Mod predictions for Battlefront

[Idei]

I have yet to see or hear of a LucasArts game with a successful, and popular, total conversion. Being moddable and having great mods are similar but I would rather have great mods over just having the capability to mod.

 

In my mind a great total conversion is the definition of a real mod. Custom models or gameplay tweaks are fun, and as long as they are simple to integrate I would play with them, but a good total conversion is usually distinct enough that playing them actually feels like a different game entirely.

 

They are few and far between. If LucasArts is lucky enough to pick up a team that has the ability and the desire to create a good total conversion, they had better be smart enough to recognize what they bring to the table.

 

At this point I'm just interested in seeing whether there are any mod makers on these forums that are actively pursuing a SWBF mod. More than likely they will appear after the game goes retail, after people have seen the game, the engine, and formulated some opinions about it.

 

 

 

Idei

[tFighterPilot]

For crying out loud, do you know ANYTHING about the modability of Jedi Outcast\Academy?

[Tyler_Durden]

I believe Pandemic has stated that they will release mod tools after release. I just hope it's intuitive enough to learn. JO/JA was fairly easy, but there are a lot of tricks that you kind of have to learn as you map. Battlefield 1942 is a bitch, though cause i think you have to know photoshop or something, i haven't tried vietnam's mod tools yet, but i don't think i'm interested in modding that game as there are tons of mods in the works. But yeah, i'm hoping you don't need a multitude of knowledge with many obscure programs to learn battlefront.

[Nevhision]

Okay, how good are the JA space maps? Or would UT be better for that?

 

-What a crazy world when FPS turn into Space Sims.

[pink lightsaber]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

NOT JEDI NO JEDI NO JEDI

 

sorry had to get that off my chest;)

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Nevhision

Okay, how good are the JA space maps? Or would UT be better for that?

 

-What a crazy world when FPS turn into Space Sims.

Well, most would say that UT2K4 space combat is better, BUT ITS NOT STARWARS!

[Sabretooth]

Actually, I would like a mod which allows a third-party. For eg. While the Battle of Hoth is going on, A Wampa, or maube two attack both sides. It would be a bit dumb, but good.

Or, A mod which can introduce new factions like the Crimson Guards, The Black Sun, Yuuzhan Vong, The Jedi/Sith Order etc. (Of course, the Jedi/Sith won't be able to play against other factions but themselves).

[Tyler_Durden]

I think i might base a few maps on some of the scenarios from galactic battlegrounds, the real time strategy game that came out a few years ago, maybe some from that 3d one as well but i can't remember the name of it. I think that would ve a good source of battles that i believe happened in star wars canon and have a few worlds we haven't seen yet.

[tFighterPilot]

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden

I think i might base a few maps on some of the scenarios from galactic battlegrounds, the real time strategy game that came out a few years ago, maybe some from that 3d one as well but i can't remember the name of it. I think that would ve a good source of battles that i believe happened in star wars canon and have a few worlds we haven't seen yet.

Force Commander?

[Tyler_Durden]

yeah, force commander. And now that i think about it, maybe some maps from different games such as dune, with the deserts and stuff, maybe stuff from command and conquer all done in the Star Wars universe with a star wars flavor. Damn, this is shaping up to be very awesome with all the ideas i'm getting, i haven't felt this excited since Jedi Outcast.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Lt. Havoc

I bet they'll release a MP demo in July, probably using the map of Yavin 4.

I'll believe that when I see it. It wouldn't be in their best interest.

 

Originally posted by Idei

...a good total conversion is usually distinct enough that playing them actually feels like a different game entirely.

 

They are few and far between.

I wonder why that is, since they are so easy and quick to produce

 

Originally posted by Idei

If LucasArts is lucky enough to pick up a team that has the ability and the desire to create a good total conversion, they had better be smart enough to recognize what they bring to the table.

Are you talking about the Lucasarts that owns Star Wars?

 

Originally posted by sabretooth

Or, A mod which can introduce new factions like the ... Yuuzhan Vong...

Dear god, no!

[Idei]

A demo is almost a requirement these days. People I talk to about it barely know what Battlefront is. They definitely have to market the game better, and if the game is worth playing they will demo it publicly so they can earn street creds.

 

I stand by what I said earlier about total conversions and the relationship of LucasArts with the modding community. They offer less support than other companies with similiar games and I have yet to hear of any really great LucasArts mods.

