Darth Windu's NEW SWGB2 template

[Darth Windu]

Hi guys and girls. I have somewhat re-vamped my SWGB2 idea, the most major change being the reduction from 8 to 4 playable civs.

 

But anyway, you can go see it for yourself at http://www.geocities.com/icur_mmm/swagif.html?1081090046278

 

AFTER you have read it, please let me know what you think.

 

UPDATED 10/04/2004

[lukeiamyourdad]

OK:

 

 

1. Why do the Separatists get more armour and HP for their buildings?

 

2. Do the flame droids damage nearby allied units?

 

3. Same question for the Dwarf Spider Droid.

 

4. What is the meaning of this: All buildings fire automatically when not garrisoned?(Galactic Empire)

 

5. What's the point of having both the Tie Fighter and the Tie Interceptor if they're all the same with slighty different stats?

 

6. IF ARC troopers can cloak who can detect them?

 

7. Shouldn't snipers be unique to the Rebellion?

 

8. Lower the gunship carry capacity to 4 or lower. Since it's already a good weapon as itself, having such a high carry capacity makes it overpowered.

 

9. What happens when a Rebel Commando captures a building? Is the unit lost or can we re-use its ability?

 

10. Why not just give the B-Wing an anti-mech attack bonus? It seems that making them disable mech is a bit complicated for nothing.

 

That's all for now. I skipped some other points I wanted to make since they don't really matter.

[Admiral Vostok]

General

Stuff I like:

- City idea. Not bad.

- Weather, though if it occurs too often would get quite annoying.

Stuff I don't like:

- Why do the command versions have weaker weapons? That makes no sense.

- water transports. Don't take bad ideas from RoN. Especially when you can build air transports and fill them, it makes no sense to take an unrealistic shortcut to water transportation.

- Resources don't run out. This not only goes against realism but also makes bad gameplay.

 

Confederacy

Stuff I like:

- The command Droid normally gives bonuses to infantry, but can be put in an AAT to give the same bonuses to Mechs instead

Stuff I don't like:

- As Luke's Dad said, why do the Separatist buildings have more armour? They were made out of dirt in the movies.

- Where are all the Geonosians?

 

Empire

I find the Empire a little bland. They could be more interesting.

 

Republic

Stuff I like:

- Forward Command Center special ability. Fantastic. Really gives the Republic the flavour of the movies.

- Clone Speeder has anti-mech grenades... my favourite scene-not-in-the-movies

- Gunship capacity works for me.

Stuff I don't like:

- Clone Factory. That idea worked for Red Alert 2 because the Clone Factory actually made clones of each infantry guy you built. So one is the original, one is the clone, making an army of half originals, half clones. It doesn't work for Star Wars because every single clone comes from the same guy.

- I don't know where you got the idea that the Gunship is armoured. It has an exposed transport compartment! Combine this with the fact it is clearly slower than other aircraft we've seen and it would be possibly the weakest aircraft in the Star Wars Universe. Therein lies the answer to balance problems. It is not the AT-AT of the air.

 

Rebellion

Stuff I like:

- The Rebel Sniper is quite different to the Clone one.

- Units with R2s can self repair up to 50%

Stuff I don't like:

- Rebel Commander should be able to get in an X-Wing to give support to Aircraft like other civs do with Mechs.

[Darth Windu]

luke-

1. Good question - im not sure why, but im sure it's for a good reason

 

2. Do you mean when they fire or when they explode? When they explode, they do indeed damage nearby allied units, though only in a small radius

 

3. See above

 

4. Well, when buildings are Garrisoned, they fire right? Well for the Empire, the buildings will fire all by themselves, garrisoned or not, although ungarrisoned buildings dont deal out much damage

 

5. TIE Fighters are cheaper, and good for providing air cover for your forces, whereas the TIE Interceptor is somewhat more expensive and is best for attacking bombers before they get to your base

 

6. Jedi/Sith can detect all units, and im thinking of giving Officers/Commanders that ability as well

 

