Dr Edison 007 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Didn't Ron destroy the deleted scenes so no one could release a "Director's Cut", sounds like Kubrick to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 I remember at the time there was a rumour about him destroying the deleted scenes. But I don’t recall Ron Gilbert actually saying he had deleted them. I don’t think he would have deleted them because he had probably worked hard and spent many hours of his time creating them, I bet Ron or Lucasarts still has them somewhere. If Ron can confirm he did delete them, MI2 the lost files would have to go down in gaming history. Along with Atari's own mass-destruction. When Atari buried millions of unsold "E.T." cartridges in a New Mexico desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Atari buried millions of unsold "E.T." cartridges in a New Mexico desert. maybe ron gilbert did the same thing...but with the mi2 deleted files. put them on a disk, you know, then buried them... There was an interview with Gilbert where I think he mentioned some details about a long section he cut out of one of the games. well, if that's the case, then does anybody know where to find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Depends on your feeling of it all. I spent a good year on a piece of IT coursework adn now that it's handed in, I'm considering deleting all efforts of it (that's about 100mb's worth of work there) because I didn't enjoy it and it's just taking up space now. The actual only reason I haven't deleted it yet is because 1) I may yet find a use/need for it and 2) If it's any good (depending on what grade I'll get), I'll burn it onto a CD and sell it to people a year below me for them to use as their own coursework. But anyway, back on topic. Because of copywright laws and so on, Lucasarts probably held the rights to al deleted scenes and therefore would have taken it off of him, or made him destory them. Of course this is all computer talk, and with a computer, you can usually copy stuff. At a guess, I'd say he's kept the scenes in secret somewhere in storage, if only to have them and also know that he himself holds the holy grail of gaming history. Who knows... It would be nice to know if they at least existed, even if we couldn't see them or know what they were about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Gonzo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I did a bit more scouring The SCUMM Bar and found a tidbit from a pre-MI2 interview, and it's Ron talking about when he was putting together the 'rough cut' of the game, at which point he chopped and changed a few things. Q. Once the budgets and schedules are done, you can begin programming at last. But Monkey Island is an enormous, complex game. Where do you start? A. Our first goal was to get a crude version of the game together as fast as we could. That means a lot of the animation was missing, the rooms were just sketched in , the puzzles were wired in as quickly as possible. It took about three months to get a primitive version of Monkey Island that was playable from beginning to end. It was like having a rough cut of a movie. We could identify a lot of weak spots -- we cut out a whole bunch of the game at one point because it just didn't flow well, and we added stuff where the game wasn't interesting enough. Q. For example? A. Before you can recruit one character named Meathook, he demands that you prove your bravery. You had to accomplish three things. But it slowed down the flow of the game too much, so we cut out two of them. For our story, one was enough. We added some things, too. We realised that once you got to Monkey Island, the game became kind of slow. The reason was simply that there weren't a lot of people on Monkey Island to interact with -- logically enough, since it's supposed to be a deserted island. So we added a shipwrecked character on the island, and that gives you somebody to talk with. And as you piece together the story of what's been happening on Monkey Island, you discover that he's a very important part of that story. I'm not quite satisfied that this is what I remember reading, but there's an example of a 'cut' from SoMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I remember reading that, but the vibe I got from that was that the stuff they took out either detered flow or was just crap, and either way, I doubt any of that stuff was put into MI2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 But anyway, back on topic. Because of copywright laws and so on, Lucasarts probably held the rights to al deleted scenes and therefore would have taken it off of him, or made him destory them. That what I thought but I think Ron Gilbert didn’t delete them didn’t give them to lucasarts and still has them. My reason like you Joshi I have done numerous pieces of coursework, which I hated, didn’t enjoy doing and then destroyed them despite spending a lot of time working on them. The question we all must ask ourselves is. " What if w were Ron Gilbert What would we do"?. Here is my answer, if I was Programming for MI2 as a fan I would enjoy it and anything I created I would be very proud off even the parts cut out of MI2 and I wouldn’t dream of deleting anything including Scenes story ideas that will not be included. Of course this is all computer talk, and with a computer, you can usually copy stuff. At a guess, I'd say he's kept the scenes in secret somewhere in storage, if only to have them and also know that he himself holds the holy grail of gaming history. I think that’s exactly correct I bet he still has them in storage at his home for sentimental reasons or even in case he wanted to use them to remake MI2 Who knows... It would be nice to know if they at least existed, even if we couldn't see them or know what they were about. Lets just hope one day he will tell us they still exist and what they were maybe even in this section I would also like to here if he has any plans to remake MI2. I did a bit more scouring The SCUMM Bar and found a tidbit from a pre-MI2 interview, and it's Ron talking about when he was putting together the 'rough cut' of the game, at which point he chopped and changed a few things. Thanks Captain Gonzo I read that interview it brought back some MI memories. I remember reading about it and I bet there were huge amounts removed from MI1 and MI2. And I would be surprised if some of the parts removed from MI1 were linked in some way to the parts they removed from MI2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Not gonna happen anytime soon. LEC still has the