 

There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike. Where are the mods in the LucasArts universe that carry that much depth and popularity?

 

They are few and far between on ANY game platform.

 

Idei

[Prime]

Originally posted by Idei

A demo is almost a requirement these days.

Yeah, OK.

 

Originally posted by Idei

People I talk to about it barely know what Battlefront is. They definitely have to market the game better, and if the game is worth playing they will demo it publicly so they can earn street creds.

Why? Because Star Wars doesn't have any name recognition? I guess KOTOR suffered because it didn't have a demo. I doubt Battlefront needs "street cred". By the time the game is released, everyone in the Hip Hop Nation will know about it

 

Originally posted by Idei

I stand by what I said earlier about total conversions and the relationship of LucasArts with the modding community. They offer less support than other companies with similiar games and I have yet to hear of any really great LucasArts mods.

And that lack of support is preventing them from selling a boatload of games?

 

Originally posted by Idei

There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike. Where are the mods in the LucasArts universe that carry that much depth and popularity?

 

They are few and far between on ANY game platform.

Why would they want them? They don't want the Star Wars continuity altered for starters, since some people may confuse the mods an official Star Wars product. They put out enough Star Wars games that extending the life of existing games would be a bad business move. The only incentive they need to get people to buy their product is to put Star Wars on the box...

[tFighterPilot]

There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike.

That's fricking stupid, especially as Half Life is much better

 

(at least single player wise)

[yaebginn]

U really from Israel? Is it nice there? Exceot for the war and all. I'm always root for Israel. Cause the Palestine started it anyhow. With the bombers and all. If I could, I'd help ya'll. But I have one dollar, no combat experince, and am not even old enough to smoke. not that the last bit had anything to do with anything.

[Idei]

Why? Because Star Wars doesn't have any name recognition? I guess KOTOR suffered because it didn't have a demo. I doubt Battlefront needs "street cred". By the time the game is released, everyone in the Hip Hop Nation will know about it

 

That's exactly the mindset that LucasArts has about its games and one of the reasons why games like Armed and Dangerous came and went. There have been a few Star Wars games that have reached success, and there are plenty that were rated negatively among gamers. They need to prove that Star Wars games are worth buying, just like any other business.

 

And that lack of support is preventing them from selling a boatload of games?

 

Mod makers would appreciate the support. Battlefront could easily go the way of Force Commander or Star Wars Rebellion since PC gamers today almost expect quality mods with any 'good' game these days.

 

Why would they want them? They don't want the Star Wars continuity altered for starters, since some people may confuse the mods an official Star Wars product. They put out enough Star Wars games that extending the life of existing games would be a bad business move. The only incentive they need to get people to buy their product is to put Star Wars on the box...

 

 

Well it comes down to how a company wants to relate to its customers. I prefer games that have active mod communities. Compare Age of Empires with its many sequels to Warcraft. I prefer Warcraft because it actively supports mods. Blizzard believes in letting their users customize and mod their games. Age of Empires didn't really actively support mods the way Blizzard does. Warcraft is by far the more popular title these days.

 

 

Idei

[Prime]

Originally posted by Idei

That's exactly the mindset that LucasArts has about its games and one of the reasons why games like Armed and Dangerous came and went. There have been a few Star Wars games that have reached success, and there are plenty that were rated negatively among gamers. They need to prove that Star Wars games are worth buying, just like any other business.

I am not sure how old you are, but saying that there have been only a few successful Star Wars games dates you a bit Before the Episode I games fiasco, for the most part everything Lucasarts touched turned to gold. Dark Forces, Jedi knight, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance and so on were all critically acclaimed games.

 

The poor reception of Episode I games obviously gave them a wake up call. Newer games have been successful more often than not. KOTOR is hailed as one of the best games of all time. Outcast was given very high praise. Even Jedi Academy, although ranking lower than JA, will still well above average in general rankings. For the most part, Star Wars games have been above average in terms of quality, and most definitely in terms of sales. I think it is safe to say that to most people Lucasarts has convinced them that their games are worth buying, mods or no.

 

Originally posted by Idei

Mod makers would appreciate the support. Battlefront could easily go the way of Force Commander or Star Wars Rebellion since PC gamers today almost expect quality mods with any 'good' game these days.

Of course mod makers like me would appreciate support. But the fact of the matter is that Lucasarts owes us nothing. They make a product and we can decide whether we want that product or not. They are under no obligation to help players alter their product. No one should expect them to.