7. Possibly, but then there was a poll a little while back and the forum said they wanted Sniper's for the Republic instead of Repeater Troopers

 

8. The problem there is that you would then be able to put, for example, a grand total of 2 Jedi into one Gunship and that seems a bit low for me

 

9. The building then is useable by the Rebellion

 

10. Because that's the job of the T-47, besides, the B-wing isnt only useful against Mechs

 

Vostok-

General-

1. Command versions get weaker weapons because they need the room for communications gear, but also to discourage people simply making armies of Command AT-ST's for example. The Officer is a very useful unit, but needs to be protected

 

2. Water transports, this just seems to be the easiest way to do things

 

3. Resources - part of my strategy of concentrating more on battle, but like everything else it can be changed

 

Confederacy-

1. Dont know why i did that, i'll get back to you

 

2. I really dont see the Geonosians as part of the Seperatists, just as weapons manufacturers, and i just figured they werent needed, and would look out of place on the Galactic Battlegrounds

 

Empire-

1. Well, cant do much about that unless you tell me why they are bland

 

Republic-

1. Clone Factory - this building is there to represent the clone army, and also takes some of the burden of the clones off the player, considering they are the most expensive infantry in the game

 

2. I didnt say it was well armoured, just that it has some. As good as it is, if you send them out without starfighter support they will be slaughtered by fighters

 

Rebels-

1. Well, the only thing with that is that it's too complicated. I guess it could be done, but i think id prefer the Commander to be in a T-47 instead if i were to do it

[Admiral Vostok]

You should have used continuous numbering in your reply, Windu...

 

Comments on Windu's comments on my comments:

General

1. I'm not suggesting they get stronger, just that they don't get weaker. If they get weaker it will make people hide them rather than have them lead. Also I assume Officer auras aren't cumulative, so making an army of Officer Mechs would be rather pointless, and hideously expensive, so there isn't a problem there.

 

2. That is the easiest way to do water transports, it's true. That doesn't make it the best. Transporting units is supposed to be complicated, requiring a bit of thinking. Please don't take RoN's crappy answer to it.

 

3. If you want to concentrate more on battle, you should do things like C&C Generals does. They only have one resource which can run out, but late in the game you can build units or buildings that generate cash for you - much like the banking building the Confederacy have in your plan. This means early in the game resources are an issue, but late in the game they aren't at all. By the time you've run out of resources, you've hopefully set up enough credit-generating buildings or units that you are set.

 

Confederacy

4 (start continuous numbering). Okay, you had better get back to me...

 

5. Sure the Geonosians are manufacturers, but they are still a large part of the Confederacy. And they have such cool units it would be a shame not to add them. The Geonosian Fighter, Geonosian Warrior and Sonic Cannon at the very least should be included, and maybe the Picador, and Drone to have a second type of worker. My second favourite scene-not-in-the-movies sees a whole heap of Geonosian Warriors descending from the skies to attack a group of Clones. They should be there.

 

Empire

6. Well none of the units have any special abilities, the civ as a whole has no cool abilities... I don't know, just seems a little boring.

 

Republic

7. But the Clone Factory doesn't make any sense! You aren't cloning each Clone Trooper, you're cloning just the one guy! Some ideas from other games are okay, but when they don't fit the context they are not okay. What about just building that doubles the production speed of barracks in a radius? Makes much more sense for Star Wars.

 

8. Well if the Gunship has some armour then every single aircraft in Star Wars has some armour, because the Gunship is possibly the lowest armoured aircraft in the movies.

 

Rebels

9. I don't see how it is moe complicated than putting a guy in a Mech, and not having it greatly disadvantages the Rebels. While other civs can have Commanders for both infantry and mechs, the Rebels can only do so for infantry. A little unblanaced don't you think?

 

 

Oh and by the way, I liked your Republic reinforcement idea so much I mentioned it on the Star Wars: Imperial Assault forums, because I think it is perfect for a Generals Power. I gave you the credit though, just thought you might like to know.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Reply to Windu's comment toward me

 

9. Only one thing...I know that...I just wanted to know if the Rebel Commando could capture more then one building or is it a one-time use unit?