rights to monkey island, and as long as CMI and EMI are still selling, they're not gonna give them up. In order for Gilbert toremake MI2, he'd need to buy the rights off them, and his companies are exactly thriving. He sdid say in an interview that one day he would like to buy the rights back and make his version of MI3, but as far as I can see, it won't happen any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 I hope Ron Gilbert does eventually buy back the rights to Monkeys Island and make his own version of MI3 and continue the Series the way he wanted becasue unlike Lucasarts he really cares about Monkeys Island and what the fans of it want, Lucasarts just want to make money out of it. Lets hope Ron Gilbert gets enougth money together to buy the rights back, maybe he has a plan B for getting the rights back he may even decided to sue them instead. Either way I just hope it happens and soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 sue them for what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hes the creator of Monkeys Island surely he can think of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Doubt it, by working for Lucasarts and allowing them to publish both games, LEC owns all rights to Monkey Island and are therfore free to do whatever the hell they want with it without fear of getting sued by anyone, including Gilbert, despite him creating it as he signed a contract saying it was theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Lets just hope Ron Gilbert finds enougth money to buy the rights to Monkeys Island back one day, or Lucasarts rehire him and his team to work on the Monkeys Island series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinkie Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 They wouldn't do that, as this is not the proper time to release an adventure game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Plus I doubt Gilbert would come back if asked for Monkey Island, it may be been his greatest work, but he has done a lot more and people like to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rundll32.exe Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Well, the resolution of MI2 is only 320x200, I think, so when you only have so many pixels with which to draw a face, there are only so many different faces you can draw and the possibility that two will appear very similar is high. With this knowledge, it seems that this similarity was nothing more than a simple coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 In MI2 only 2 characters look very much a like, Largo and The Woodsmith. I understand what your trying to say about lack of pixels to create characters with that very true, as for there been only so many different faces, Chracters you can draw that is down to the skill of the creators and MI, and MI2 team are very talented so i dout this was a problem for them. I create pixel Characters simular to those In MI2 for fun and I can easily create over 30+ charcters all diffrent looking. Simular games of that time such as Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis, Curse of Enchantia, The Legend of Kyriandia. They had even more charcters than MI2 none of there characters looked very simular out of all the characters in all them games. Maybe the similarity beteween Largo and The Woodsmith was nothing more than a coincidence but for the two almost identical characters to feature on the first level of the game you have to say thats a bit strange. When developing a game you have all the drawings of the levels in storyboard format as well as the drawings for the characters they are all layed out on a wall and usally everybody looks at them with an egales eye to look for any mistakes and bad ideas, Likes and disslikes. You would expect they would of noticed the simularity and changed the hair colour of the woodsmith from black to brown or something to avoid this. You may be absoloutly right but I would like to think theres something more exciting behind it than just a coincidence. I Repect you Pirate :monkey4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 maybe when they had all the characters mapped out, nobody really cared. i doubt the whole developing team looked over it to check for goofups, but maybe two or three people. that's not a lot of eyeballs checking the pictures, and they could've just overlooked the similarities, which (in my opinion) were few and far apart. or, they may have even noticed the similarity if the woodsmith had been shorter at first, so they made him taller so they wouldn't seem so alike. they probably didn't expect someone to think largo was standing on stilts inside his boots... but, either way, the woodsmith's look could already be the altered appearance in the case that they looked even more alike before. i dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Originally posted by rundll32.exe Well, the resolution of MI2 is only 320x200, I think, so when you only have so many pixels with which to draw a face, there are only so many different faces you can draw and the possibility that two will appear very similar is high. With this knowledge, it seems that this similarity was nothing more than a simple coincidence. Originally posted by Myself I don't really know any history behind it, but as a guess, I'd say when creating the sprites, they created the main charcters and then, with the very little pixels that they could use, they created the woodsmith and accidentally made it look somewhat like largo. You may think that's a very low possibiliy, but because of the very few pixels used, it would actually be very easy to do. Yeah, I thought I'd heard that somewhere in the same thread. But, honestly, I can actually only see a few very little similarities betwen the two sprites that would come out of the hinder opf only haveing a few pixels and therefore like I said before, iot would be very easiy to have such small similarities. May I add that there were many more than 30 charcters in MI1 anhd 2 and I doubt they wanted their charcters to look like any other sprites in other games back then so they were very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 maybe when they had all the characters mapped out, nobody really cared. i doubt the whole developing team looked over it to check for goofups, but maybe two or three people. that's not a lot of eyeballs checking the pictures, and they could've just overlooked the similarities, which (in my opinion) were few and far apart. What you may think was a simple task of just 2 or 3 people glancing over a story board is quite the opposite