 

And I don't think that most PC gamers expect quality mods. First of all, the majority of players only play the SP portion of games and never touch MP. Most players never install or probably even know about mods. Look at KOTOR. I am a part of that game's modding community and it is a very small percentage of players that even know mods exist for it. Yet it is one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time.

 

If Battlefront is to end up like Force Commander, it is because it sucks, not because there is no mod support. Star Wars games do well or poorly on their own merits.

 

All I'm saying is that mods != success for a game, especially a Star Wars one.

 

Originally posted by Idei

Well it comes down to how a company wants to relate to its customers. I prefer games that have active mod communities. Compare Age of Empires with its many sequels to Warcraft. I prefer Warcraft because it actively supports mods. Blizzard believes in letting their users customize and mod their games. Age of Empires didn't really actively support mods the way Blizzard does. Warcraft is by far the more popular title these days.

If you prefer games that have active mod communities, that's great. I hope Battlefront has one. But that is a personal preference, not a business requirement for success.

 

Are you saying that Warcraft is more popular than Empires solely because of mods? Empires has mods as well. What are you basing this on?

[Lt. Havoc]

Giving fans the ability to edit the game and produce mods greatly expands the life of the game. True a huge majority don't even know of some mods exsistance but some titles are bought well after their release just so the player can play the mod and not the original game. Look at Counter Strike, Day of Defeat and Desert combat. You have players there which never touched the parent game. True they owe us nothing but the smart developer knows the true fans and how to keep them interested over the long term.

[Idei]

Originally posted by Prime

I am not sure how old you are, but saying that there have been only a few successful Star Wars games dates you a bit Before the Episode I games fiasco, for the most part everything Lucasarts touched turned to gold. Dark Forces, Jedi knight, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance and so on were all critically acclaimed games.

 

The poor reception of Episode I games obviously gave them a wake up call. Newer games have been successful more often than not. KOTOR is hailed as one of the best games of all time. Outcast was given very high praise. Even Jedi Academy, although ranking lower than JA, will still well above average in general rankings. For the most part, Star Wars games have been above average in terms of quality, and most definitely in terms of sales. I think it is safe to say that to most people Lucasarts has convinced them that their games are worth buying, mods or no.

 

Sure buddy.

 

That point of view only reflects that you are a Star Wars fan that will buy any 'above average' quality Star Wars game. Games like X-Wing were state-of-the-art at the time and I haven't seen any Star Wars games since that era that can make a similiar claim.

 

I believe that Battlefront should have a multiplayer demo to help bolster sales. Your position is that people will buy it regardless. Both of these points may be valid. Leave it at that.

 

And I don't think that most PC gamers expect quality mods. First of all, the majority of players only play the SP portion of games and never touch MP. Most players never install or probably even know about mods. Look at KOTOR. I am a part of that game's modding community and it is a very small percentage of players that even know mods exist for it. Yet it is one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time.

 

If Battlefront is to end up like Force Commander, it is because it sucks, not because there is no mod support. Star Wars games do well or poorly on their own merits.

 

All I'm saying is that mods != success for a game, especially a Star Wars one.

 

That had better be another hoax post Prime because that is way off base. Look at the games available on PCs today. Virtually all of them have a multiplayer feature. If players were focusing on SP only then developers would skip implementing that part of the game.

 

KOTOR may be one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time, but that still translates into a niche market game. If LucasArts wants any of their games to reach mainstream success they will have to provide the kind of features and support that games like Half-life and Unreal Tournament provide to their communities.

 

Mods help drive success in the world of PC games.

PC gamers do expect mods and mod support these days. Look at any game that supports multiplayer on the PC, and you will find a game that supports mods.

 

If you prefer games that have active mod communities, that's great. I hope Battlefront has one. But that is a personal preference, not a business requirement for success.

 

If LucasArts wants to have a mainstream success with Battlefront they will have to include all the features that games like Half-Life and Unreal provide. If they continue to isolate themselves from industry trends then Star Wars games will always remain a niche market, and I would like to see it go mainstream, assuming that the gameplay is balanced and well implemented.

 

Idei

[tFighterPilot]

You see, games like half life, unreal and quake3 were meant to be used especially as base graphic engines, for games like JO and JA. Although Pandemic creates a new engine for the game, it's a Star Wars game, a specific game meant to be a game, not a graphic engine for other games.

