Governor Ahhh-nold!

[Kylilin]

Originally posted by AzureAngel

And i suppose they would sell their old trash to 3rd world countries

 

 

Does it matter? All I said was if Japan seriously wanted to expand their military, there would be two main places they would get their hardware from: 1) the U.S. 2) Russia

 

The article I provided already proves that Russia is capable of selling a large amount of military hardware. It doesn't matter if its junk or not. The point is that they sold it.

[Jem]

I wasn't talking about expanding military but military technology. Which is a field that's silly to be boasting about. I just mentioned the military field for an example, now it became the main subject.

 

Funny how everytime the word "military" is pronouced americans will pop up asking "Someone called?"

 

I applaud a nation who's Medecine Technology and accessability are above satisfaction and I am not impressed by one who wastes ridiculous amount of energy and resources on military instead of investing it on resolving it's increasing parenting, poverty and unemployement problems (Close to 35 million of americans live under the poverty line). These problems are real and important: 20% of american kids live in poverty and in the Midwest, 5% suffer from hunger. Poor Health-Care access makes it worst.

 

 

PS: I'm not sure if the term "poverty line" is correct in english, I only know it in french (seuil de pauvreté). So if there's a proper term, tell me, I'd like to know.

[MadPilot]

Originally posted by AzureAngel

please no spontaneous dumba** like replys

 

I can tell you haven't been here long.

 

You'll get used to it.....probably.

 

Originally posted by King Worm

Hang on, they've sold india a bunch of su-30's and an old carrier? Surely as SU-30's are land based, they'll need SU-33's to make use of a carrier?

 

It's quite possible that you know far too much about planes.

 

Also, this dancing thing looks like you.

[Zargon]

Originally posted by Jem

I am not impressed by one who wastes ridiculous amount of energy and resources on military instead of investing it on resolving it's increasing parenting, poverty and unemployement problems (Close to 35 million of americans live under the poverty line). These problems are real and important: 20% of american kids live in poverty and in the Midwest, 5% suffer from hunger. Poor Health-Care access makes it worst.

 

 

PS: I'm not sure if the term "poverty line" is correct in english, I only know it in french (seuil de pauvreté). So if there's a proper term, tell me, I'd like to know.

 

Poverty line is correct, but thats an illusion as well, they manipulate that by just changing what the line is to get new figures....

 

As far as parenting, yeah lets pay people to try and be better parents, you can just hop ethey step up the to responsibility. I also guarentee that half of the people suffereing from hunger suffer becuase their parents waste money on non-important crap.

 

"Gee jimmy, sorry you can;t eat today, but here, watch the Matrix Reloaded DVD that we just bought, maybe it will make you forget that you are hungry"

 

I am pretty sure that our 5% is not a worldwide anomaly either......

 

look how many people died in france just because of a 'heat wave', a term they really kow NOTHING OF due to how not that hot that it was compared to parts of the US in the summer

[Jem]

You can't pay people to be better parents, that's obvious.

 

The worst part about the "Heat Wave" accident was the fact that hundreds of bodies of old people were left unclaimed. They were all abandoned and forgotten by their families.

[AlphaGoaT]

The article I provided already proves that Russia is capable of selling a large amount of military hardware. It doesn't matter if its junk or not. The point is that they sold it.

 

Actually, russian combat aircraft these days are anything but junk. The newer members of the SU-27 family are more than a match for an F-15 or Tornado F3. Why do you think so much time and money was poured into the development of the F-22, not to mention the EuroFighter?

[MadPilot]

Originally posted by Kylilin

in what way do you mean technologically advanced? Do you mean the practical application of technology, as in use in everyday life, or do you mean the very highest levels of technology, cutting edge, state of the art, covert research and development type stuff? Second, how is the United States NOT the most technologically advanced country in the world?

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

I'm lolling all the way to the bank with Jem's US MILITARY ISN"T NECESSARILY #1 BECAUSE JAPAN COULD THEORITICALLY MAKE ONE THAT'S BETTER OMG USA SUCKS. Call me when the Japanese are 12 years from fielding ****ing rail guns, robot fighters, and soldiers with active camo and synthetic muscles in their armor and 17 years from fielding plasma cannons.