 

I thought the SnowSpeeder had the worst armor by far...

[Admiral Vostok]

Well despite the fact they had to remove armour to adapt them to the cold, I still think the Gunship would be easier to kill. I mean look at it, it has an open passenger deck! Also I feel I should add that the Gunship does not have sheilds in case any one was under the impression they did. We know this because Mace Windu uses his lightsaber to deflect an incoming bolt whilst travelling in a gunship.

 

The Gunships vulnerability is key to balancing out it's effectiveness. Here we have the perfect case of where Reality makes better Gameplay. Yes, it is well armed, it can transport troops and has missiles, but it is easy to kill.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I see. So the gunship would be rather slow moving, have lousy armor but great firepower.

Perhaps we should make it vulnerable to interceptor units(A-Wing, Tie interceptor)?

[FroZticles]

The only problem I have is the Jedi Padawan is cheap and fast building..... We are talking about a Jedi here right. Jedi Infantry I repeat a quote from Mace Windu. "We are keepers of the peace not soldiers" And the creatures strong vs Jedi hell they couldn't even kill Padme and they were all unarmed.

 

The gunship should be weak vs missiles and other fighters gun fire. Not so agile or as fast as most fighters.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok-

1. Yeah, but then why would you have just standard AT-ST's when you can have command AT-ST's?

 

2. Well, that all depends on keeping water combat

 

3. That could be done

 

4. I removed it

 

5. As i said, i just dont see them as part of the Confederacy military. That would be like having Kaminoan units in the Republican army

 

6. Not much i can do about that...

 

7. Well...i like it. As i said, it is part of the cloning process and makes Clone Troopers a bit more econjomical considering their high cost

 

8. That depends on your point of view

 

9. I've just added a Command T-47 Airspeeder

 

luke-

It would be a one-use-only unit

 

Froz-

Remember though that you are building Padawans/Apprentices, they have to earn their Knight status.

[Admiral Vostok]

1. Because Command AT-STs are more expensive (you have to build the Commander). I'm assuming the Commander is killed when his AT-ST is also killed, so if you've got an army of Command AT-STs that's a lot of money wasted everytime one dies.

 

2. Indeed. Which in your template you are. So no to no-effort-transports.

 

5. You did see Attack of the Clones, right? As I remember it, the Kaminoans did no fighting whatsoever, whereas a lot of Jedi were killed by Geonosians. So your analogy makes no sense.

 

7. Well I think the fact it is an obvious rip-off, combined with the fact it relates in no way whatsoever to the movies makes it a bad idea.

 

8. No it doesn't, it's a fact. Luke's Dad and Froz described the Gunship perfectly. Not too speedy, not agile, not armoured much, but with great firepower and transport capabilities.

 

10. I also think Jedi Padawans should not be cheap and fast building. There will be too many of them around if that is the case.

[FroZticles]

Geonosians are apart of the Confederacy military they killed countless Jedi in the arena, if you saw the extension of the clone war on dvd you would have seen a swarm of geos flying towards the clone troopers and being shot down.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok-

1. Yes, the Officer would be killed, but i still think the Command AT-ST and it's eqivalents need to be more vulnerable than standard AT-ST's, just like an Imperial Officer is more vulnerable than a Stormtrooper

 

2. I'm actually considering removing all naval units at the moment

 

5. Of course i did, but what im saying is that the Geonosians are weapons builders for the Confederacy, and only engaged the Republic because their world was being invaded - think of them as Geonosian 'National Guard'

 

7. I can change it to your suggestion of reducing Tropper building times/costs

 

8. Again, i didnt say it was well-armoured, but you have to remember than Battle Droid weapons didnt even dent the Gunships - they would only be vulnerable to heavy weapons

 

10. I suppose you're right, okay, ill make them slightly longer to build and more expensive

 

FroZ-

As i just said to Vostok, the Geonosians were fighting because their world had been invaded by the Republic, not because they were a part of the Confederacy military

[Darth Windu]

Hi again people - just letting you know that i have made some major changes to my template, effective as of 07/04/2004. The changes i have made are-

 

1. Removal of all Naval Units and water combat

 

2. Addition of Republic 'V-19' Starfighter as a stop-gap before players can access the superb Jedi Starfighter

 

3. Addition of the 'Imperial Plasma Trooper' to do...well read my template and you'll find out

 

I've also made a few changs to the website itself, i'd appreciate feedback on that as well.

