razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 This thread is for brainstorming for the actual saber system, not the visual components like the hilts, blades, etc. Those are discussed here. I've already called dibs on the saber system so the best ideas will be implimented by me when the SDK comes out for MotF/OJP. Anyone is welcome to help. I'll clear the floor and let others speak first before I give my opinons/ideas on the system.
Samuel Dravis Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 I liked the dodge meter from MotF, but it needs to have a slower regen if you're going to put it in JA. It gets frustrating to land the perfect blow 7 times in a row, only for the other guy to dodge.
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 Well, the dodge regen seen in MotF was all just prototype stuff. I never did get to the balancing point before I hit the engine limitation wall.
Samuel Dravis Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 OK. What were you trying to do that it wouldn't let you, anyway?
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 There weren't any free data slots so I could improve the animation system. I had the code writen but just didn't have the ability to quickly transmit them to the clients. Major suck. This has been fixed at my request in JKA.
Samuel Dravis Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 This has been fixed at my request in JKA. Swung some of that incredible modder weight around, eh? For the sabers, they need to stay mostly as they are, because if they style of fighting departs seriously from base JKA, people are not going to like it. Also, the saber locks while fighting. Having locks for under a second each time the blades connect would be awesome (this was stated in previous posts by others). Are you thinking of working on a dynamic animation system? Like if your saber hits the other guy's saber it would deflect a different way each time depending on the relative positions of both sabers?
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 Originally posted by Samuel Dravis Swung some of that incredible modder weight around, eh? Yeah, I guess. I'm the only one that I know of that complained about it directly so I assume I had a lot to do with it. For the sabers, they need to stay mostly as they are, because if they style of fighting departs seriously from base JKA, people are not going to like it.If it's fun and interesting, people will play it. If everyone listened to the vocal minority that acts like the world is ending when you change one thing, we'd still be playing with the same exact gameplay as original Dark Forces.Also, the saber locks while fighting. Having locks for under a second each time the blades connect would be awesome (this was stated in previous posts by others). Yeah, I'm going to shoot for dynamic saber locks...they'd happen freqently but not every collision. Plus, I think the saber locks need to be expanded to something more than just rapid button clicking. Something that takes more skill and strategy.Are you thinking of working on a dynamic animation system? Like if your saber hits the other guy's saber it would deflect a different way each time depending on the relative positions of both sabers?Well, not truely dynamic, that would require a pro team and a complete animation system engine rebuild. My system will be semi-dynamic. I'd still be using the same animations, just with dynamic start points and animation speeds. Combined with some fancy coding, we should be able to do some really cool stuff with teh saber system.
Samuel Dravis Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 If it's fun and interesting, people will play it.No doubt. Just don't mess the original stances up too much. Additional stances are always good though. Plus, I think the saber locks need to be expanded to something more than just rapid button clicking. Something that takes more skill and strategy. Perhaps make the sabers where they can slide up and down. You would have to concentrate on keeping it in the middle, or else. Yeah, I'm going to shoot for dynamic saber locks...they'd happen freqently but not every collision. Sorry, I didn't mean on every collision, just some of them. Well, not truely dynamic, that would require a pro team and a complete animation system engine rebuild. But, I thought that you were a pro! Who cares how long or how hard it is as long as it looks cool! If you hadn't guessed, I was just kidding... I know it'll look awesome.
keshire Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Yeah, I'm going to shoot for dynamic saber locks...they'd happen freqently but not every collision. Plus, I think the saber locks need to be expanded to something more than just rapid button clicking. Something that takes more skill and strategy. Either way your still stuck with pressng something. I'd recommend you go with a direction pressing scheme. Press up bring the lock up. press down bring the lock down. etc etc. press your directions in a circle, disarm. All the while the other person is trying for the same. This leads to a visual representation of what your actually doing. which is a bonus. Let certain combo's lead to different results. circle is disarm left,right is parry other combo's lead to the lock breaks intorduced in JKA. All the while the other person is trying to both prevent your combo and do his. Sorta like chess.
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking. However, from a technical standpoint, there's not much you can do while using dynamic locks, there simply isn't the animations for it.
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 Well, sure, there's enough animations for the actual saber locks but they wouldn't cover a bunch of possible dynamic saber lock situations. Ones where you'd have to violently move the players around to get into one of the saber lock animation sets. Maybe we could have it so that there'd be major saber locks and minor saber locks. The major ones would occur when both players are in positions that could easily blend into one of the saber lock animation sets. These would have a bit of a strategic button combinations to try to get an advantage over your opponent. The minor ones would occur if the sabers are in too odd of positions, the players aren't the right sizes (yoda/Jawas/etc), etc. These would be like the traditional saber locks where you just mash the buttons. The loser would lose some energy and possibly get knocked into a parry.
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 Well, we'll have to figure out how far the size varation can go before it totally frags the set saber lock animations.
bliv Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Not quite had the time to read the thread in full from top to bottom but I gather that you are trying to modify the system to make it more film like and involved more skill than the current system? If that is the case then a suggestion is that you remove the saber throw with all styles of saber and add the kick from the staff stance instead. But that is if you are going for a film like feel. Don't know if this qualifies for this thread but if you are looking for stance ideas.....try an inverted saber stance?
razorace Posted November 15, 2003 Author Posted November 15, 2003 In my saber system, secondary fire will be for setting your block direction so kick/saber throw would be useable that way. I suggest that saber throw be turned into a force power that can be used from the force power menu.
Marker0077 Posted November 15, 2003 Posted November 15, 2003 Originally posted by razorace In my saber system, secondary fire will be for setting your block direction so kick/saber throw would be useable that way. I suggest that saber throw be turned into a force power that can be used from the force power menu. I don't like this idea. Force throw is already on the force power menu & I don't think you should swap out the block button with another button that's going to be used anyways, I think you should just add a block button. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with the current "if you are not attacking then you are blocking" system.
razorace Posted November 16, 2003 Author Posted November 16, 2003 Well, the problem is that there's no true way to "add new buttons" with the engine code. Besides, saber throw will be used a lot less often with the changes I'm going to make.
Emon Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 ...Why the hell not? You can make console commands, right? A button is just a key bound to a console command, which you add in a MENU file.
razorace Posted November 16, 2003 Author Posted November 16, 2003 console commands don't have the same network priority as actual buttons. There would be lag.
Emon Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 I doubt changing one action to a regular command could possibly lag the game up, even with a lot of players.
Marker0077 Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 there are a ton of +button commands, why not just use one of those?
razorace Posted November 16, 2003 Author Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Marker0077 there are a ton of +button commands, why not just use one of those? That might work but it would involve finding some open ones. However, Block would be on secondary fire either way, it makes no sense to have Block (a very often used button) on something other than secondary just to allow crazy old schoolers to have their traditional setup.
bliv Posted November 16, 2003 Posted November 16, 2003 I agree, and I'm starting to like the sound of your saber system idea.
BloodRiot Posted November 17, 2003 Posted November 17, 2003 Sounds Good so far Razor. What do you really think about getting rid of the stances and create one fully customizable stance where you buy the moves to create your own personalized style... this for all sabers of course... just like you buy the force points.
razorace Posted November 18, 2003 Author Posted November 18, 2003 Nah, probably not. That would be a lot of hassle and in the new system, the special moves will not have the same significance that they used it. They will probably just be to look cool.
razorace Posted November 19, 2003 Author Posted November 19, 2003 Is that all everyone has to say about the saber system?
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