The definitive Jedi Academy "Honorz" F.A.Q.: V. 1.0

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Druid Allanon

When majority of the servers have admin mods? I don't think so.

 

Not many know how to rent/buy a server, or 99% of the honor players would have their personal server set up by now, increasing the present number of servers many times. Also, given that majority of the community consist of honor players, only few players would join the 'no rules' server, therefore making the server's owner money useless.

 

Many don't know how, but I don't know if that's the case. Many are probably just unwilling to pay 20 bucks or more per month for a server. On the other hand, people are willing to pay half that much to play some MMORPG, which is usually little more than chatting and emoting anyway, so who knows...

 

The thing is many servers require a credit card or paypal and most kids don't have those (I'm not a kid and I don't even have one, but that's 'cause I'm broke, heh).

 

If 10+ honor players are in the server... THEY could vote kick off anyone who's playing the game.

 

That is a good point. A server may be infected with "honorz" and not be using an admin mod. If votekicking is enabled, the "honorz d00dz" merely need to outnumber the rest to get their way. That is why votekicking is a bad idea. TEAMvotekicking that is completely seperate from all other types of voting is good.

 

If somebody is screwing around in a FFA, who cares? They'll just lose due to lack of points, unless it's 1 vs 1...

 

Though the fact that at least 50% of the servers are running JA+ mod, a confirmed and consistently abusive mod, that doesn't help things any.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by razorace

So, why not run one of the more harmless admin mods to maintain control then?

 

Secondly, I doubt "education" will be anymore effective than trying to "education" the "competitive" players that jk2 style kicks were removed for a reason.

 

It seems to me that the reality of the situation is that the gunner/"competitive" community is simply very small compared to the RPGing community. The gunners/"competitive" people don't like to admit that so the vocal minority complains about it.....a LOT.

 

I tend to disagree. The "RPGing" community is actually quite small. The folks who actually use the game as a platform for LARPing (well, as close as you could do it in a video game.. but you get the idea... using the characters to act out some fantasy) is tiny. They will generally either use private servers or try to use a mod designed for actual RPGing. While these folks might pop into public servers now and then, they generally can't get others to go along with their novel ideas, and so end up frustrated.

 

Now I'm not talking about the random player who says "LOL! I sabered you just like Darth Maul did in the movie!" but rather people who actually insist the game be played like some RPG, not as an FPS or competative game. I seperate this distinction from honor players, because the honor players are still playing the game, AFTER they've tacked on some extra rules (like the bowing, don't use certain powers, duels only, etc).

 

The honorz folks aren't claiming to be role playing (well not usually) but they are claiming that their "rules" make the game "more fun" or "more fair" etc. They call the stuff they forbid "lameness." It's a narrow minded view, but very different from the RPG mindset. The RPGers are playing a whole different game, in their heads.

 

The "honorz" community is rather large, I admit that, and it annoys me as much as the next gamer. These are the folks who insist on a list of rules be followed by everyone, relating to the 'proper way' to duel.

 

However, this community has NOT taken over the JA community. Your statements are true of the JK2 community, since anyone can see that the majority of JK2 servers are sabers only + force, running an admin mod specifically designed for "honor enforcement."

 

While half the JA servers are running JA+ Mod, they are not typically sabers only. Most servers allow all weapons. Likewise, while most servers are running SOME MOD, not all are running an honor inducive mod like JA+.

 

So while there are a lot of "honorz" players in JA, they don't seem to be the majority, like they are in JK2.

 

Now as to the WHINERS, the people who will kick you if you beat them, and whine for votekicks against people who beat them, those people are plentiful in EVERY game, and no amount of mods (or lack thereof) will change that.

 

The only way to beat these folks is to prevent them from vote kicking random people, use flood checks, and kick their butts until they disconnect. As long as they don't have admin powers, who cares what they say...

 

One can't really design a mod to satisfy whiners, since the only happy whiner is the one who has full admin access and control. A whiner going from server to server has to win all the time on HIS TERMS, and since that isn't bound to happen, he whines.

 

Nowadays if I am looking to play some JA, and not on my own server, I click on the "server info" button. And if I see "JA+ Mod" I simply look elsewhere. Saves a lot of time and effort... I also generally ignore Sabers Only maps, though due to an oversight or something, many servers labelled "sabers only" are actually ones where they just disabled even one weapon (like the Concussion Rifle or something silly like that), and it appears as if it was only sabers. ; )

[razorace]

Well, based on the people that have been showing up on my server, the player population seems to be evenly split between the various player "clicks".