 

Thanks.

[Admiral Vostok]

You forgot to get rid of the Clone Factory. It is so wrong. How about making it when you build the Clone Factory, infantry are produced twice as fast?

 

As for Geonosians, I see your point. Geonosian National Guard was a good analogy for once. I haven't seen any of the Clone Wars animations, do Geonosians fight in them?

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - alright, it's changed. The Clone Factory now halves the building time and cost of non-Jedi infantry units

 

BTW what did you think of my other changes, and the template overall?

[FroZticles]

Geonosians did fight in the Clone Wars but it was cut out, I guess the editors needed to cut down time.

 

I can see all the bonuses but what about the disadvantages, we see Confed with max population but where the disadvantage to counter that huge bonus they get.

[Darth Windu]

FroZ - i have already addressed that. I said that, yes, the Geonosians did fight, but they were fighting to defend their planet from the Republic, not as part of the Confederacy military.

[FroZticles]

So guarding the Seperatists leaders and droid factories is just defending there planet?

 

I can't believe you honestly believe the geonosians didn't sign the treaty and join the Seperatists and hand over there military to them.

 

Ohhh and a quote from you Windu PROVE IT!!!!!

[Admiral Vostok]

Geonosians did sign the treaty, however do you think they would contribute Geonosians to the Confederacy Army, or battle droids?

 

I tend to agree with Windu on this one. The only reason the Geonosians fought in the Battle of Geonosis (note this is not the entire Clone Wars) is because their planet was being invaded.

[Darth Windu]

FroZ - well actually, i don't recall the Geonosians actually signing the treaty, but anyway the Geonosians are weapons builders, not part of the Confed army.

 

Their economy rests on producing weapons for the Techno Union, Trade Federation etc - so of course they will protect the leaders!

 

The thing is though, that the Confed army is DISPOSABLE - ie battle droids, droid tanks, AAT's dont strain manufacturing capability, all you have to do is build a new one. Geonosians, on the other hand, have to be born and grown, and due to their weapons-building enterprises, are not disposable.

[FroZticles]

The geonosian fighters played a huge role in the Clone Wars and in the micro series we actually saw hundreds of them flying Anakin and the clones in space . Geonosians were piloting them so there they are apart of there military.

[Darth Windu]

Originally posted by FroZticles

(1) The geonosian fighters played a huge role in the Clone Wars and (2) in the micro series we actually saw hundreds of them (3) flying Anakin and the clones in space . (4) Geonosians were piloting them so there they are apart of (5) there military.

 

1. The Geonosians Fighter's didnt even play a big role in the Battle of Geonosis so i don't know how you figured that out

 

2. So? That's EU.BTW, i havent actually seen the micro-series, where did you see them and what were they doing?

 

3. I don't understand what you mean by that

 

4. Piloting what?

 

5. Whose military? As i said, the Geonosians were fighting to defend their planet from the Republic, not as a part of the Confederacy military.

 

Think of it this way, if we saw the Republic and Naboo fighting the Confederacy because the Confed's had invaded Naboo, would you automatically assume the Naboo are part of the Republic military?

[FroZticles]

They were protecting a Confederacy battleship. Anakin and the clones in there fighters were attacking the confed ship. Then a wave of geonsian fighters came out of it.

 

Well the fact that the Confederacy would have no reason to invade the Naboo, so its just a stupid statement.

[Darth Windu]

FroZ -

Well the fact that the Confederacy would have no reason to invade the Naboo, so its just a stupid statement.

 

It was a question, not a statement, and you still haven't answered it.