that against aircrafts.

[DK_Viceroy]

 

That is what the BEST STARFIGHTER in the galaxy looks like it enterred mass production shortly before the battle of endor however production was sabotaged by a rogue admiral by the name of Zarrin who feared that this fighter may be able to stop his efforts.

 

Good point luke we'd never really discussed which trooper weapons would have an effectthanks for the valid point

 

and if i said that such a thing as a TIE Shuttle was in the films and cannon how many people would dispute that

 

Try This SIte Out as well i found it particularly interesting in my search for a picture of the TIE Defender at Endor

 

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/tie.html#tied

 

The Prophet Of Truth

 

The True Way

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think you posted stuff about the Tie Defender in the wrong thread.

By the way, The Tie Defender never entered mass production, only a few were made. Zaarin did not stop the production of the Tie Defender but rather took the scientists and made them for himself.

However, the Missile Boat came along and effectively countered the Tie Defender until they stopped the Missile Boat project due to the rebel almost acquiring one. Tie Defenders disapeared along with Zaarin.

 

 

As for repeaters:

 

I for one thinks this is the most logical infantry unit to be allowed to shoot air units. Rocket units although non-contradictory can be at times un-star warsy. Repeater on the other hand probably have a great effect on Aircraft.

Like Windu pointed out, Lucas based the battles on WWII. In WWII, heavy machine guns could shoot down low flying planes.

 

It makes more sense then plain old troopers with blaster carbines.

[Admiral Vostok]

Actually I was going to make those civs with Repeaters unable to shoot air, because I thought it would be too powerful. I'm going to keep things as they are because remember, it is not the Trooper's job to shoot down Aircraft, it is left to more specialised machinery. And to be honest I don't really see the difference between letting Troopers do a tiny amount of damage to Aircraft and not letting them shoot at it at all. At least the first way is realistic and helps to integrate Aircraft more seemlessly into the game.

[Sithmaster_821]

I thought we were discussing Windu's ideas here not Vostoks. Call me lazy, but I dont feel like arguing the whole infantry thing in two places.

[_IVIeGaTI2oN_]

First off.....

 

Do any of you actually play this game online on the zone?

 

Secondly do you realize this game is meant for RM/DM so you have to be balaced.

 

Thirdly think about the game as a whole and balance issues

 

Fourth, Windu you dont know the game if you think Rebel air is better then Naboo air. Naboo air is -10% cost AND 10% faster. Rebel air is just tied for 2nd best with republic.

[DK_Viceroy]

While some other people on this forum do play on the zone i'm the one on most frequently but just because of that doesn't mwan that people who play on the zone know more about the game it just means they get to play a larger amount of different people.

 

We've all been discussing balance issues especially in stregthening air because while you can win with mechs you can't really win a game with air it's too easily countered not to be all that effective if your playing against an experienced player. that's why we've been discussing wheter troopers should be able to fire at air because of thoughts of scrapping anti air troopers because rockets for any other civ than the Republic and Confederacy rockets arn't star warsy torpedo's arn't rockets so they don't count.

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - what gave you that idea? I have no intention of dropping my Infantry Rocket idea at any point.

 

_IVIeGaTI2oN_ - i do know the game, and if you paid attention you would have realised i was referring to the movies and my idea for SWGB2

[_IVIeGaTI2oN_]

uh huh and from lookin at the movies wat made u think that naboo air was inferior to rebel? just becuz rebels were spent more time on?

 

btw its possible to win with all air if you actually tried it. Trannies are good meath shields and AC are air.

[Darth Windu]

_IVIeGaTI2oN_ - i think of Naboo air as inferior to Rebel air because-

1. Naboo have 1 type of combat aircraft, Rebels have 5

2. Naboo struggled to destroy 1 ship, Rebels destroyed many ships and 2 death stars

3. Naboo are a security force, Rebels are military

 

Need any more?

[Admiral Vostok]

I concur with the above post from Windu (but not with most of Windu's other posts).