 

I hope you understood what I jsut wrote, cuz I wrote while thinking.

[Lt. Havoc]

True, for the longest time Valve, Id and Epic games made a huge sum of their income from licensing their engines even though they only had 1 title and maybe a couple expansions them. That is a big difference from those companies compared to Lucasarts. its hard to tell who has the better marketing ideology but with JO and JA Raven thought it best to provide mod tools. I hope its a trend which continues. As a company they may not see the need or possibilities which are linked to mod tools but at least provide us with the means and leave the option open to us. It becomes mutualism; we get to make the maps and mods we'd like and in return those items give the game a longer life.

[Tyler_Durden]

The fact of the matter is that pandemic has said they will release mod tools after the game comes out, i think they stated that in a gamespot article, i can't remember. So we're covered there, no need to worry.

 

As the casual gamer goes, though, they don't have a clue about mods. I bought jedi knight two years after it came out and a year later found out about patches, mods, and such. And i think at the time it was like the best selling game ever. So i really don't think it's the community, it's more if the game is ground breaking or even good for it to be successful. Although, now i do think mods are going more mainstream which is why companies are now including them with the installation cd's.

 

In the future, though i think mod tools, as they become more popular and people figure out how to use them, will be integral to a game's success. I mean look at how many people want to mod this game and it hasn't even come out. This is gonna be a no-brainer for sure.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Lt. Havoc

Giving fans the ability to edit the game and produce mods greatly expands the life of the game. True a huge majority don't even know of some mods exsistance but some titles are bought well after their release just so the player can play the mod and not the original game. Look at Counter Strike, Day of Defeat and Desert combat. You have players there which never touched the parent game. True they owe us nothing but the smart developer knows the true fans and how to keep them interested over the long term.

But many game companies don't want to keep you interested in one game over the long term. They want you to buy the next game they put out.

 

Originally posted by Idei

Sure buddy.

 

That point of view only reflects that you are a Star Wars fan that will buy any 'above average' quality Star Wars game. Games like X-Wing were state-of-the-art at the time and I haven't seen any Star Wars games since that era that can make a similiar claim.

But being a great game does not require that it be state of the art or revolutionary. Are KOTOR and the JK series not great games that have come out after the X-Wing series?

 

Originally posted by Idei

That had better be another hoax post Prime because that is way off base. Look at the games available on PCs today. Virtually all of them have a multiplayer feature. If players were focusing on SP only then developers would skip implementing that part of the game.

Of course MP is a big area and lots of people play it. But if that was all they were playing, SP would have been ditched long ago. It hasn't.

 

Originally posted by Idei

KOTOR may be one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time, but that still translates into a niche market game. If LucasArts wants any of their games to reach mainstream success they will have to provide the kind of features and support that games like Half-life and Unreal Tournament provide to their communities.

Not just one of the most popular Star Wars games, it was one of the most popular games period. It is the fastest selling game in XBox history, selling 270,000 copies in two weeks. It was the top selling PC game in the US during the week of May 22 (JA was number 5). When Jedi Outcast was released, it was the number one selling PC title in North America, as well as Germany and the UK. Rogue Squadron II was the best-selling third-party game for the GameCube since the console's release. Galaxies was well in the top ten in sales.

 

I don't see how you can that Star Wars games haven't been reaching mainstream success.

 

Originally posted by Idei

Mods help drive success in the world of PC games.

PC gamers do expect mods and mod support these days. Look at any game that supports multiplayer on the PC, and you will find a game that supports mods.

They help, yes, but they are not the main or only reason for the success of a generic MP game. That's all I'm saying.

 

Originally posted by Idei

If LucasArts wants to have a mainstream success with Battlefront they will have to include all the features that games like Half-Life and Unreal provide.

Or they could just make a great game that is fun to play. Or are you saying that if it is a great game without mod support, that it will be a financial failure?

 

Originally posted by Idei

If they continue to isolate themselves from industry trends then Star Wars games will always remain a niche market, and I would like to see it go mainstream, assuming that the gameplay is balanced and well implemented.

I think I have shown that Star Wars games are by no means a niche market.

[Idei]

The Star Wars movies are considered a mainstream success. They set box office records in sales that rank it among the best selling of all time. People talk about Star Wars the film, and they instantly know what you're talking about.

