adillon Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 palpatine played everyone like a cheap fiddle ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey joe Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 how old is this dude anyways. He looked pretty rusty in Episode 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by adillon hmmm, so then by that rationale how could palpatine plan to do certain things if those series of events were already unravelling? if he was able to forsee a certain event, something that was destined to happen, how could anything he do possible change its outcome? always in motion, the future is. i like the theory, but I suspect that he did not influence dooku that early. however, I suspect that he had already teamed up with Dooku before Maul was dead, and that is why he sent Maul to be killed by Obi/Qui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin always in motion, the future is. i like the theory, but I suspect that he did not influence dooku that early. however, I suspect that he had already teamed up with Dooku before Maul was dead, and that is why he sent Maul to be killed by Obi/Qui. i will agree with the first and last statements, but i believe palpatine would have influenced dooku from very early on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 The problem with thinking that Dooku had the idea to influence Qui-Gon into finding Anakin and bringing him to be trained, because of Palpatine is fundamentally flawed. If Palpatine had forseen all this, then why bother to set it all up like this? He could have just picked up Anakin when he was just a wee tot, and raise him as a Sith in private. He would grow up to know nothing else, and would not have turned on the Emperor in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adillon Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin If Palpatine had forseen all this, then why bother to set it all up like this? He could have just picked up Anakin when he was just a wee tot, and raise him as a Sith in private. He would grow up to know nothing else, and would not have turned on the Emperor in the end. but then anakin wouldn't have become a padawan, wouldn't have struggled with his master, and wouldn't have grown a highly-influenced hatred for the jedi order. it's his turn to the darkside that fuels the jedi purge ... growing up sith might not have given anakin this extra bit of impetus, with a hatred for the 'good guys' that wasn't experienced first-hand. also, as we've seen in EP2, palpatine had the ability to play both sides of the war, and dooku was knowledgeable of this as well. he was more than able to influence his apprentice(s) and the jedi (to a degree) in order for his plan to come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockniel Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 but does sidious know that anakin is the "chosen one"? cause if he knew that anakin would bring balance to the force, why didn't he just kill him? I think that sidious just saw anakin as a powerful ally and nabbed him ...or something like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by adillon but then anakin wouldn't have become a padawan, wouldn't have struggled with his master, and wouldn't have grown a highly-influenced hatred for the jedi order. it's his turn to the darkside that fuels the jedi purge ... growing up sith might not have given anakin this extra bit of impetus, with a hatred for the 'good guys' that wasn't experienced first-hand. also, as we've seen in EP2, palpatine had the ability to play both sides of the war, and dooku was knowledgeable of this as well. he was more than able to influence his apprentice(s) and the jedi (to a degree) in order for his plan to come to fruition. good point, but the only inherent problem i see is that anakin probably would have purged the jedi of palpatines will, simply because palpatine was his master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 also, Maul grew up Sith, and he had at least as much hatred of the Jedi as Vader, if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 why does palpatine send maul to his death? was it a sacrifice to be rid of qui-gon, so that obi-wan would have to train ani alone? maybe qui-gon would have done a better job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 maybe he was a loose cannon, and he would have rushed Palp's plans. I suspect he was already working with Dooku and was afraid they could overpower him together (one master one apprentice). Maybe (as the EU suggests) he didn't like aliens (get this stunted slime out of my sight). There could be dozens of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 but if he didn't like aliens, then why take on maul as an apprentice in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adillon Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by rcsquirrel900 maybe qui-gon would have done a better job... ahh, now we go back to the root of this thread ... was qui-gon merely another pawn in palpatine's game to rule the galaxy? sure he was a loose cannon - he questioned the council's authority on numerous occassions (namely training anakin even though the council felt he was too old). and i DO agree with you, rcsquirrel900 ... i think either way anakin would have purged the jedi. i feel that anakin became a stronger sith because of the fact that palpy got into his head, and made him see (a twisted version) of what the jedi were doing, allowing him to grow to hate the order. i feel that a personally experienced hatred for something/someone is much more powerful than a hatred because you are told to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 why would palpatine allow dooku to capture obi, ani, and padme which would risk a slight chance of ani dying, making palpatine much weaker. when he could have done away with dooku(whom he doesn't seem to need anymore) and killed obi-wan while still allowing padme and ani to marry.(makes sense? i doubt it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 This is just my guess, nothing I know about the next movie. he needs Dooku as the final test of Anakins turn toward the dark side, by his forcefully replacing Dooku. If Anakin were to die in the arena, then Palpatine did not want him anyway. he also needs obi wan as the one that Anakin rebells against. as for Maul, he took him as an apprentice for the same reason that he worked with Nute Gunray, he was usefull, but to be eventually disposed of. The problem of a personal hatred, is that it is nearly impossible to completely remove the positive emotions involved, and this is what eventually led to his demise. The emperor new that Luke and Vader could not both live, or they would be a threat to him (because they have a closer bond to each other than him), so I am sure that Palpatine new the danger of such an attachment, and that knowing only hatred of Jedi was powerful enough (more powerful IMO) to fulfill his use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 that is a good theory, one i believe makes sense, good job Shok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adillon Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 i like that thinking, shok ... especially this one line he was usefull, but to be eventually disposed of which i believe can relate to just about anyone palpatine was directly associated with ... everything and everyone just as long as he gained ultimate and unchallenged power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Well, my theory is that the Force meant for things to happen because whether or not we try to control it, is ultimately controls us to where it can make things happen to balance itself out. Why else would it have created Anakin skywalker when there was no father figure? Why else would it have been on tattooine, where Qui-gon and Obi-wan would end up. It was all destiny to where not even Palpatine could control the outcome because he was never in control of the Force, only made to believe he was so that the Force could run its own path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by Andy867 Well, my theory is that the Force meant for things to happen because whether or not we try to control it, is ultimately controls us to where it can make things happen to balance itself out. Why else would it have created Anakin skywalker when there was no father figure? Why else would it have been on tattooine, where Qui-gon and Obi-wan would end up. It was all destiny to where not even Palpatine could control the outcome because he was never in control of the Force, only made to believe he was so that the Force could run its own path. i will agree with you for the most part, but i do think that the Force allows some room for choice. It allows each Jedi or Sith to choose how to allocate the force and what to do with their lives. So i think it is safe to say that Palpatine was in control of the force to some degree, just so long as the force saw balance at some point, which is all i think the force cares about. Why else would jedi be worried about going to the dark side, unless they had a choice. Because, according to your theory, the Force would ultimately decide If a force-user will be light or darlk, in which case, those force-users wouldn't have to be held accountable for how they use the force if the force controls them, not vica-versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by Andy867 is ultimately controls us partially, but it also obeys our commands - Obi-Wan Kenobi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 The force obeys our commands when it sees that it is fulfilling the its own agenda... Why else would the Force not allow the light-side to see what the dark-side was up to (being with Palpatine and Dooku planning the Clone War)? It was wanting to play out its plan by the best way that it saw to be with the ultimate outcome: Balance in the Force. Sure there may be flaws in my theory but I think it would best explain some things that otherwise remain a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Its not that the force did not allow the Jedi to know about what the Sith were up to, its that the Sith would not, they are the ones who were clouding their vision. If the force always saw to it that its will was carried out, how would there be practitioners of the dark side at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuuki Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by Lynk Former Just about everyone was Palpy's pawn really. so are you lynky, so are you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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