in gaming there is no room for mistakes, everything left in a game is there because its meant to be nothing is not due to mistake of laziness. Unless of cause the games company create bad games. In the games creating past and present its very team orientated and everyone is involved from the very lowest level to the highest. When the games concept storyboard of ideas, final Characters drawings and levels ect is finished if only 2 or 3 people checked everything lets say the artists they may not notice mistakes or give much negative or positive opinions about there own work. So everyone is involved from the very lowest level to the highest to get their opinions, likes and dislikes, similarities ect and they are taken very seriously. This is not a short glance it usually goes on for quite sometime even days to ensure everything in the game is perfect. So this is why I doubt it was just a simple mistake if I and many others can see the similarity between the Largo and Woodsmith and start to think its part of a storyline twist they left out. Then surely they also saw the similarities as well and realised that the people who play the game would think it was part of a storyline twist during game play and when they completed it then think it was a storyline twist left out. :monkey4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 To be honest, a few small similarities between 2 characters, one of which has a very small part, isn't exactly a huge mistake left in the game, not nearly enough to call it a bad game. Yes, they do have people looking for mistakes called alpha testers, but these are really around to test for bugs in the game and so on. And yes, during all of production, the team do look for such things as similarities, but you do have to remember what characters are drawn on paper first and then put into the game. The drawings look nothing like the game sprites of course because of the resolution and then the computer arsists try to make the sprites look as much like the drawings as possible. And then yes, they may be compared with each other, but seriously, look at the sprites again, there is really very little similarity, apart from a slightly (and that's ever so slightly) similar face build, the rest is all different and I'm really stuggling to find where you found these similarities, and more importantly, you ahve to think about this from a game designers point of view, if I saw these two together during production, I'd probably think to myself "Hmm, very small similarity in the face, but then I've seen that expression all over the place in these sprites, people won't notice (and after browsing these boards for more than 2 years, this is the first time I've seen this claim, so it's ben a while since the games release), they're never together in the game, and plus, this woodsmith guys only in it for a while anyway. nothing to get worked up about so mucht hat we'd have to spend loads of money and redisign this one charcters to look slightly more different from one of our main charcters. i'm not saying your theory is wrong, all i'm saying is that it's a possibility, and my theroy is also a possibility, and technically, a much bigger one than you made it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 well, i'm making a computer game as well, we've got a team working on it and we're going to sell the idea to a big company. quite honestly, not everybody looks over every little thing. in fact, i've overlooked a few things myself and then someone else brought it up and i thought "yeah, well...it's not that big a deal". i doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters. but, that's just what i think. maybe i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Edison 007 Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Hey Largo, how can you say that you are not obsessed with Largo LaGrande after you speak like this? Nearly everything you post is about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Originally posted by Das Mole well, i'm making a computer game as well, we've got a team working on it and we're going to sell the idea to a big company. quite honestly, not everybody looks over every little thing. in fact, i've overlooked a few things myself and then someone else brought it up and i thought "yeah, well...it's not that big a deal". i doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters. but, that's just what i think. maybe i'm wrong. Well, i think it's slightly different considering you're making a fan game, or non profit, no budget game, as apose to the people at LA who're getting paid considerable amounts to make a good game and make sure it's as flawless as Largo said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo LaGrande Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Joshi At the end of the day its a matter of opinion this area is to discover if there was a hidden meaning to Woodsmith and largo looking so much alike. I am not going to perswade you guys to agree with me thats whats good about this, were getting a good ballance of diffrent opinions. My theory is theres was more to it and alot of people i know also have the same theory. Das Mole I doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters. Monkeys Island 1 or 2 dosent have a large crew neither did the other companys that made games at that time. So everybody really did get very involved. Making games know is still very much the same but due to the fact games have become more advanced a huge chunk of the crew on all games are programers designers artists ect those people would still check their own work themselfs and they will still get a good percentage of every one else to give their opinion its essential. If you dont belive me then i guess i would have to show you round a proffessional studio one day to enlighten you. Dr Edison 007 Does it really matter if i talk about certain subjects more that other thats my choice isnt it. And I am not Largo obsessed thats just a user name thats all Largo is just a character in Monkeys Island like all the others. If i called myself Gybrush Threepwood, LeChuck or wally and i was talking about them you would probably say exactly the same thing. I would happily change my name to something else but i dont see why i should just to prove im not Largo obsessed. I could say the same thing about you i could say your Manic Mansion Obsessed your called Dr Edison and you look like just him. Excuse me if i sound a bit snappy i dont mean to but i really cant see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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