[Rumor]

Originally posted by razorace

Well, based on the people that have been showing up on my server, the player population seems to be evenly split between the various player "clicks".

 

"Cliques"

[Greyjoy]

This is exactly why I just ignore the chat box and play with everything available or useful at the time. I might get kicked so what, as long as you're having fun who really cares.

[Kurgan]

Ah, classic thread revival. Things have gotten worse in some ways... now JA+ basically dominates the JA community (though it is slightly outnumbered by mod free servers), however in recent years, JA+ has gotten far less abusive and fewer and fewer servers use the old versions of the mod that still had the abusive commands in them. The people not using JA+ are using MovieBattles II, Blademod, Forcemod III or nothing (with most of the others in single digits or nonexistent in terms of public servers). The number of servers that ban certain weapons rises and falls, the force banning servers still seem to be the minority (though that too fluctuates.. I imagine because a server may rotate between running a FFA map with everything and then running it sabers only, with no or low force).

 

What's annoying is servers that have mana regen turned way up (so your mana fully regenerates in less than 5 seconds, meaning you can spam forever, even if all force powers are disabled... you can spam saber moves that normally eat mana for breakfast, which was done intentionally to preven them being spammed in combat).

 

 

Anyway, the Meatgrinder is still around and always has been honor free, so you're welcome anytime to go there and see what a real game looks like.

 

For awhile we were running nothing but "Enhanced" with its new alternative saber system which some people (myself included) just couldn't get used to. Now we're running basic, and have a secondary server running Enhanced, so it's all cool. Basic is just basejka with a few extra options, bug and exploit fixes, but the same classic JA gameplay.

[Zee123]

Hi Kurgan.

 

Just wanted to say that I absolutely love the Meatgrinder. Thanks for creating such an awesome server! I find that on the whole the folks at the meatgrinder are a lot more courteous and better sports than the people on many of the other servers that I've stumbled across. I guess it's good when the player with the worst language is usually one of the bots (they do say some strange things sometimes), and although sometimes I start to doubt whether they really are better than the basejka bots (why do they always stack on top of each other in ctf?), but given that I have no modding experience myself, I guess I shouldn't complain and just appreciate the fact that they can play siege and are, for the the most part, fairly accurate shots.

 

So again, thanks. I've definitely found myself a place to play.

[Kurgan]

Thanks it means a lot! The latest version of the Meatgrinder of course has other people to thank as well, namely RazorAce for OJP, without which we wouldn't have those Siege playing bots (I actually rigged up some siege playing bots myself on the old meatgrinder, but there's only so much you can do with them without new coding, since I lack that skill), or many of the exploit fixes and things like Holocron and Jedi Master working so well. And you should thank the guys at EscapedTurkey who've been a stable source for a server for a long time now. And thank our other admins, Lathain Valtiel and OnlyOneCannoli who've sacrificed many hours slaughtering noobs and good players alike to help build up our reputation to the public at large.

 

And there's other regulars and people who offer helpful suggestions, it's now a team effort. I always hoped to draw like minded gamers who were fed up with the "honorz" stuff and just wanted to play a good game of JA, and also get some of these team based modes that were sadly being neglected a chance. And it's turned out beautifully, I'm very pleased.

 

Enjoy your stay there, like I said, you're always welcome.

[Zee123]

True true.

 

I count myself quite fortunate in the fact that the meatgrinder was one of the first servers that I stumbled across when I first started JA Multiplayer earlier this year, which kept me from being subjected to all that honor stuff. Too bad not enough people seem to go there... the place seems to spend quite a bit of time empty...

[Lathain Valtiel]

Yeah, few can tolerate being mercilessly annihilated again and again in such gametypes as FFA. Whenever I look at grinder on FFA, no one's or almost no one's there.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, few can tolerate being mercilessly annihilated again and again in such gametypes as FFA. Whenever I look at grinder on FFA, no one's or almost no one's there.

 

 

That's probably pretty true. A lot of people see FFA and if it's not a safe, low force sabers only set with a nice admin mod to protect them, they probably shy away.