 

Mainstream success in the world of games is about being so good that it redefines the genre, or achieves high volume of sales. On consoles, games like the Final Fantasy series, Legend of Zelda series, and Halo come to mind. On PC, mainstream success is associated with staying power of a game. Top seller of all time, like The Sims, or value recognition, like Valve's Half-Life. This is usually accomplished with a graphics engine that is popular, flexible, and marketable separate of the game itself.

 

KOTOR is a great RPG, by all accounts, but its a smaller title on console, and on PC it doesn't generate the sales that Unreal, Quake, or Half-Life produce. There could be any number of reasons this might be true. RPGs only represent a part of the overall market. Graphic engines with licensing and modding tools might be more popular with the PC market. The company that produced KOTOR is known to be a RPG house, and some people skip RPGs.

 

If I recall correctly, Jedi series is based upon the Quake engine.

The games themselves were interesting, but nothing about them really added value to the genre. It was simply a Star Wars games that fans would enjoy.

 

That is a very good marketing strategy, but unfortunately in the world of PCs it gained LucasArts the reputation of playing it safe the past few years. Force Commander, Star Wars: Rebellion, Star Wars: Battlegrounds/Clone Campaigns all fall into this category. There are people that like Star Wars, but skip buying Star Wars games due to this reputation.

 

Star Wars games are considered niche market games. Visit the local store and they might have a copy or two of KOTOR on the shelf, but it won't be stacked with copies like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, or other mainstream titles.

 

Maybe with Episode I-III the interest in Star Wars games will be renewed. Maybe Battlefront will be that game that restores the Star Wars games to the status of mainstream. Mainstream being recognized as being tournament or professionally playable like Quake, Starcraft, and Counterstrike.

 

X-Wing is a good example of a LucasArts mainstream success. People liked it so much that they kept asking for sequels and multiplayer. Compared to any other space combat simulator in the market at the time, it was second to none.

 

Idei

[Prime]

Originally posted by Idei

Mainstream success in the world of games is about being so good that it redefines the genre, or achieves high volume of sales. On consoles, games like the Final Fantasy series, Legend of Zelda series, and Halo come to mind. On PC, mainstream success is associated with staying power of a game. Top seller of all time, like The Sims, or value recognition, like Valve's Half-Life. This is usually accomplished with a graphics engine that is popular, flexible, and marketable separate of the game itself.

Ah, I see that we have different views of what mainstream success entails. My definition is a bit broader. With your's, there are probably only single digit titles that could be considered mainstream successes. Fair enough.

 

Originally posted by Idei

KOTOR is a great RPG, by all accounts, but its a smaller title on console, and on PC it doesn't generate the sales that Unreal, Quake, or Half-Life produce. There could be any number of reasons this might be true. RPGs only represent a part of the overall market. Graphic engines with licensing and modding tools might be more popular with the PC market. The company that produced KOTOR is known to be a RPG house, and some people skip RPGs.

True, but lots of people skip FPS and RTS games as well. RPGs are just another genre, but I think you will agree that it is one of the more popular ones.

 

Originally posted by Idei

If I recall correctly, Jedi series is based upon the Quake engine.

The games themselves were interesting, but nothing about them really added value to the genre. It was simply a Star Wars games that fans would enjoy.

Again, I see that our definitions and criteria differ. Personally, I am happy to have Star Wars games that I as a fan enjoy. I do not require revolutionary or state of the art changes to have fun. Again, by your definition, there are very few games that have really added value to the various genres. How many games have really done something revolutionary to the FPS genre?

 

Originally posted by Idei

Star Wars games are considered niche market games. Visit the local store and they might have a copy or two of KOTOR on the shelf, but it won't be stacked with copies like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, or other mainstream titles.

Again, then there are only a handleful of titles that have mainstream success. My definition differs, so there is no point debating that. I understand now where you are coming from...

 

Originally posted by Idei

Maybe with Episode I-III the interest in Star Wars games will be renewed.

Still, I don't think interest in SW games has really fallen in the general gaming public for the most part. They are pretty consistently near the top of the sales chart.

 

Originally posted by Idei

Maybe Battlefront will be that game that restores the Star Wars games to the status of mainstream. Mainstream being recognized as being tournament or professionally playable like Quake, Starcraft, and Counterstrike.

Ah, so in that case games like KOTOR can never be considered mainstream successes, because it does not have multiplayer, and thus is not professionaly playable in tournaments.