BETA TEST: Bast Castle SIEGE

[DG_Thor]

Originally posted by [GT]SkylandeR«e

There is a big problem with your map .

We tested the unexpected EOF thing (what Thor SMC said).

We of the eGamer-Crew found out, that your map isn't compatible with any other downloaded Siege map, just siege_destroyer works with it.

Warehouse, eternal Lair and the Yavin map are causing errors, you can not play any longer Siege maps. But this error is just coming with your beta map, when it is installed in the base folder .

Better you find out where the problem is or many people won't be able to play this map...

greetz

#eGamer-Crew|SkylandeR

It's the Yavin map that causes the error - Bast Castle is compatible with all of the other maps you have mentioned.

 

At the moment, I have Eternal Lair, Warehouse Raid, Destroyer and Bast Castle installed - all work fine. They only cease to work if the Yavin map and Bast Castle are installed at the same time.

 

It could be either of those 2 maps which causes the error.

[[GT]SkylandeR«e]

I'm pretty sure that bthere is a problem with siege_bastcastle, too, because two of our member which had warehouse in there folder and don't have the Yavin beta, had the error until they have removed those other siege maps.

So there must be anywhere a bug or do you want to tell me it belongs to the warehouse map (can't be because your game works with it ).

[monsoontide]

Any ideas on what this error means?

 

EOF = End Of Field????

 

It'll be something to do with the SIEGE classes/teams which are a pian to set up 'cos if you put a foot out of place the whole fekin game fails to load.

[DG_Thor]

Afaik EOF means "End Of File". It's very likely that this has got something to do with the siege classes file - the group that is specified in the error message varies though, it isn't always the same group (e.g. not always "DarkJedi").

 

Strangely enough, i got the very same error yesterday when i tried to run the Movie Battles 2 Beta - and this although i had both Bast Castle and Yavin uninstalled. Only after I uninstalled Warehouse Raid and Eternal Lair as well I could get the Mod to work...

 

Strange error if u ask me

[TIE-pilot]

ethernal lair of suess and Warehouse raid SuXXXX... but... a YAVIN SIEGE MAP?!?!?! where can i download it?

And, in monsoontides map ISNT't a error. its the yavin map i think, because i got the following maps: Siege_destroyer, siege_destroyer2, siege_hoth, siege_korriban, siege_desert.

the map works fine, and the warehouse map and ethernam lair suxx³³³³

 

but a yavin map... where can i donwload it?

[[GT]SkylandeR«e]

TIE-pilot, i think you missunderstood something... It seems to be a general error, but atm we don't knwo what it causes..

Thor that is very strange because we have Movie Battles 2. It seems that there is a connection between Warehouse, MB2 and BastCastle.. But we could play MB2 when we had Warehouse, but at this time we hadn't BastCastle.. So i think we should test this: MB2 and BastCastle in the game, MB2 and Warehouse in the game. We had our error, when we had Warehouse, BastCastle AND MB2 in our game. You had the error with Warehouse and MB2, we not.. anywhere must be a connection between those maps..

very strange :S a confusing post^^

[TIE-pilot]

what the hell is MB2?!?

[monsoontide]

I'll ask Ford Dye over at levelforge if he can find out what's causing the error.

He can usually get a fairly good answer fromthe Raven guys within a couple of days.

[razorace]

Originally posted by monsoontide

Yeah... Bots aren't really supposed to be used in SIEGE games. I put them in so that it's easier to test by yourself.

 

Actually, I'm currently developing a bot that can play seige maps (and actually complete them) for OJP. I've currently gotten them set up so they can successfully destroy/defend the first valley gate on korriban.

 

If you're interested in having me add bot support to the objectives in your map, please contact me.

[Kurgan]

I hope none of this will be taken the wrong way, and obviously the map is far enough along that everything I suggest can't be done, but still.

 

Here's my comments after trying the map out with a friend.

 

1) The orange goo kills you instantly (fun for pushing people into it I guess), even if your foot touches the outer edge of the pool in that large room with the multiple levels. Either there shouldn't be a "spill over" so that it's level with the floor or else it should do less damage at the edges.

