toms Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 A new report from international agency Oxfam today reveals that 45 million more children will die needlessly by 2015, because rich countries are failing to provide the necessary resources to overcome poverty. The report, Paying the Price, also calculates that 97 million more children will be out of school by 2015 unless urgent action is taken. Oxfam finds that rich countries’ aid budgets are half what they were in 1960 and poor countries are paying back a staggering $100 million a day in debt repayments. Barbara Stocking, Oxfam Director, said: “As rich countries get richer, they’re giving less and less. This is a scandal that must stop. The world’s poorest children are paying for rich countries’ policies on aid and debt with their lives. 2005 offers the chance of an historic breakthrough, but unless world leaders act now, the year will end in shameful failure.” http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/110234592548.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 hurray we're still ****ed. most people will probably brush it off as liberal bs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopster Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 We're too busy invading countries and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Death is always horrible, but I balk at the use of the term "die needlessly". Death is a natural process and it doesn't conform to human standards, it is neither "needful" nor "needless", ever. No more than sea-water is "needless", or aardvarks are "needless". And I hate to be the ogre to say this, but we do have a population problem. If we start eradicating death by disease, famine and poverty, we'll overrun what's left of the planet and ALL die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL I hate to be the ogre to say this, but we do have a population problem. If we start eradicating death by disease, famine and poverty, we'll overrun what's left of the planet and ALL die. I actually think most of us agree with that, as much as we'd like not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Bah I don't believe in those kinds of apocalyptic predictions. Humans will always find a way even if it means wasting what's left of the world's ressources. The question here is should we let them die? Remember one great fact here. Kids in those countries who do survive are sometimes turned into terrorists or soldiers for who knows which dictator. A great dilema. Save them and risk overpopulation? Or kill some of them so the survivors can waste other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Humans will always find a way Platitude without basis in fact. We're a relatively young species, dominant for a relatively short time. What exactly makes you so sure that we're indestructible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL Platitude without basis in fact. We're a relatively young species, dominant for a relatively short time. What exactly makes you so sure that we're indestructible? god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 The reason Homo sapiens survive while homo neerdantalis(spl?) went extinct was our ability to adapt. Look at the dinosaurs. Though a hypothesis only, they could not adapt. They were stuck in a certain environment, a certain way of life. However, mammals could. They did and we(mammals) are still here the dinosaurs. Humans will find a way to adapt. It's not like somekind of meteor will blow us all away so easily. Some will die, some will survive through adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I personally believe we'll be our own ending. Mankind will destroy mankind. Not through overpopulation but through nuclear war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 The reason Homo sapiens survive while homo neerdantalis(spl?) went extinct was our ability to adapt. Look at the dinosaurs. All successful species have the ability to adapt, that's why they're successful. Didn't stop them from going extinct, largely. And yes, let's look at the dinosaurs. They were magnificently well engineered for the Earth's environment, just as we are. THEY STILL DIED OUT. Just as we may do. It's not like somekind of meteor will blow us all away so easily.Oh? Exactly how will enough of us survive to repopulate the species in the event of a catastrophic meteor strike. We couldn't possibly build a bunker deep enough. Let alone the fact that we are not yet self-sufficient enough to survive indefinitely outside the planet's ecosystem. Forget all that nonsense America peddles about terraforming Mars, we're years and years away from even the first steps. I personally believe we'll be our own ending.A definite possibility, but precognition is counter-productive at this stage. We should try to prepare for EVERY eventuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 i really hate having to mention this, but your all assuming the theory of evolution as fact. creation is just as much a viable theory. sorry, but it had to be said. of course, now you guys are going to respond to me by saying that creation is not a viable theory because its religiously based and so on and so forth. sorry, but it takes just as much faith for me to believe we all came from monkeys some 24,000 years ago as for me to believe that God intelligently designed creation. and so you know, there is no way that i'll start believing in evolution until i see some concrete evidence that it occured. so far, that hasn't happened. to get back on topic: if you want to know what i believe will happen to mankind, read the book of Revelations and Ezekiel 38-39 in the Bible. since we're all coming up with theories, this one works just as well. granted, you actually have to believe this stuff as fact first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL A definite possibility, but precognition is counter-productive at this stage. We should try to prepare for EVERY eventuality. true. But I personally could care less how we meet our end. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 we could attempt to try to solve the problem overpopulation, but it will solve on it's own, one or another way. and i don't think it will necessarily kill us all. of course we could find a way, but only within limitations. and i doubt without any loss of human life. if humans don't make it in general, i am almost sure, nature has some other species to offer. saying that, i have to add, time is a big factor here, and regarding the terms of evolution, time on this planet and in this solar system is definitly running out. so humans are not most important. LIFE is most important. so IF we fail, then life will find a way, hopefully (if it hasn't yet). maybe we see the end coming and decide to put some bacterias into a couple of boxes and shoot them up to whoknowswhere. on the other hand wouldn't it be like taking toads over to australia? but then again.. is it impossible that the toad could have made it on her own some day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Stinger, for the penultimate time evolution is a more viable theory than creationism simply because it fits the available facts better than the skydaddy option. And frankly, nobody with any sense cares about creationism or the opinions of creationists anyway. true. But I personally could care less how we meet our end. *shrugs*Really? Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL Really? Why is that? Death is inevitable. I'm fine with that. And I know that I have limited time to do whatever the hell I'm here for. So each day I just try my best to make everyone happy along with succeeding in my goals for life. The day I die I'll know I did what I could to bring some good to peoples lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopster Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Population growth can level off. It doesn't have to be some spastic, exponential growth rate. Take the US and some European states for example, countries which also have decent food supplies. With a higher standard of living you wouldn't need to produce as many children to bring a survival level of income into your family. And while this planet does have a certain carrying capacity, we're not quite yet on its bleeding edge. Obviously if the human species ballooned to 10 billion+ overnight and every individual lived like an upper-middle-class American there might be some problems with certain resources (petroleum comes to mind), but better technologies can help to combat some of the effects our ravenous consumption would invariably produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Spider AL And frankly, nobody with any sense cares about creationism or the opinions of creationists anyway. Frankly, there seem to be more people that care about the opinions of creationists, than those that care about your opinion. Lemme know when a book based on your ideas surpasses the sales figures of the Bible. Until then, you're opinion seems to be not very important. You care about creationist opinion, or you wouldn't constantly talk about it. That makes you a person with "sense" I suppose...I can't follow your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 how could that happen, with 2000 years "advantage"? Originally posted by InsaneSith I know that I have limited time to do whatever the hell I'm here for. we all are 'here' for .. nothing. we just are. like everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by RayJones we all are 'here' for .. nothing. we just are. like everything else. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 And while this planet does have a certain carrying capacity, we're not quite yet on its bleeding edge.I beg to differ Loopster. Our current population consumes more of the world's resources than it can naturally replenish, thus we are PAST the bleeding edge. A greater population can only consume more, unless we all go massively green and THAT ain't gonna happen, not with America around. Frankly, there seem to be more people that care about the opinions of creationists, than those that care about your opinion.Sorry Colostomy, but if you're a creationist... I think I already pointed out... that I don't care what you think. And if not... I still don't. Lemme know when a book based on your ideas surpasses the sales figures of the Bible. Lol. Just a pointer: The bible isn't based on the ideas of creationists, the ideas of creationists are BASED on, note- BASED on, not directly drawn from, the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 right... of to one of the many evolution vs creation threads with all of you!!! Hasn't it been shown that as income, education and standards of living improve, the birth rate goes down? Many western countires aren't even producing enough kids to maintain their population. It is the population explosions in the developing world that is causing the huge overall population growth. I actually saw an issue of the west wing on friday which was about foriegn aid... (fictional account follows) where the majority of the population thought too much aid was given, and it should be cut. Eventually they lost and it was. But a journalist asked why the democrats had fought the issue on "helping people" when they should have fought it on issues of national security... it being in the US's interests to help and educate people in those countries as a way to prevent the spread of rogue states, dictators and terrorist recruitment. Of course, that was all fictionalised. but I still think it would be a better way to defeat terror, and hatred of the west and spread democracy to write off all their depts. After all, countries that spend all their income paying back interest on debts that they will never repay are hardly likely to be very fond of those who are loan-sharking them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Many western countires aren't even producing enough kids to maintain their population. It is the population explosions in the developing world that is causing the huge overall population growth. It's arguable that because developed countries consume huge quantities of "disposable" goods, their population, rising, falling or static, contributes prominently to the depletion of the planet's resources. Having made that point, it's irrelevant which countries have population explosions and which don't. The point is that we as a SPECIES are overpopulating the planet, and consuming it's resources. Eradicating death by disease and natural disaster will only WORSEN this problem. Yes, it may seem harsh, but I think our FIRST responsibility is to maintain the planet for our children and other species, and when we're all living green, THEN we can focus on eradicating disease. Make no mistake, most of the research into curing disease is destined to be merely a moneymaking exercise anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by RayJones we all are 'here' for .. nothing. we just are. like everything else. ok, then lets just all go do whatever the heck we want. since all of life has no meaning, why bother with rules that were made by other meaningless lives??? then, we can all just **** the consequences and go die somewhere tommorrow. [/sarcasm] and you people wonder why i believe the way i do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 that's not the point. the point is we have no meaning, life has no meaning, it's just something that happens somewhere in the universe. it is not of importance that it exists. it just does. it exists like countless stars, planets, atoms, quarks and whatever is "out there". of course we as humans are part of life and life's only "goal" is to spread. everywhere where it is not already. and to "reach" that goal there are some things necessary, like for instance the "urge" to survive (read: keep the species alive). that makes ****ing the consequences impossible for any lifeform, except it's for surviving of the species or the certain lifeform does not know the concept of consequences. and even then it wouldn't. and after all the universe existed without this whole planet and will exist without it. from a certain point of view it already exists without earth, since the days of our whole solar system are counted since its genesis. why you believe the way you do? hm. maybe i don't know. but maybe you need a meaning for whatever to feel comfortable with your existance. .. meh. i don't know. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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