Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Vostoc- "Can I ask straight out what your five civs are to get any criticism I have of the choices you've made out of the way before you go ahead and work out the entirity of each civ?" I thought this was more appropriate than doing it all in DK's thread. Galactic Empire Rebel Alliance Galactic Republic Confederacy of Independent Systems Galactic Syndicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nairb Notneb Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 These are my opinions: Empire: Air support is week, but the over all strongest. Workers could use some help. Rebels: Best air attack (especially in CC w/A-wing research) I rank Jedi as tied for third w/Empires Sith. Mechs are week, water week. Workers ok. Republic: Jedi are the best everything else is average but fun to play. Confederacy: Sith powers are great but no masters which is a big deal for me because that gives you less converting abilities. However their mechs are rivaled only by the Empire. Water needs help and air is week. The animal nursery can build the reek and acklay to fight with and it only costs food which is a plus. Galactic Syndicate:???? If you mean the Trade Federation then the no shelters thing is a major deal, especially when playing the capture and defend the monument scenario. That means you can concentrate on building troops and not shelters. They have great mechs (rivaled only by the Empire too). Air is week, troops are week (but easy to build w/no shelters) but their water is probably the second best. Only the Gunguns are better. Sith are a little week because of no masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 Odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 I see, perhaps I should have been more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 What is the Galactic Syndicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 It's a consortium of various criminal organizations, examples include the Hutt Cartel and the Black Sun, this is a good stick to lead some of the EU fans with and it's more in tune with the scope than say... the Gungans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I like it! Does it include Prince Xixor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Nairb - He's talking about his own RTS design, not about SWGB. Puzzlebox - I couldn't disagree more about the Galactic Syndicate being more "in tune with the scope" than Gungans. I'm assuming you say this because the Crime Syndicates are galaxy-wide like the other four whereas Gungans are not; that's true but there is also another aspect of the scope of the game that I feel excludes any sort of Crime Syndicate. Criminal Organisations may technically "wage war", but not in the sense of the other four. A Criminal Organisation will fight a war by getting a few hit men to take out high-ranking enemies. They certainly don't muster a military force, line up on opposite sides of the battlefield and attack en masse, which is what an RTS is all about - an essential aspect of the scope, if you will. At any rate, a Criminal Organisation would never wage war on any of the four other civs you've got there. They're allowed to exist because they aren't overly aggressive towards governments. But let's think of it this way: the closest thing we've got to a Galactic Syndicate in the world is the Mafia. How would the Mafia fit in to an RTS of the modern world? For example, World War II - play as Britain, USA, Germany, Russia and the Mafia? Crime Syndicates are important in Star Wars, but not when it comes to the battles that Star Wars are famous for, and not when it comes to designing a game to recreate those battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Combine that of course with the fact that in this "Syndicate" does NOT EXIST in any star wars book novel epic film cartoon comic or any other format doesn't help his arguments ]let me recap THE SYNDICATE DOESN'T EXIST IN STAR WARS IT'S MADE UP. the other four i'm fine with though i am furiuos about you inmsulting me by impyling i'm a dog who can be led by a stick EU fans arn't stupid they know star wars and they know the "syndicate" isn't even remotely star warsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Not to mention EUFans don't need to be specifically catered for. They're a sub-section of Star Wars fans in general. Most if not all EU Fans are also fans of the Movies, so if you include stuff from the movies in they will buy the game if it's got EU or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 IF GB2 has the same amount that GB1 had in it I think EU fans will be pleased anyway. Though remember some poeple just buy star wars games because it's got star wars on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok Nairb - He's talking about his own RTS design, not about SWGB. Puzzlebox - I couldn't disagree more about the Galactic Syndicate being more "in tune with the scope" than Gungans. I'm assuming you say this because the Crime Syndicates are galaxy-wide like the other four whereas Gungans are not; that's true but there is also another aspect of the scope of the game that I feel excludes any sort of Crime Syndicate. Criminal Organisations may technically "wage war", but not in the sense of the other four. A Criminal Organisation will fight a war by getting a few hit men to take out high-ranking enemies. They certainly don't muster a military force, line up on opposite sides of the battlefield and attack en masse, which is what an RTS is all about - an essential aspect of the scope, if you will. At any rate, a Criminal Organisation would never wage war on any of the four other civs you've got there. They're allowed to exist because they aren't overly aggressive towards governments. But let's think of it this way: the closest thing we've got to a Galactic Syndicate in the world is the Mafia. How would the Mafia fit in to an RTS of the modern world? For example, World War II - play as Britain, USA, Germany, Russia and the Mafia? Crime Syndicates are important in Star Wars, but not when it comes to the battles that Star Wars are famous for, and not when it comes to designing a game to recreate those battles. Star Wars is written to consist of thousands and thousands of worlds Vostoc and we can't simply compare it to reality, as I have it the Syndicate holds significant sway in the senate through corruption and out right controls many of the outer rim worlds. Do the Hutts not control Tatooine... The syndicate is like an oligarchy, there is no set leader generally and when one is necessary his stay in power is brief. Planets are conquered in the same fashion any of the other major factions do it; by replacing the leader or leaders of a government and installing their own. You are also mistaken in your analagy, it would not be Germany, Russia, France etc... it would be Sudetland, Perm or Champagne... DK- I can certainly write better than these second rate nips and as such the EU "community" won't have a problem with any of this. I should also point out it would in fact be considered EU and I found your comment particularly humorous in that regard. The whole idea of the EU is people expand upon Star Wars. If "you" won't accept new content then what, EEU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 That's all well and good but the fact is a crime syndicate, no matter how powerful, would never march to war, especially not against the Empire, Rebellion, Republic or