dead (lack of s/o ctf servers)

[eniaC]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

The casual gamer just wants to have a good time.

 

The competitive player wants a game of precision.

 

 

 

I want both, the more challenging to me is always better or I lose interest to soon, yet I'm a huge Star Wars fan and love playing the game for fun.

 

eniaC

[Prime]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

in episode 2 obi-wan did 2 jump kicks on jango in their fight scene... and he only had a single saber.

 

 

I think I must have missed the scene with all of the Kata's though.

 

True. All I am saying is that the reason people don't like those things isn't necessarily that because they can't defend against them.

 

"Fanboys" want the most effective attacks to be from the lightsaber swings (disregarding guns for the moment). Rightly or wrongly, I think you'll agree that katas (quick saber strikes) are closer to what are seen in the movies than pull-throw and grip-kick. But again, that was not my original point.

 

But damn your air-tight logic!

[Doctor Shaft]

I want the same kind of thing too EniaC, though probably not in the same particular flavor as others.

 

I have played another game called Starfleet Command II (oh no, it's our arch-enemy!! $t4r Tr3k!!!11oneoneone).

 

In this real time stradegy, well not really an "RTS", but anyway, in this game, matches between two skilled people can last up to 30 minutes. the average is more like 15 or 20, but if the odds go a little awry for you, matches can take a long time. I've had three on three matches that went on for well over an hour and a half, just managing ship power, maintaining speed, and keeping the right shield arcs in line.

 

However, while matches 'last forever', the fact of the matter is, if you start to bump and grind, or decide to just kind of rush in and hang around your opponent, your death will come to you in about 5 minutes. For this game, 5 minutes is pretty much instant death.

 

I like to play JO/JA the same way. I want skills and precision to be there, but I also want that feeling where once someone REALLY drops the ball, I don't need to fancy combo the crap out of em, it's just ended... done. It allows EVERYONE to play in a sense as well... as opposed to the ambidextrously, dedicated, gifted players. But who cares. I'll go to chop shop, everyone else will go to their selective place. All we can ask is for Raven to give everyone the means to go their separate ways. SDK, cvars for kick, and a bug fix. that is a lot to ask of course, but you know, they probably will only need ONE patch for that anyway.

 

Oh, and after looking at your avatar more carefully EniaC, and just looking at it saying "I know i've seen that somewhere"... yeah, rinoa's hand is hard to distinguish in such a small picture. Good game, not the best, but good.

 

Cheers.

[Kurgan]

And you still think JA isnt JK2 code copied over. Lol.

 

Red herring. I never said JA was entirely new code with nothing from JK2.

 

What do you mean by "code copied over"? Are you saying there's no Quake3TA code in JA either? Obviously there is, nobody's disputing that.

 

Anyway, this is the basis of my arguement.

They add a kata/butterfly/roll stab etc. Most of the professional community says they're almost useless moves for the fanboys. But thats fine. They realise there are other audiences that need to be accommodated. They don't start crying about kata's being one kill moves and how they should be removed.

 

Why did they add Katas? I'll tell you why... because they wanted to appease the people who WHINED because their bug exploitable spinning moves (the spinning backstab/slash and the spinning DFA) were removed!

 

If you recall in JK2 before the patches you had "stuck in place spinning" high damage moves! Lol, so if anything the katas are a return to that type of gameplay, not a departure from it. If "only n00bs" use katas, then "only n00bs" used spinning backstab and spinning DFA. It's the same thing, only this time they gave you PROPER ways to do spinning moves!

 

Actually I've seen plenty of (self-proclaimed) experts from the "professional" community of JK2 whining and complaining about JA. They want things changed back to the way they were in JK2.

 

I'm not naming names here, and some are worse than others, but these guys have been the most vocale in attacking the new things in JA.

 

They have a similar attitude as you, they are calling JA an "expansion" of JK2 and treating it like a patch. Thus they are angry that features were "removed" and things "changed."

 

Just because it uses the same engine doesn't mean its an expansion. It's not been marketed as one, despite what you keep saying. It doesn't require the original game to run either.

 

Are you going to call Elite Force an expansion of Quake3? They use the same engine and the same code base! Whoa!

 

Or is Soldier of Fortune 2 an expansion of JK2? It uses the same code base, was even made by the same team! Oh no!

 

Through my sarcasm you can see where I'm going here...