 

2) The corridors and walkways are so narrow (often without railings. So the fast Jedi character ("Jaden") often falls off unless she's walking. Is the extra movement speed really needed? I would think that 1.30 would be fast enough. It just adds to the frustration factor of the map.

 

I can imagine the way to defend this map is simply to push people all day long off ledges. This is especially bad for the Jump puzzles.

 

3) The elevators are going to be a major liability. Elevators shafts are notoriously easy to defend (drop any explosive into it as somebody is going through or place it in the shaft or on the top or bottom and you can hold it). Bots also tend to dislike any sort of lifts, so I don't envy you working those out either. Perhaps some other way to make it to the top... gusts of wind that lift the player, teleporters, a big platform that lifts up? (rather than a cramped shaft for one person) or a faster lift?

 

4) Hacking. Anyone can hack, so what's the point of having a Tech if this ability is for everyone? I can see you made the Tech a healer on the Jedi side, but still...

 

5) Team colors. In Siege the "natural" way it's done is to have RED be offense (attacking) and BLUE be defense (defending).

 

Instead you made the Red be defense and the Blue be offense. Maybe you wanted to go with the CTF colors from JK2, but the thing is, 2 out of the three Siege maps in JA have blue Imperials and Red rebels.

 

Some people might want to argue that JK2 had it right first, but remember that outside of these two games, the "Imperial Symbol" is usually blue, vs. the "Rebellion Symbol" is usually red, indeed if either of them are color coded (instead of being black, white, or gray)

 

Or maybe you thought that because the "bad guy skins" are all red, that this meant their team should be the red one. Again, in CTF you'll see that these skins all have a "blue" variant as well as a red one, so this shouldn't be a problem if you wanted to color code them. It just throws things off too much to have Blue suddenly be offense and Red suddenly be defense for Siege players (especially when you need a walkthrough guide to figure out how to go about the objectives which aren't obvious).

 

6) Class descriptions need to be revised. Many of the descriptions aren't accurate. For example you describe one class as having Trip Mines (when he really has Det packs) or you say that Jan Ors has no Force Powers when she clearly has Jump. I figure you probably revised the classes before you revised the text (even Raven slipped up there once in awhile in JA) but still, it just would make it a bit more polished if you revised those to reflect the current state of each class.

 

I found myself thinking the map had too many elevators (I guess in a tower that makes sense, but then where is the BIG elevator that goes straight to the top with a stop on each floor?), too many puzzles (instead of objectives) that felt more at home in a SP map than Siege. How are people expected to defend these?

 

I imagine the defense simply wandering around the map with sabers drawn, killing whomever they find or just camping a position and pushing people all day. Meanwhile the Defense play the map hunting through the puzzles in random order. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

That said I just want to say my criticism is meant to be constructive. I like many parts of the map like the shuttle interior you can walk through and the "castle" with its tall tower. Many nice touches in the map itself like the torture chamber and the conference room. The hologram of Mon Mothma is SCAAARY!!

 

Overall, very beautiful map (except for the orange "block" of goo and the cracked lava texture when you zoom out in spectator mode on the outside, but then again, most Siege maps look ugly and bad when you zoom out, since you're not normally supposed to do that!), I can see it getting many awards for the eye candy.

 

But overall it feels less like Siege and more like a Single Player map, being played in MP mode. It's too dark, too maze-like, and the objectives feel more like SP style puzzles. Jump puzzles, lots of long elevators (guess the right one!) and that tiny tiny pipe you have to find and then destroy (the health bar for it is so easy to miss).

 

Finally, this map takes a LONG time to load on my 2 ghz processor w/ 256 mb ram and over 100 gigs free disk space. It even loads long when I reload the same map. I know the map is detailed, but it's still something of a pain.

 

So with some work this could really be a good Siege map, even though I don't think I agree with the design philosophy. It's your map. The community needs more playable working Siege maps!

 

Good luck.