Separatists. It just isn't the way crime syndicates do things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I only accept EU as something which has been written by a sensible Intelligent AUthentic Writer autorised by Lucas Literature to create High Quality Stuff which has some link to star wars. YOU have none of those qualities you never had them and you never will have them and the Syndicate flies in the face of all EU the only factual thing about this syndicate is prince xizor and he was in charge of black sun and he cared only for his own orginsation. The hutts didn't control tatooine during the time of the empire, for the most part corruption was stamped out in the senate by the empire because of one simple reason. THERE WAS NO SENATE AFTER ALDERAAN. and so no power over the empire which would have swiftly crushed this fictiuos garbage of a syndicate with a star destroyer and an understrength walker division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Actually Viceroy makes a good point - you say the Syndicate is "a good stick to lead some of the EU fans with" but if you contradict existing EU, the fans won't be terribly happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 And Puzzlebox you claim to be a purist but why come up with what your classing as new content EU that contradicts all other EU soley for the point of briningin in fans OF EU who will hate what you've tried to add toi the EU cosmos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 "I only accept EU as something which has been written by a sensible Intelligent AUthentic Writer autorised by Lucas Literature to create High Quality Stuff which has some link to star wars" -Good, I'm glad to see you have become a purist. "YOU have none of those qualities you never had them and you never will have them and the Syndicate flies in the face of all EU" -I warned you once before to keep it civil, do so. "The hutts didn't control tatooine during the time of the empire" -And the rebellion didn't exist the same time as the Republic, Idiot. As to the purist comment, I do not mind new material if it is written well and does not touch the story in any significant manner. About the hating me comment, take a number. If anything that I do to EU even comes close to what EU does with Star Wars then perhaps you do actually have a right to be upset. Vostok-The syndicate is inclusive to the Black Sun and some of the Shadows of the Empire content, I'm sure they won't mind a little healthy revision, after all they have done it so well to Star Wars... Vostoc- this one is kind of funny isn't it, they seem unable to take their own medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I think the message here is "do unto others". Just because EU takes extreme liberties with Star Wars doesn't mean you in turn should take extreme liberties with EU. You are still yet to address the fact that a crime syndicate doesn't march to battle. And if you're warning other to be civil you might want to set an example yourself and not call them "idiot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 He is very contradictory since all of what is classes as EU namely the novels is authorised by Lucsas Literature yet he says that accepting only that mnakes me a purist certainly an interesting take on things. I never once have been warned by you and even then i wouldn't take you any more seriuosly than i would a piece of dog slime on the sole of my slipers. EU has done nothing to star wars except continue on from where it left off and help link the films together. example how would you know what happened at ANsion if it wasn't for the book approaching storm which chronicles the ansion conflict and yet has obvious relevance since it's important enough to dispatch a pair of jedi there. this is stated in ep 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 I think the message here is "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and I'm not being extreme with it. Think of it as a corporation Vostok, if they can do it and get away with it they often will, the requirement to be a civ is that they are several times more pervasive than most factions, as for them fighting the the other main factions, the Rebel Alliance didn't stand a chance against the Empire head on and in the game we are only focusing on what is effectively a skirmish, in this instance it is quite possible for the Syndicate to pose a threat to the Empire or Rebellion or what have you, in the given conflict. The rebel victory was dependent on a number of impossible to implement factors as it is concerned with a game, at least effectively, this relates to a larger point and the general atmosphere of the game. You can't objectively use higher applicative standards when dealing with my Syndicate just because. I called him an idiot because his statement warranted it and he abbrasive in his post towards me. The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 That is not an excuse to justify your name calling, Puzzlebox. I thought you were an intelligent person, but your illogical double standard - calling someone an idiot while not allowing him to suggest a professional writer can write better than you - really doesn't support this. If you truly were as intelligent as you claim you'd set an example rather than reducing yourself to the lowest common denominator. Now, back on topic, allowing a crime syndicate to wage war on the same scale as what we see in the Battle of Geonosis is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon. would that be a threat I wonder. indeed vostok i agree with the geonosis comment the most a crime syndicate could do would be the baettle of the Dune sea and you see quite clearly what happened to jabba's syndicate. though it does bring up the question if one regiment of storm troopers is worth one jedi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 If Puzzlebox's design is only a small scale skirmish game on the same level as WarCraft 3, then the Syndicate is probably okay since you can recreate the Battle of Dune Sea - which is probably the largest battle a crime syndicate has ever been involved in. And let's face it, if your army can get beat up by a rookie Jedi, a Wookiee, a Princess in a bikini, a gambler, a blind guy and two droids, it's not worth including even at a small scale. Also, making it a small scale skirmish game will mean the only battle from the films you can recreate is the Battle of Yavin, which quite obviously sucks. Personally I'd rather a large scale game, so I can recreate all of the battles from the film, although this scale would further exclude inclusion of a crime syndicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 The let us put this rediculous Syndicate to the grave where it will rot away as if it had never existed and good riddance. Now can we please get back to constructive ideas, instead of unworkable Crackpot ideas by people of questionable mental standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 The let us put this rediculous Syndicate to the grave where it will rot away as if it had never existed and good riddance. besides if we were to have a game on that minute a scale we'd do better to get someone to make a star wars mod FOR warcraft 3 Now can we please get back to constructive ideas, instead of unworkable Crackpot ideas by people of questionable mental standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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