Darth Windu's NEW SWGB2 template

[Admiral Vostok]

I agree completely with Froz. I think this is the first time such a thing has ever happened

[Darth Windu]

FroZ - where did you get the idea that this is how RoN's research works because...it isnt. Apart from not being able to tell if a game is good or not without playing it, my research system is unique (as far as i can tell) in that ive never seen it in an RTS.

As i said, you simply invest in research, which is produced automatically. Better for gameplay, more realistic.

 

As for aircraft...no. As i've said, aircraft are powerful, but are vulnerable when on the ground and should not, and hence cant, be used constantly. With ground forces, it is a very different matter, but the fact is that aircraft cant keep flying all the time.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu - Your researching idea is remarkably similar to RoNs. The only difference is yours is done automatically while you have to manually perform RoNs. In that case, yours is even worse than RoNs because it requires even less thought to do.

 

As for Aircraft, you still haven't come up with why they can't be used constantly. They are powerful? So is the AT-AT. Does the AT-AT need to return to base at inopportune times to refuel? No. Neither should the X-Wing or TIE-Fighter or any other aircraft without a payload.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu, your researching systems gives the player absolutely no control on what he wants to get. Let's say I want to get so heavy AA as fast as I can. Can I do it? Absolutely not because it has to go through 17 other researches before I can get there.

It's one of the most pathetic anti-rush system I've ever seen.

[FroZticles]

Damn Luke you beat me

 

I would think it would encourage rushing since thats all you have until the mech research order comes in.

[Darth Windu]

luke - you HAVE to remember that there is no such thing as Heavy AA in my template, you are thinking in SWGB1 terms.

My research system does give the player control over how quickly they tech up, and what they want to concentrate on. I was also thinking of adding a military subsection of Infantry, Mech and Aircraft.

 

Vostok - it is nothing like RoN. Apart from there being 5 different researches in RoN, these are done using the old, clunky system of clicking on the research when you have enough resources, and does not include various upgrades like better armour, which are done at different buildings.

 

Again, my system is designed to allow the player to concentrate more on getting their base set up, collecting resources, and battle - which is the whole point of buying the game!

[lukeiamyourdad]

That's beside the point. It was only an example. Change Heavy AA into AT-AT if you want but it stays the same.

They cannot go from A to C by skipping B. They have to do everything in the exact same order every time.

Controlling how fast it goes isn't control at all.

 

This feels a lot like Civ where you have to research almost everything in order to advance. Except that you had more control in Civ then here since you can choose your researches.

[Admiral Vostok]

Well dividing the Military thing up into Infantry, Mech and Aircraft is a start, but still not as good as the current GB system of "research stuff you want".

[Darth Windu]

I still think this system is a lot better.

 

luke - but why would you have the AT-AT before, for example, the AT-PT? Bad for gameplay, poor realism. Besides, you shouldnt have access to your most powerful units as soon as you start the game.

 

vostok - well, i disagree with you, i think it is far superior to the SWGB, RoN, AoE etc system.

 

The system that i am using allows the player to concentrate more on battle and base-building, not worrying about going to each individual buiding to see if there are technologies to research. If that is the sort of game you want, go play SimCity.

 

My system allows player many options. For example, are you going to concentrate on more effecient resource collection (Economic), higher pop slots (Civic), better units (Military) or more units (none)? The different research fields, and the ability to devote percentage values to each gives many varied strategies to players. Economic booming, rushing, teching-up etc are all possible in many times the number of combinations available in the older games.

[FroZticles]

Funny thing is Windu your the only one who thinks its superior....

 

They implement tech levels for that purpose of not having a AT-AT at the start. Luke is basing it on that fact this system is only covering your arse cause you have no tech levels.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Exactly. That's also why they created tech trees.

 

I never said we should have access to the most powerful units at the start of the game. That's again, why they created tech trees. But with this, the tech tree becomes kind of useless. It's like a continuous tech level advance.

 

Rushing is impossible. There's almost no way you can rush here. Everyone has the same units since military research all goes the same.

 

I've been thinking about this. Although it is true that this allows people to turn away from advancement from buildings, it doesn't make the player concentrate on war.

See, since the speed of your researching comes with the amount of ressources you put in it, the smart player will go look for more ressources and concentrate on his economy so he can get more powerful units earlier then his opponent. Since this is also true in every other RTS, I think here people will concentrate a LOT on economy.