 

EDIT: they're saying 2010 on the lasers in the F-35 and AC-130

 

 

 

Military technology is useless when your troops aren't trained to use it effectively. The recent conflict in Iraq gave some good examples of that. Your trigger-happy pilots repeatedly fired upon allied troops because they weren't even trained to recognise them.

 

What about the Patriot missile system that shot down an allied aircraft? Why the hell were they firing at planes in the first place when Iraq don't have any?

 

So, before you give your troops some shiny new futuristic toys to play with, you should first make sure they know who they're supposed to be shooting at.

[Kylilin]

Originally posted by MadPilot

Military technology is useless when your troops aren't trained to use it effectively. The recent conflict in Iraq gave some good examples of that. Your trigger-happy pilots repeatedly fired upon allied troops because they weren't even trained to recognise them.

 

What about the Patriot missile system that shot down an allied aircraft? Why the hell were they firing at planes in the first place when Iraq don't have any?

 

So, before you give your troops some shiny new futuristic toys to play with, you should first make sure they know who they're supposed to be shooting at.

 

Yeah, because the british military has never blundered before.

[AlphaGoaT]

Of course not!

[MadPilot]

I never said they didn't. I just can't understand why you all seem to be so obsessed with exaggerating your military capabilites.

[AlphaGoaT]

You're forgetting that in 20 years time the U.S. Military will have evolved into pure energy and be able to destroy their enemies with a simple gaze.

[Kylilin]

Originally posted by MadPilot

I never said they didn't. I just can't understand why you all seem to be so obsessed with exaggerating your military capabilites.

 

I never exaggerated a thing. As a matter of fact, I don't even know how we got on this topic.

[Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by MadPilot Your trigger-happy pilots repeatedly fired upon allied troops because they weren't even trained to recognise them.

 

What about the troops on the ground that told the pilots the wrong coordinates? It couldn't possibly have been their faults at all.. Oh wait. IT WAS.

 

Pilots do not get orders to prowl about and shoot at anything that moves. They orbit the area and are tasked by central command (which was in Qatar) to move to an area where air support has been requested. Then they are handed off to the guys on the ground. The guys on the ground are to say their coordinates, the enemy coordinates, and their own coordinates again. There have been numerous times there guys on teh ground said the wrong coordinates or mixed up the order. This happened in a certain training incident in which some Canadian and New Zealand troops were killed by a US bomb. We have this thing called "Human Error." it happens. Sometimes people die.

 

What about the Patriot missile system that shot down an allied aircraft? Why the hell were they firing at planes in the first place when Iraq don't have any?

 

Firstly, there was an Iraqi Air Force. However, they were far too smart to get into the air, where they faced certain death. They learned from Desert Storm. In fact, in Desert Storm, the Iraqi Air Force largely disobeyed orders and abandoned their fighters on the ground or high tailed it to Iran. Secondly, the Patriot system is supposed to engage anything it sees that isn't an allied aircraft. The F-16 that was shot down had a faulty transponder. Therefore the missile interpretted it as an inbound missile. It was an automated system. The system performed flawlessly. At no point does any human fire the missile. They merely monitor it to see if the robot is working. It was. Unfortunately, the aircraft malfunctioned and the pilot was killed.

 

I suggest you "get a ****ing clue" before you think about anything again.

[Jem]

I don't think further troops weapon-training will help much, maybe they should just make those weapons user-friendly. Add some tuturials here and there and a screen with pop-up messages that come out now and then with "Did you know that..." messages. Maybe they could add a "Weapon Assitant" like Word's "Office Assistant". But you wouldn't have the option to ignore it.

Then they will learn...

 

 

Originally posted by MadPilot

I never said they didn't. I just can't understand why you all seem to be so obsessed with exaggerating your military capabilites.

Yeah.

 

 

Originally posted by Kylilin

As a matter of fact, I don't even know how we got on this topic.

