Official Jedi Academy Bonus Map-Pack released!

[Kurgan]

As for spamming moves, the reality is that more and more servers are running faster force regeneration, so kata\butterfly\saber shield, and Force spamming is actually more widespread than you think.

 

That is a good point, but it's simply a matter of people being "spoiled" by custom settings.

 

It's not Raven's fault if people change the settings to be unbalanced.

 

For example it's perfectly possible to disable all Force Powers in Siege, making Jedi completely useless.

 

It's also possible to enable Jedi Vs. Merc on CTF servers, which is full of bugs (you don't use a team skin, and bot teammates attack you).

 

By default the sabers in JA (and JK2 1.04) are incredibly weak. They aren't very useful outside of duels since they are pretty crappy for taking out opponents. Basically they're just little shields you can carry around to ward off blaster shots.

 

By tweaking the saberdamagescale non Duelists can finally get sabers to how they were in JK2 1.02.. ie: an offensive weapon that can actually kill people (including other saberists) on an all weapons server.

 

The default setting for mana regeneration is just fine, because it prevents spamming. But since people don't want to wait for their mana to charge up or run out they change it to 0, and this leads to spamming and whining.

 

I agree with you that people get spoiled by custom settings.

 

I remember in the JK2 days I had people join my server and demand to know why /amsit wasn't working!

 

(Hint: It was because they were so used to using JediMod and other Admin Mods they assumed it was a default JK2 feature!).

[JDKnite188]

Wonderful! New maps! H3ll yeah!

 

They look great, but I am saddened by no appearance of a siege map in the package . . .

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

Something strange\interesting happened on Chop Shop CTF-FFA about a week before the Bonus Map Pack was released. Someone named "Raven Software 1.01 Tester" came on the server and started asking players...

 

As far as the bonus maps go, I say coincidense. There is NO WAY, those maps were made in one week.

 

As far as a 1.02 for JA, Raven snuck out 1.04 for JO When no one believed there would be another patch, so I guess anything is possible.

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by razorace

Agreed, while talking with Rich Whitehouse (the MP coder),...

In addition, for JK2, we only received the SDK when they were done patching the code...Plus, why would a subcontracted QA tester be testing on a online 1.01 game for a newer patch when they probably have inhouse servers for just this purpose?

 

Here is some history about Raven and patches. Way back in JO there was a mod by Nova called Unofficial 104. You can read about it and download it at the Massassi Temple here: U104

 

It nerfed the backstab/sweeps so they were no longer 1 hit kills, removed the "float down" in blue stance from high places to avoid damage and also nerfed the backflip into blue finisher where the backflip had to be completed before the blue finisher could be initiated. Nova made this by recompiling the source code because of the issues in 1.03 and because a lot of the community felt Raven was not going to release another patch for JO.

 

Shortly after "Unofficial 104" was released and some server ops started using it (anyone remember Zerowingzero's server?), Raven released the "Official 1.04 patch". My point? We all heard the "so and so at Raven" said there will not be another patch dozens of times after 1.03 but Raven did release a 1.04. So JA may indeed see another patch before it's over.

[kmd]

Originally posted by Kurgan

Lot of secrets on these maps... Rift of Shadows for example.. smash the cracked walls for secret areas (Force Boon + Merr Sonn).

 

Conquest of Byss has some breakable glass and you can turn off the Force Field (switch by the Disruptor up the elevator).

were is that button to destroy the shield? what elevator, there are many

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by Darth Kaan

As far as the bonus maps go, I say coincidense. There is NO WAY, those maps were made in one week.

 

Of course they weren't. But what if they were being worked on as part of the original game, but just weren't done in time for the original release, or even in time for the 1.01 patch? Or the 1.01 patch was to be for bugfixes only per LucasArts. So they finally finished them and were hanging on to them for the 1.02 patch, the first patch that is going to be more than just bugfixes (in JK2, one of the patches, I don't know which, added 4 new duel maps). Then they get feedback from their testers saying "#1 request: more maps" (it was always my #1 request, we still need about 4 more CTF maps and half a dozen more Siege maps). So they say "well, these maps were supposed to have been in the original game release anyway, and aw heck, it's Christmas, just put them out there, don't wait for the patch in April". More plausible?

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by razorace

Plus, why would a subcontracted QA tester be testing on a online 1.01 game for a newer patch when they probably have inhouse servers for just this purpose?

 

When McDonald's or Burger King wants to know what people think of a new product, what do they do? They send surveyors out to get a random sample of customers to find out what "the man in the street" thinks about their product.

 

I think Raven learned from the JKII:JO 1.03 patch to ignore the vocal minority at places like this forum, and find out what the average player in the "real world" thinks and what things are like on real servers where people are messing around with cvars in crazy unexpected ways.