 

PS: Those two ships in the hangar.. once destroyed they don't seem to ever come back. Was that intentional? Or maybe I'm missing their true purpose...

[razorace]

I ran into a trigger_print fatal error when I attacked the loose panel in the prison area. It sounds like you don't have a debounce timer on that trigger.

[monsoontide]

??????? Loose panel prison area?

Can you post a pic or be more specific?

 

Also - the main problem as far as bot routing the level goes is the lifts/elevators.

[razorace]

It was the back wall on the second or third floor of the prison sector.

 

Secondly, my TAB bots can handle elevators fairly well, and I could make them work for your siege map fairly easily. Is it a push button thing or do they just have to wait for the elevator?

[monsoontide]

The elevators are all push button.

[razorace]

That should be no problem then.

[monsoontide]

In order to take care of some of the major problems, (Most notably the lifts), I'm working on a more comprehensive redesign to allow for larger lifts that should be able to hold up to 4 people.

Reworking the objective flow a bit more as well.

 

While the feedback has been pretty positive, I really thought a rethink of much of the design was in order.

 

To this end, the Jedi team will not find itself starting locked in the prison as before, but this time the prison will be at the TOP of the tower.

 

Most of the rooms will stay as before with a slight change in order.

 

The guard/torture room will now be under the prison chamber.

 

Some of the objectives will be changed/altered.

 

Redundant areas such as the hanger & entry hall are being removed/reworked.

 

I will post screenshots wen I've done a bit more work.

This should be the final release version with a post release update planned to take care of any unforseen problems.

[DG_Thor]

glad to hear you are still working on it, monsoontide

[monsoontide]

Here's something interesting!

 

Remember the turbo laser towers you have to deactivate as one of the objectives?

 

Remeber the hanger full of ships you couldn't fly anywhere?

 

Well, now you can! And to complete the turbo laser objective, you will need to fly one of the fighters around the castle and attempt to blow up the 8 turbo Laser cannons!

 

 

 

Objectives will now be completed in a 90% Linear fashion to eliminate confusion, starting at the top of the castle and moving down.

[Neo_Knight]

d00d, did you updated the anakinjsf with the 1.1 version i've just released ?

[DG_Thor]

Originally posted by monsoontide

Here's something interesting!

 

Remember the turbo laser towers you have to deactivate as one of the objectives?

 

Remeber the hanger full of ships you couldn't fly anywhere?

 

Well, now you can! And to complete the turbo laser objective, you will need to fly one of the fighters around the castle and attempt to blow up the 8 turbo Laser cannons!

 

 

 

Objectives will now be completed in a 90% Linear fashion to eliminate confusion, starting at the top of the castle and moving down.

don't wanna sound like a "fanboy" - but this is really awesome

[Alegis]

That's an awesome change monsoontide. I know for sure when this map is out ill play JA lots again

[monsoontide]

Should have some WIP progress pix of the changes posted tomorrow night.

[DG_Thor]

looking forward to it

[monsoontide]

OK, Pix tonight for sure. Sorry for the delay. Was hoping to get the lighting phase compiled but its taking just too long.

[lauser]

Hello again Monsoon. I'm still working on Endor. Although now it's a CTF Tactical as I just do NOT have the time to SIEGE it. But it is READY for SIEGE gametype. I have all the tree models tweek'd and ready. I have the objectives ready but will be FFA or disabled for now. I am scripting a few things for this map. Like the log roll trap for the ATST....etc. etc. I have a nice portal_sky to accent my new skybox! portal_skies RULE!! And thank ydnar for the ability to ASE!! I looooooove ASE files. It's just stupid they were not available before. I happen to glance at part of this thread that mention not being able to rotate MD3 models....which is NOT TRUE. I have seen it done in JK2. You should be able to do it in JA as well. Don't forget...entities func_rotate...model to also draw.

I also have an endor holomap. I made an MD3 and a shader for it. I have not tested whether it rotates yet or not. Maybe it needs scripting I don't know yet. Only difference is mine has the deathstar in orbit. Looks cool in Radiant