keshire Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Some thoughts. seven directional blocking: I think this may be a bit much. In the heat of battle I have problems choosing which way is the best block. Having just left/right would narrow it down a lot bit. Then have the code choose which one to use from there. Up/down/diagonal. And slowing down the transition from direction to direction would give it a better feel. I see you slowed down swings. The slow down is disproportionate. Evening them out would be better. Also, crouch+forward attack, jump+forward attack, and specials are unchanged. I'm sure you'll get around to it but I thought I'd point it out. Also it may be a bit too slow. Even on blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Excuse me... but i think both of are are missing a very important point... attaking should keep you from running as well. You see jedi running and attacking? Sure you see, if it's a quick side swiipe to quickly finish off non saber users like the battle droids, but on a duel they will run up, indeed make a slash as they approach but then everything is just a bit of leg work and not running. If the attacker is allowed to run and the defender isn't.. then you got an almost stationary target with a hammering oppoenent straf running around in and out of it. On the other hand if both are allowed to run, then things wont be much diferent that they are now. That said, you code boys do as your hearts tell you to. Cheers all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Double posted...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 I think that was a given. Run and strafing need to be limited in some way. Like a sprint button or stamina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 If the attacker is allowed to run and the defender isn't.. then you got an almost stationary target with a hammering oppoenent straf running around in and out of it. If you've played Movie Battles recently, you'd know this isn't the case. With blocking ability significantly enhanced over any blocking ability you have when running, straf running around in and out isn't an effective tactic - at all - period. You quickly die. To have a decent chance, BOTH players need to block, and attack each-other from close range, trying to find a gap in the others defenses. With directional blocking, this gameplay dynamic will be enhanced all the more. I don't need to discuss this in a theoretical manner - I know this is the case. ...but in anycase, Razor is free to do as he likes for the OJP system, and I'll be modifying it somewhat for MB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Yes but you also incorporated a sprint button did you not? One where you have to rest an equal amount of time once let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Well, before I talk about sprint, it's worth saying that I'm not sure whether I will be including the sprint button into MB II anymore. I'm thinking about it at the moment. But anyway, yes - the sprint button allows you to defend and run (slower than normal run btw) for a few seconds, then you have to rest. In MBII, this would mean you can't attack, only defend. ...so it's a viable tactic if you want to use it, but it has serious drawbacks - it gives your enemy several seconds of time where he knows you can't counter-attack OR run anywhere (even if he let's go of block), and they REALLY CAN pound on you without fear of getting hurt themsevles. As I say though, might not be in anwyay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 I don't really think an additional run button is nessicary. I think it would be easier on players to just use run as if it is sprint. Assuming that you can automatically deflect bolts at lesser rate while running and that you can Dodge the undeflected ones, you should be able to run down gunners without too many problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Yeap - I think I agree... I'm leaning more and more towards not including the sprint button into MB II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 I also agree... also with Stamina... normal run WILL work as a bit of a sprint as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 maybe its just my game or is the sabers going at like the slowest speed imaginable, it takes about 3-5 seconds for a swing to finish, please make the block auto block, i understand that there will be less skill involved for that happening, but slowing down the sabers to a minute crawl isnt the answer, maybe its just me, but if the sabers are supposed to attack for 5 seconds then please change, otherwise tell me what i must do to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Adjust g_saberanimspeed 1 is the game's default but I'd adjust it .75 I think razor has it set to .25 for testing purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 Well, I originally set it to .25 because I figured that novices would need that sort of speed to be comfortable doing manual blocking. However, it turns out that it's pretty easy to manually block with .5 so I have changed the default to .5 for the next beta release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 i think that directional blocking should be changed to some degree, sometimes its somewhat difficult to actually determine which attack your opponent is using all the time. the block button should auto block and doing the right direction with the block should grant you a parry. blcoking aganst duals and staffs will be a little tricky otherwise. id also like to test the system with another person, if anyone is up for it tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 yep, left/right and up should do fine. the diagonals need to go. But then I'd definately put in the feint attack you were talking about to even it back up on the side of skill versus arcade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 I basically agree but unfortunately, those are the only parry/block animations we have. If we ever get to the point of creating new animations, there's a LOT of stuff that could be done to enhance the saber system. There's already an autoblock system set up, it just doesn't work very well yet. I think I need to increase the number of situations where it works. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to come up with a thought process on how exactly I'll get the autoblocking to drain points from the dodge system. In addition, how much should it cost in terms of dodge? I think it should definitely cost less than the body dodges since you have to be not attacking to autoblock. