fattysbox Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Alright, here is a post I hope will get some good discussion going... What REALLY is the origin of the universe? Something I've always been interested in, as well as almost all mankind. Of course, we have all the gambit of theories from a religous creationist point of view, to scientifically dogmatic view of the "big bang". Unfortunately, no one theory provides enough and decisive proof. It seems more and more to me a belief and faith driven feeling than anything else. Since I work as scientist (virologist/biochemist), I tend to lean towards the proof given to the big bang. One compelling evidence is the background radiation that still exists today from the start of the big bang. However, no one knows what was before the universe, therefore how could the origin ever take place? Curios what other people feel on this subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Originally posted by fattysbox What REALLY is the origin of the universe? If I knew that, I'd be ALOT more wealthy. I also tend to lean towards the scientific/Big Bang approach. I think there's more evidence towards this theory (like you mentioned). Mind you, I haven't had a religiously-influenced life, so obviously I see myself believing in this kind of theory more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 The big bang originated from a ball of energy. Do you mean how the ball of energy came to be formed? I wonder about that too. Since energy cannot be created, and it can only be transformed from one form to another, then everyone can easily deduce that this energy came from an outside source. But what is this source? And, no, I do not believe in things like gods sneezing the universe out of their noses. I think that's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen But what is this source? And, no, I do not believe in things like gods sneezing the universe out of their noses. I think that's nonsense. You basicly just answered your question... You think that God is nonsense but somthing must have created the big bang? what if the big band was God? or God is the beggining of everything and created the big bang? just as probable as energy comming for nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 what if there was not only ONE "big bang"? what if a so called "big bang" is something "normal" that happens in the "universe", just like black holes, stars etc ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Originally posted by RayJones what if there was not only ONE "big bang"? what if a so called "big bang" is something "normal" that happens in the "universe", just like black holes, stars etc ..? I suppose the Universe originates from the big bang. Who knows, there might be other universes out there. We don't exactly know whats outside the Solar System except what we can see through the telescopes, and even that is not a very good estimation, for the light from Sirius for example is X lightyears away from us. It means that what we are seeing now is what Sirius was like X years ago. I'm sidetracking a bit I suppose..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen I suppose the Universe originates from the big bang. Who knows, there might be other universes out there. yes, maybe "our" universe originates from "our" big bang. other universes maybe not. and just analogue to the "birth" of stars the "birth" of a "universe" maybe more or less of "success". one other there is that there is no "big bang" as we know it and that one universe "flows" into another through a black hole (so the "big bang" whould/should be more called something like "white hole"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattysbox Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 I tend to think of it (belief I suppose) as a ever continous cycle of expansion/deflation. In other words, the universe expands so much to the point that the forces causing the expansion are lost, which allows for the universe to collapse on itself, thsu creating another big bang. This big bang sets off another inflationary period and the cycle resumes again. Of course I have no evidence to prove this but when you look nature, there are so many processes that function as a cycle. Everything from the seasons, animal migration/reproduction to the birth of stars. It means that what we are seeing now is what Sirius was like X years ago. I'm sidetracking a bit I suppose..... To expand on that: So if we are looking at a star X years ago, how can we fully predict the current state of the universe? We can only observe what the universe was like billions of years ago and not currently... And, no, I do not believe in things like gods sneezing the universe out of their noses. I think that's nonsense. Without the proof, who is to say what god is or what he did... Without proof you can't rule anything out, including god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prism Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 i kind of believe the big bang theory, but my question is..if it created the universe, why do scientists say it was a ball of energy in the center of the universe that created the universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Because religion and origin of the universe cannot be discussed without circular reasoning... God created the universe - what created God? The BIG BAND created the universe - what created the big bang? Everything must have an end-beginning, if we our going to limit our self to our human comprehension. So we must have just happened... right? That’s more likely then there being a God... right? I mean that seriously... the chances of there being something that created us, and the chances that we came from Protein that evolved into a cell, is just as easy and likely to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by fattysbox I tend to think of it (belief I suppose) as a ever continous cycle of expansion/deflation. In other words, the universe expands so much to the point that the forces causing the expansion are lost, which allows for the universe to collapse on itself, thsu creating another big bang. This big bang sets off another inflationary period and the cycle resumes again. Of course I have no evidence to prove this but when you look nature, there are so many processes that function as a cycle. Everything from the seasons, animal migration/reproduction to the birth of stars. To expand on that: So if we are looking at a star X years ago, how can we fully predict the current state of the universe? We can only observe what the universe was like billions of years ago and not currently... Without the proof, who is to say what god is or what he did... Without proof you can't rule anything out, including god. I also believe that the universe is slowing down, and will eventually collapse upon itself as a Big Crunch, or something. I wonder what force is so powerful that it can hold back the universe....? About the god thing, you have a point there. But I am more liable to believe that a large explosion occured to create the universe, over gods sneezing the universe out of their noses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Noone said God sneezed a universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Lol it was simply an exaggeration of God creating the Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattysbox Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 I also believe that the universe is slowing down, and will eventually collapse upon itself as a Big Crunch, or something. I wonder what force is so powerful that it can hold back the universe....? Lambda. When Einstein created his original theory of special relativity he attempted to create an equation that described the universe - mathematically. However, his biggest problem was the equation never balanced itself out. In other words according to the unbalanced equation, the universe should be flying apart at the seams. In order to balance it, he introduced Lambda which is a simple constant to balance the equation and thus create a static universe that we live in today. Once he published this, people began to disagree that the universe was static - and inherently expanding faster and faster. This caused so much trouble that lambda was all but forgotten as a fudge factor until the recent development of "dark matter". This latter part I'm not sure of BUT people now think Einstein was right along and that LAMBDA balances the universe as it expands faster and faster. Which comes back to you original point about whether and when the universe will collapse on itself. All the evidence points to an expansion that is so fast that galaxies will extremely distant from one another. This lambda is supposed to hold the universe together as it expands. In other words take two bodies in space. They move farther apart from one another but the space between them warps and remains the same. Physicsts ( I hope) think lambda causes the warping of space between two objects. Who knows if the universe will ever collapse on itself. I like the idea that expansion will go so far that it causes the big bang. That is pure BS probrbaly and just imagination working for ya'!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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