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

Of course they weren't. But what if they were being worked on as part of the original game, but just weren't done in time for the original release, or even in time for the 1.01 patch? Or the 1.01 patch was to be for bugfixes only per LucasArts. So they finally finished them and were hanging on to them for the 1.02 patch, the first patch that is going to be more than just bugfixes (in JK2, one of the patches, I don't know which, added 4 new duel maps). Then they get feedback from their testers saying "#1 request: more maps" (it was always my #1 request, we still need about 4 more CTF maps and half a dozen more Siege maps). So they say "well, these maps were supposed to have been in the original game release anyway, and aw heck, it's Christmas, just put them out there, don't wait for the patch in April". More plausible?

 

I totally agree. Especially about needing more CTF and Siege maps.

[Kurgan]

Amidala, the infamous JK2 1.03 patch added four new duel maps.

 

But of course the patch was so controversial, almost right away somebody released a "pack" for 1.02 that was just the new maps.

 

These duel maps were based on SP locations (much like the maps in the bonus pack).

 

 

These maps were started after JA went gold, so they were probably done for awhile and they were just waiting for the right time to release them (or maybe got sick of waiting for LA since the patch was just bug fixes).

 

So far LA has yet to acknowledge the Mappack, but oh well. We've got it and it's fun.

 

 

were is that button to destroy the shield? what elevator, there are many

 

Okay, go to the center of the map, at the big blue shield on the floor, where the Merr Sonn is sitting. Now LOOK UP to the elevator. You'll see several "windows" on the various floors and one of them has a little "boxy" thing sticking up, that's the switch (viewed from the other end). Go up the elevator to that switch and throw it, the shield goes down.

 

You'll know you're in the right elevator, because one of the "floors" on it has a Disruptor.

 

And it doesn't "destroy" the shield, it only turns it off for a few seconds.

[kmd]

 

 

 

Okay, go to the center of the map, at the big blue shield on the floor, where the Merr Sonn is sitting. Now LOOK UP to the elevator. You'll see several "windows" on the various floors and one of them has a little "boxy" thing sticking up, that's the switch (viewed from the other end). Go up the elevator to that switch and throw it, the shield goes down.

 

You'll know you're in the right elevator, because one of the "floors" on it has a Disruptor.

 

And it doesn't "destroy" the shield, it only turns it off for a few seconds. [/b]

thanx!

[razorace]

Originally posted by Darth Kaan

Here is some history about Raven and patches. Way back in JO there was a mod by Nova called Unofficial 104. You can read about it and download it at the Massassi Temple here: U104

 

It nerfed the backstab/sweeps so they were no longer 1 hit kills, removed the "float down" in blue stance from high places to avoid damage and also nerfed the backflip into blue finisher where the backflip had to be completed before the blue finisher could be initiated. Nova made this by recompiling the source code because of the issues in 1.03 and because a lot of the community felt Raven was not going to release another patch for JO.

 

Shortly after "Unofficial 104" was released and some server ops started using it (anyone remember Zerowingzero's server?), Raven released the "Official 1.04 patch". My point? We all heard the "so and so at Raven" said there will not be another patch dozens of times after 1.03 but Raven did release a 1.04. So JA may indeed see another patch before it's over.

 

That's because the patch code was already done. It was in the SDK when it was released. Nova might have taken credit for it, but it was definitely not his work.

 

I think there might have been one major bug fixed between the SDK and the v1.04, but it was minor at best.

 

Right now, the SDK has nothing in it beyond 1.02. That's a bad sign. Especially combined with what I said before.

 

When McDonald's or Burger King wants to know what people think of a new product, what do they do? They send surveyors out to get a random sample of customers to find out what "the man in the street" thinks about their product.

 

I think Raven learned from the JKII:JO 1.03 patch to ignore the vocal minority at places like this forum, and find out what the average player in the "real world" thinks and what things are like on real servers where people are messing around with cvars in crazy unexpected ways.

 

If that's true, it wouldn't be a QA tester doing that sort of research; it would be someone at Raven or in marketing. Otherwise, it would be like asking the janitor to do marketing surveys.

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by razorace

That's because the patch code was already done. It was in the SDK when it was released. Nova might have taken credit for it, but it was definitely not his work.

 

Nova did not take credit for it. He said all he did was compile the source code.

 

After server ops started using U104, THEN Raven released the official 1.04 patch.

[SpaceButler14]

I don't think we'll get a patch. Raven has not been responsive. Look at how long it took to get a patch. The LA keeping it down doesn't make a lot of sense to me to be honest, and I found in my own dealings with Raven, trying to get some sort of a response from them, that they are not concerned. Anway, anyone else with the ffa maps were just a little smaller? It takes forever to get to the action now.......

[razorace]

Originally posted by SpaceButler13

I don't think we'll get a patch. Raven has not been responsive. Look at how long it took to get a patch. The LA keeping it down doesn't make a lot of sense to me to be honest, and I found in my own dealings with Raven, trying to get some sort of a response from them, that they are not concerned. Anway, anyone else with the ffa maps were just a little smaller? It takes forever to get to the action now.......

 

To defend Raven, they've alway been very responsive to me. In fact, you can tell that some of them actually stop what they are doing (coding) to answer questions. However, this ONLY works when you ask questions that they can reasonably answer.