 

We got into this subject because I made the silly mistake of using military technology as one of my examples and someone got trigger-happy.

 

 

*Silly attempt to try and change the silly subject:*

 

 

Originally posted by ?

 

I wasn't talking about expanding military but military technology. Which is a field that's silly to be boasting about. I just mentioned the military field for an example, now it became the main subject.

 

Funny how everytime the word "military" is pronouced americans will pop up asking "Someone called?"

 

I applaud a nation who's Medecine Technology and accessability are above satisfaction and I am not impressed by one who wastes ridiculous amount of energy and resources on military instead of investing it on resolving it's increasing parenting, poverty and unemployement problems (Close to 35 million of americans live under the poverty line). These problems are real and important: 20% of american kids live in poverty and in the Midwest, 5% suffer from hunger. Poor Health-Care access makes it worst.

 

[Kylilin]

I applaud a nation the implements the Marshall Plan, which rebuilt Europe after it was torn apart by the greatest war the world had ever seen, and hopefully it will rmeain the greatest war the world had ever seen. I applaud a nation who gives weapons to Britain and Russia to fight a war aginst Germany knowing thet they would never be paid back. I applaud a nation who blocked the attempts at world wide domination by the Soviet Union at every turn, every step, whether it is a good decision or a bad one. I applaud a nation who feeds more people in this world than any other two countries combined. I applaud a nation who lends money to almost any country willing to ask. Its funny how all those things describe the United States in which so many people hate.

 

Funny how everytime the word "military" is pronouced americans will pop up asking "Someone called?"

 

Thats because when something wrong happens in this world, the United States is the first one willing to throw down and offer some help.

 

The Unites States has its flaws, many, many flaws as a matter of fact. So what if we protect our interests? Anyone who says any other country would act differently is either horribly blinded from the truth by idealism, or a liar. Yeah, we sometimes stick our collective noses where it doesn't belong, in fact, more often than not we do. But would you rather us sit idly by and do nothing? When the poop really hits the fan, who does the world turn to? It seems like you only know us when you need us.

[Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by Jem

I am not impressed by one who wastes ridiculous amount of energy and resources on military instead of investing it on resolving it's increasing parenting, poverty and unemployement problem

 

The defense industry puts bread on the table for tens of millions of workers. Cutting military spending to redirect it to social programs would actually make the situation worse.

 

Observe (i made up the numbers):

1) 35 million people need $10 billion worth of assistance

2) The defense department loses $10 billion from its budget, cancels F-35, USS Reagan, Seawolf, and optical camoflague projects

3) Civilian contractors lay off seven million workers

4) 42 million people need to find a way to divide up enough money for 35 millioin people

[MadPilot]

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

Pilots do not get orders to prowl about and shoot at anything that moves. They orbit the area and are tasked by central command (which was in Qatar) to move to an area where air support has been requested. Then they are handed off to the guys on the ground. The guys on the ground are to say their coordinates, the enemy coordinates, and their own coordinates again. There have been numerous times there guys on teh ground said the wrong coordinates or mixed up the order. This happened in a certain training incident in which some Canadian and New Zealand troops were killed by a US bomb. We have this thing called "Human Error." it happens. Sometimes people die.

 

 

I understand that, and I'm fully aware that war is a messy business. My point is that there aren't enough safeguards to reduce the number of these errors. The emphasis is always on "bigger, faster and stronger" and to hell with the consequences. The fact remains that training pilots to recognise friendly units would help.

[AzureAngel]

to MadPilot:

The fact is that it can be human error but unfortunatly it usually isnt the pilots fault when they kill friendlys now. It often is their flight commanders job to update the front line via the "killbox" system. This means anything within lets say, a 5 mile radius is considered hostile and is to be killed. However if the commander does NOT update this map frequently enough the pilots will soon be shooting friendlys without knowing it. And besides its kinda hard to read someones name tag at 350 mph

 

to Nute:

Sadly in the world we live in we cant just throw down our weapons and give the left over money to the impovrished. It wouldnt work. but for this discussions sake lets say we did become a pacifist nation.

we stop developing weapons. After having done this the countries enemys would see our vunerability and exploit it to theri best ability with who knows what.

[Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by MadPilot

I understand that, and I'm fully aware that war is a messy business. My point is that there aren't enough safeguards to reduce the number of these errors. The emphasis is always on "bigger, faster and stronger" and to hell with the consequences. The fact remains that training pilots to recognise friendly units would help.

 

Training wouldn't do much, on the pilots end. Its the guys on the ground that messed up. THEY are need to double check their coordinates before they start calling in fire. They CAN'T recognize friendly units from altitude or at night. They can't SEE them. Hell, most weapons are standoff weapons and the pilots wouldn't be able to recognize anything, as they're miles away.

 

Originally posted by AzureAngel

to Nute:

Sadly in the world we live in we cant just throw down our weapons and give the left over money to the impovrished. It wouldnt work. but for this discussions sake lets say we did become a pacifist nation.

we stop developing weapons. After having done this the countries enemys would see our vunerability and exploit it to theri best ability with who knows what.

 

Oh most certainly if we went pacifist we'd get streamrolled. If one goes back in history and counts the pacifist nations, they'd come up with a short list. A very short list.

 

I'd love a world where we got to chuck all our weapons in the ocean and fix all the problems. World peace would be awesome. I'd love to go to Havanna and Baghdad to see the architecture. Kashmir is beautiful. Trekking through the Congo would be a blast. However, because the way reality is, I can't do to those places right now (and probable never in regard to the Congo) if I wish to continue to live or return home.

[AlphaGoaT]

The F-16 that was shot down had a faulty transponder. Therefore the missile interpretted it as an inbound missile. It was an automated system. The system performed flawlessly. At no point does any human fire the missile. They merely monitor it to see if the robot is working. It was. Unfortunately, the aircraft malfunctioned and the pilot was killed.

 

Actually, the aicraft shot down were a Tornado GR4/A and an F/A-18C. The Tornado is believed to have had a faulty transponder, the Hornet is not.

 

The F-16 incident was where the pilot fired a HARM at a Patriot battery.

[AzureAngel]

It doesnt matter if it was an F-16 or a friggin B-17 it matters that a friendly was shot down due to irresposible matinence on both the system and the human operated weapons it is to protect

[Zargon]

The F-18 pilot or mechanic failed to update his friendly code, he was vroadcasting the wrong ID code, so the patriot battery deemed him CORRECTLY as hostile, and shot his ass down.

 

In no way did the 'system' fail, unless you count the pilot/mechanic changing the code as the system. The patriot systems have operated beautifully, ever since they were put into service.

 

And will continue untill the nautilus system is ready to replace it..........

 

even then it will prolly continue as a backup anyways

[Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by AzureAngel

It doesnt matter if it was an F-16 or a friggin B-17 it matters that a friendly was shot down due to irresposible matinence on both the system and the human operated weapons it is to protect

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. The transponder acts independently of any human interaction (beyond turning it on and off) and the Patriot missile system is essentially a robot that decides when to shoot or not without a human doing anything.

[AzureAngel]

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. The transponder acts independently of any human interaction (beyond turning it on and off) and the Patriot missile system is essentially a robot that decides when to shoot or not without a human doing anything.

 

Planes Robots and Humans need one form or another its all cause and effect see??

The human was either preocupied and did not properly set its IFF code transponder

[Zargon]

Originally posted by AzureAngel

Planes Robots and Humans need one form or another its all cause and effect see??

The human was either preocupied and did not properly set its IFF code transponder

 

That's just not good grammar. yeah the PERSON messed up, not the weapons system, the patriot worked perfectly. This is like those retards who open blaster emails then bitch to Microsoft for them having a virus when it's their own fault they got it.......

 

One soldier from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment (search) was killed about 8 a.m. Thursday when his truck hit a land mine near the Husaybah border crossing point with Syria about 200 miles northwest of Baghdad, the military said.

 

Good thing we banned them landmines eh?