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that autoblocking should be automatic as long as you're not attacking or doing something special. it's much easier that way and then we don't have to have seperate autoblock and manual block buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Are you planning on doing a one-or-the-other kind of thing with the auto-parries when the button is down and actual manual blocking, or are you planning on doing a combination of the system? Personally, I like manual blocking better than the system with the v.b4 where it's pretty much a "hold-down-the-button and you'll be fine" deal. I know it doesn't get the parry bonus after one second, but it doesn't seem to matter very much. Having to manually block (a) looked cooler, (b) was actually more skill-requiring, and © was actually more fun to play with. How are you planning on breaking it up? Don't get me wrong, I'll like it either way, but I think it takes a lot less skill with the almost automatic system of blocking in the parries... Also, are there further things that are coming as far as the "bouncing off instead of gross passthru" code, b/c unless it's only my and Soruss' PC's, we're still having that problem (at least I think it's him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 in my opinion, Autoblocking should only work when idle or walking/running. It should consume less dodge yes. It should work on all types of weapons (ranged and saber) in all situations. i'd limit it's effectiveness to make people not rely on it fully. Like Idle = 90% defense while there is enough dodge points, Walking = 75% and running =50% for instance. I'd definetly keep it as a safeguard NOT as an active autobloking defense that can last quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 The problem with the automatic autoblock was that it screwed up your ability to attack effectively. Also, I'm trying to make blocking skill based, not just some random chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 The problem with the automatic autoblock was that it screwed up your ability to attack effectively. Also, I'm trying to make blocking skill based, not just some random chance. Maybe some way to reduce the autoblock probability is all I can think of. I personally think the parry working as an autoblock button requires considerably less skill than the manual blocking did. What if you made is so that the autoparry was only enabled for projectile weapons that you couldn't manually block in time? Another question for you: what are you planning on doing with the specials/katas? My suggestion would be to leave them exactly as they are except for two points. First, (and this really clears up the second one) make the probability of dropped sabers with them way higher, just as it would be in real life doing that kind of move. Second, get rid of the view locking. Since there's a higher probability of dropping it, it balances this out and makes it worthwhile to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 Maybe some way to reduce the autoblock probability is all I can think of. I personally think the parry working as an autoblock button requires considerably less skill than the manual blocking did. What if you made is so that the autoparry was only enabled for projectile weapons that you couldn't manually block in time? Well, the main problem is that almost everyone that has play tested the mod wants to play with the saber animation speed up near normal base jka speed. At anything remotely that fast, manual blocking becomes too difficult. Another question for you: what are you planning on doing with the specials/katas? So far, I've removed the katas (will possibly re-add them later) and will replace their button combo (primary + secondary) with a counter attack system. The idea being that you can parry an opponent into a knockaway and then use a counter attack on them to either knock them off their feet or knock them away so you can engage another target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Ah. Okay. See, personally, I found that having it at about .75 worked well even with the manual blocking, but there's not much way at full speed to use it, obviously. That's too bad; I think it required a great deal more skill and ability; certainly one had to modify one's tactics more from JA base... I like the counterattack idea; I look forward to getting to play with that at some point in the future. I'll be interested to see what you do with the katas if and when you put them back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Well... after talking to razor i've been meaning to do some testing of my own. I just didn't find the time (or enough hard disk space to re-install JA for that matter). But I will, and I'll probably be more helpful after that. I could dish out several opinions...but they would all be conjecture and theories, while most of you already have the feel of what OJP is really like right now. One thing is for certain tho, If manual blocking can be done with some practice but not requiring an elite powergammer to be able to manage in a fight... then autoblocking should be kept to a minimum... since it seems likely that it will only serve to drag a fight and cause more trouble than it's porbably worth. The only real doubt I have is how does one block blaster fire? This is probably the only type of autoblocking I find worthy of implementing. I've been a lil out of the community so plz bear with me if i'm way behind on the subject. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 Ok, well, I just came up with an idea that might make manual blocking more managable. What if we made the manual blocking based on simple up/down left right quadrants? Basically instead of having to handle the 8+ quadrants of the current system, you'd have to worry about 4 positions. From there, the autoblock system would pick the correct quadrant from the availible quadrants. If you do it correctly, you'll parry the attack. If not, you'll take a fatigue or dodge hit and simply block the attack. It's skill based and not totally impossible to do ingame or code wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB1 KNOB Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 That sounds great! It sounds like it could be a good balance of manual blocking and automatic without making it overly complicated, difficult, and unnatural. I'd definately try it out. You mention the 4 quadrants for blocking. Does this include blocking on the sides and the back with the new animations keshire is making or are you just starting off with blocking in the front for simplicities sake to see how it plays out? (Just Curious) Is this only for saber combat blocking? (That's my recommendation since I think it would be too difficult and too much of a hassle to have to block lasers manually in the quadrants. Predicting where they'll be and blocking a succession of lasers would be hard...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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