 

Due to way things work, they are NOT going to tell you something that their marketing department choose not to announce (like the release date for patches) or something that would require a huge amount of effort to do (like extremely broad/vague coding or something so technical that they'd have to look into it).

[razorace]

Originally posted by Darth Kaan

Nova did not take credit for it. He said all he did was compile the source code.

 

After server ops started using U104, THEN Raven released the official 1.04 patch.

 

Ok, I'm sorry. You had made it sounds like Nova was trying to take credit for it.

[Kurgan]

I don't think we'll get a patch. Raven has not been responsive. Look at how long it took to get a patch. The LA keeping it down doesn't make a lot of sense to me to be honest, and I found in my own dealings with Raven, trying to get some sort of a response from them, that they are not concerned. Anway, anyone else with the ffa maps were just a little smaller? It takes forever to get to the action now.......

 

Note: I'm not a lawyer or a proffessional game developer. I don't really consider myself an "industry insider" either, I'm just a game fan/hobbyist who occasionally talks to people in the industry. So if I'm off base, feel free to correct me, but this is just my experience here.

 

In all my dealings with Raven (and to be honest, this is basically summed up as talking to Mike Gummelt over email, since I can count the times I've talked to other Raven team members on one hand) I've had the idea continually reinforced that it's LA that calls the shots.

 

Why?

 

Because LucasArts is the gaming wing of LucasFilm. LucasFilm is George Lucas's company that executes his will over the control of his hottest property.. the Star Wars franchise.

 

With this in mind, it's not suprising that LucasArts deals with liscensing the property to gaming companies that want to make SW games, like Raven Software.

 

Raven is a smaller company, with less money and resources, but they obviously have skills impressive enough to be allowed to make a game like Jedi Academy.

 

That also means that whenever they do something "officially" (like release a patch) they can't just release it on a whim, like they theoretically can with their own games (like Soldier of Fortune II).

 

They have to go through LA to do that stuff, and obviously LA takes their sweet time and makes the decisions perhaps without a full appreciation for what the developers in the trenches have to do. Their only concern is keeping the franchise protected and executed (as they deem it) properly to maximize profits.

 

In fact Raven deals with multiple liscenses all the time. They already use liscensed engines exclusively (or nearly), and they deal with liscensed properties like Quake and Star Wars.

 

That they thus don't have full creative control and don't have full PR control is not surprising.

 

They virtually can't make a move it seems without consulting LA, which is not always as forthcoming as we'd all like them to be.

 

LA has softened a bit over the years, extending more to fans and being less heavy handed in their dealings with us, but obviously there's still a lot of red tape and such that people like Raven simply have to deal with.

 

If this was not a SW game, supporting it would be far easier.

[SpaceButler14]

Or maybe they're just too busy working on Quake IV.... I also am not one of those people wanting gameplay adjustments. I just wanted a server browser that worked and I still have a sour taste in my mouth from the reply I got to perfectly polite, though not exactly positive, emails.

[Kurgan]

But, that same logic would also state that Soldier of Fortune II should have been crappy since they were "too busy working on Quake IV" right?

 

It's just that to work with the SW liscense necessarily forces them to walk on eggshells around LA and do what they (LA) want, when they want.

 

 

Btw, love your sig. ; )

[SpaceButler14]

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that they'd be putting much more time into Quake IV more recently than most of the SoF stuff, and that stuff they might still be doing for that would be part of an ongoing thing that happened before a shift of emphasis. I at least don't put any faith in Raven after this.

 

That was the first thing I thought when I saw the new (jk2) katarn model. It's him down to the hair, minus the chins.

[Kurgan]

Well the thing is they started work on JA almost immediately after they were done with JK2 (by that I assume all the patching and such).

 

In the meantime they've done two games simultaneously.. Soldier of Fortune II (which was on the Q3 engine, remember SOF was on Quake 2) and Jedi Academy.

 

On top of that they have Quake IV in the works.

 

I'm just saying that if Quake IV kept them from doing JA right, it should also have kept them from doing SOF 2 right.

 

They aren't idiots, they have the faith of LucasArts in them as a contracted company riding on each game they do for them. Do you think they'd deliberately screw it up?

 

 

PS: The Concussion Rifle on "Conquest of Byss" is easily found. Find the series of elevators that goes up and up (not the ones with the force field switch/disruptor.. but the other one, that is just past the cubbyholes with the Ammo Recharge Station and Flechette pickups). Continue following the lifts up until you get a large rectangular lift (the others you've seen are square lift platforms). Take that one up and you'll eventually come to a big semi-enclosed room that has the Concussion Rifle! You can hop up on the railing to snipe down a people.

 

That map really has a ton of ammo. Nothing like shooting an entire clip worth of Merr Sonn missiles at your foes, then, just when they think it's safe and you're all out of rockets (as the Clone pilot would say), you whip out the concussion rifle and drown them bluish-purple death. ; )