 

FFA on Meatgrinder has ALWAYS been the least popular gametype (well apart from Team FFA and CTY, though in the latter at least people join and play for abit before moaning and quitting). Our most popular has always been Siege.

 

It could be some people are bored with FFA, but I can't imagine why since there are so few FFA servers to play on, most people probably haven't played a game of real FFA in months, if not years, and would get a fresh experience had they tried!

 

Oh well. Yeah, we have our hardcore regulars, but they tear up the noobs so fast, I can't blame them for not saying. Too bad...

 

That's another reason why we try not to stay on one gametype for too long in the rotation (though if it were just 24/7 Siege rotation, that wouldn't be too much of a problem, going by past experience).

[Lathain Valtiel]

I don't see how you can be bored of FFA yet not bored of Siege... Siege is more rigid than FFA by far.

[Kurgan]

Well it's the team dynamic that makes it interesting. Plus a lot more people have played FFA than Siege (a lot shunned it because it looked too hard back in the day or because they never learned because there was no bot support and they didn't know you could try it out offline).

 

That and if you lose, you can always blame your crappy team.

[Zee123]

Yeah, few can tolerate being mercilessly annihilated again and again in such gametypes as FFA. Whenever I look at grinder on FFA, no one's or almost no one's there.

 

Yup. The bots in general seem to be pretty good shots with the rockets and disruptors, and they don't seem to do much sabering, which I suppose can turn off some of the new folks. And regulars for the most part certainly don't take the time to say hello and welcome the new kids before shooting them. Again, not the most welcoming environment. I started myself as quite the saber-happy newb, and was starting to get a bit frustrated at the rockets flying everywhere, until kron came along and gave me some pointers. Things have gone pretty good since then.

 

Seems to me that the majority of FFA players there are ones who decide to stay a little bit after seige

[Lathain Valtiel]

The bots are nightmares with the disruptor. I actually RUN whenever I see a bot carrying one, because they WILL destroy you if you try to outgun them 90% of the time, it's that simple.

[Kurgan]

Well I admit I got a little used to people being "welcoming" and saying hi and stuff in JK1 and was a little put off when I started playing Q3 (sporadically) and UT (a lot) and it was mostly just silence, except somebody cursing when they got killed or going "LOL" after they blew somebody up, though the customary "gg's" at the end was still common.

 

I figured that I was just hitting a lot of younger players or non-english speakers (though again I was wrong there, since they would type in their own language at the appropriate times as well).

 

I guess the lack of chatter could imply people who are more engrossed in the game (and a non-team game) and just don't have the "time" to start up a conversation.

 

Still, as a host for many years in various games, I'd always at least say hi. I made sure to do this as there was one guy who joined, said hi, and when nobody said hi back, he said "okay fine" and left! (I was busying fighting people at the time and didn't think he'd leave just because nobody returned his greeting!). Some folks are actually incapable of hitting the score table to check and see who's on the server, and assume that because nobody is running past them in their immediate vicinity, they are alone in the server! (so they use textual communication to try to see if other human players are around).

 

It's funny how people are sometimes.

 

Personally I can't stand it on some servers though when there is CONSTANT chatter, to the point where you can't even read what people are saying because it gets pushed back by the next thing so fast (and not even spamming). This was the case on some "more popular" JK2/JA servers I joined (which shall remain nameless) wherein a large number of the people weren't even playing, but just talking. I figure if some folks are that chatty, they should either get out of the game and into a chat room or get a headset so they can speak freely without annoying everyone else (as in most online FPS games, the chat text makes a noise every time you enter it and you can't turn that off without muting the sound entirely).

[MasterRoss08]

Hmmm I was just looking at this thread and i guess just wanted to say whats on my mind here. know this that i do have Ja on the x-box. but dont play online since you gotta pay 2 get x box live. I am saddend from what i was reading of how some people want to play this game. the Honor thing sounds real stinky. the weapons are there for a reason. 2 use them. yaya lightsabers are cool and all but shouldnt be the only weapon you have to use. Ctf should have no honor code at all. only honor code there should b in my view is just b a good sport not all this bowing and you can only kill me with a lightsaber thing. it sad that good games always have these dumb stupid problems like this. what happend to just coming on to have fun -.- . I may actually wanna get Ja on pc when i get a new comp which isnt to far from now. i pretty sure this game is still popular and will be for a time.