 

JA is not JK2 1.05, so once you stop expecting it to be, perhaps you'll be less angry.

 

But instead you go off about how people who like the changes must be "n00bs" and the game must be "n00b friendly" (because obviously intelligent proffessional players must want the game to be just like JK2).

 

They removed Flip Kicks and that makes the game less complex? Oh boy they removed one move and added dozens more... so you think that all the katas, the two new saber types, and all the tweaks mean nothing because Flip Kicks are gone and that changes your playing style?

 

And if you whip out the Sabers Only CTF thing again, sorry man, if that was the most popular game type in JK2 that only the best people played, it's not in JA, you'll either have to change your playing style or go back to JK2 (or make a mod). Again, that's like crying that JK2 isn't the same as JK1. Sure a lot of us professional JK1 players were sad when JK2 made changes to the gameplay, but we sucked it up and learned the new game. I advise the same thing here. Or else you're just going to spend the next 3 years (or however long it takes to make the new JK game with the latest Unreal tech or Doom3 engine) whining and complaining how the game sucks and is dying because it didn't cater to your needs like JK2 did.

 

As Mike Gummelt himself pointed out, most PC game sequels use the same engine as their predecessors. Heck, look at the Unreal series... they've been using different builds of the same engine since almost the beginning!

 

The main exception is Id Software, who developes a new FPS engine every 2.34 years and liscenses it out to all the companies (for a handsome fee of course) who can't afford to make a new engine for every game from scratch.

 

Raven can't win. Half the people want a new engine and a totally new revolutionary game that's a quantum leap over JK2. The other half want everything the same (It sounds like you WANT an expansion that's just a skin and map pack with no changes in gameplay at all). Maybe if they had the manpower time and money they'd release two games to please everyone, but they couldn't and they didn't. Oh well...

[eniaC]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

Cheers.

 

 

Cheers. Good Game.

 

:r2d23:eniaC

 

 

 

*edited*

Originally posted by Kurgan

Maybe if they had the manpower time and money they'd release two games to please everyone, but they couldn't and they didn't. Oh well...

[Kurgan]

Some people act like JA is just about saber dueling.

 

That's just as narrow minded as saying that JK2 is all about Sabers Only CTF.

 

Or if I said JA was all about Siege, it would be equally unfair.

 

We're talking about a subset of gameplay here, not the whole. Obviously there's more to the game than just one gametype or a variation on a gametype.

 

Obviously the developers put the time into creating a variety of gametypes and options, after they made the Single Player campaign (which took the bulk of their time and resources).

 

I bet you plenty of people bought the game, played through the SP campaign a few times and then put it down. Not everybody has a fast internet connection or is online gaming savy enough to be able to host a server or join games (despite the bugs).

 

For these "newbies" if it's not in a direct link to the MSN Gaming Zone or Gamespy Arcade they just don't play MP.

 

I too want MP to be the best it can be, but it's out of my hands, I'm just doing what I've done for rest of the games in the series, which is to take the good with the bad and learn what I can with what I'm given and ADAPT. If you don't agree, be my guest and make your mods that do it how you think it "ought to be" or go play JK2 or whatever game you think is so much better.

 

Comm539, you're being a total troll.

 

Do you honestly believe that insulting the majority of JA players will get you a patch that will turn JA into JK2 1.05?

 

So if we don't care about the loss of flip kicks and don't demand it be brought back, we must be n00bs who sucked at JK2?

 

Or we must be stupid, or we must be little kids.... oh wonderful.

 

And this will convince LA to let Raven make a patch that drastically changes gameplay back to the way it was in JK2, how?

 

Maybe I should just close this thread, it's clear your only intention is to continually insult people because they don't agree with you.

 

After all, this thread started with your erroneous claim that JA was "dying" because there were way more JK2 players than JA players and it was all because of "bugs" (which later turned out to be the tired well-worn 'Competative Play is Ruined Forever Because Flip Kicks are Gone' argument). And how many threads have we already had with this same argument from "angry competative JK2 players"? I'm sorry you're unhappy, but why beat a dead horse?

 

Raven has already gotten sent plenty of emails I'm sure from folks like you, and they're the people who have the power to make the changes, not us (though of course we all known that LA is holding the reins in the end).

 

Maybe you should go over to the RavenSoftware forums and see if your trolling convinces anymore people than it does here...