[Admiral Vostok]

I agree with Luke's Dad. The economy side of things requires just as much attention in your plan as it does in other games, but is made a whole lot more restrictive and even boring.

 

And If you've played SimCity, you'd know it is actually more like your game, where you don't click on individual buildings but you put funds into different areas as a whole.

[Darth Windu]

FroZ - so then why are you objecting to my research concept when the effect is the same?

 

Luke - its a tech tree managed differently. Also, rushing would be possible. In term of research, you can but 90% of your credits into research, or 0%. If you want to rush, you just put a small amount in economic, or use all of your credits building a force straight off - your opponent wont have the same number of more powerful units to stop you.

Economically - not true. The smart player would have their worker's mining resources, and would be putting a lot of credits into Economic research while building spaceports to supplement the resources they collect.

 

Vostok - so the economy requires as much attention but micromanagement of research is significantly reduced? Good, that is what i was aiming for.

[FroZticles]

I object because people want control over what they research and build. If someone wants to go fast air they can't without all the other research before it gets there.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Then what's the point in even putting anything in economic research?! People will just pump out units as fast as they can so they can slaughter the "econ" player.

That's ridiculous...

 

So now your game has a huge focus on economy. You have to build up all the time to get more ressources. That doesn't reduce micro.

 

Microing everything is almost everything in any RTS. You can reduce it but when it's too low and we don't even see a point in having an economy it turns into an RTT(real-time tactical game I think).

But yours is just like a bad attempt at an RTT while trying to push in some RTS elements. The two don't mix well.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu, I never said micromanagement would be reduced. I said the tech side of things becomes boring whereas before it required some thought.

 

And as Luke's Dad says, what's the point of putting any money into econ when you can pump out a force faster without doing so? That's just rediculous.

[Darth Windu]

FroZ - but they do determine exactly how much is put into research, and which research to put that into. This system is superior to the old system in every way, except that the player cannot choose which individual technology will be researched.

 

luke - no. Using Economic research will generate more credits at spaceports, will make resources worth more, and will allow worker units to carry more resources. Hence, if you are econ booming, and you can hold off a rush, you should be able to crush your opponent - much like it is now.

 

Vostok - it would require thought. You have to decide what percentage of your money should go on research. Then, you need to decide what technology field you want to concentrate on, then you need to manage the rest of your funds by building structures, units etc.

[FroZticles]

I still don't see how it is superior to the "older" research you still have not proven it. Your have proven the complete opposite....

[Admiral Vostok]

Okay, let me get this right:

 

Joe puts 90% into Econ. His workers carry more, his spaceports generate credits, he gets more cash flow in general.

 

Fred puts 90% into Military. He gets access to units quickly so he can mount a rush.

 

Fred mounts a huge attack on Joe using the units he was able to get quickly because he spent big on Military. Joe fights him off with... his ability to carry more resources?

 

Personally my money is on Fred.

[saberhagen]

No, it will lead to people commanding big armies in epic battles. Pay attention.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - no.

Because Joe is putting so much into Econ, he would be generating a lot more metal and credits than Fred, and with these extra credits would be able to build a defensive force.

 

Fred, on the other hand, would have access to more powerful units, but would have far less resources to use in constructing those units. A better rush tactic would be to dispense with research altogether and just build units, although that would really stuff you if the attack failed.

[Admiral Vostok]

But surely, because Joe hasn't researched any Military, his "defensive" force would be unable to defend successfully against Fred's more advanced force.

 

How can the best way to rush be to research nothing? I want to rush to get aircraft... so I research nothing?

[Darth Windu]

That all depends on how many units Joe has built, and what base defensive structures he has.

 

As for rushing, why would you want to rush with aircraft? Beside that being odd, with my system of building airbase's that would probably be difficult anyway.

With what i said about the best rushing, that would be best because then all of your resources would go into unit production, rather than more powerful units.

[Admiral Vostok]

Why would I want to rush with Aircraft? Because in every single game that features Aircraft it's a good tactic to rush to get Aircraft before your opponent has anti-air defense. Your research method doesn't allow for decent rushing, which is a valid and time-honoured tactic.

 

Your game makes less sense the more you explain it, Windu.

[FroZticles]

Windu would not care if people were paralyzed from rushing in the first place. His ideas support nothing but booming, next idea will be a terrain boundary where the enemy can't pass until an hour is up........