:/ = My feelings on TSL (Spoilers aplenty, don't view if you don't want em,simple as)

[Okoru]

Well after 37 Hours(Much longer than I would've expected after reading many of the posts here.) I finished TSL, and I am left feeling empty, incomplete, like the rest of this game. KOTOR 1 was a masterpiece, and BOTH endings were outstanding, and left room for a sequel, but also left MORE THAN ENOUGH closure. TSL ending is basically a slap in the face with a sign saying "HAHA! Wait for KOTOR 3 and pay more!"

 

But I won't have too much of a go at the game, as I did(Make NO mistake) enjoy it a lot, but it just felt very empty at times.

 

The story has a lot of plotholes, and causes yet more little annoying niggling clashes with the EU(Probally only annoys me as I love the Old Republis EU era a lot.)

 

 

1/Why in god's name do they not give you some more backstory to Exile? Even now I know NOTHING of what he did at Malachor 5 that was so terrible? I have gathered he had Bao-Dur active some kind of explosive that killed my Jedi/Republic, along with the Mandos. Can someone give me more detail on this please.

 

2/Sion is utterly confusing, he and Nithus(SP?) beat the crap outta Kreia/Treya and stripped her of her power, and exiled her, they rose to be the new Sith Lords. So then I ask why in god's name does Sion suddenly wanna be her pet when you kill him? Makes NO sense at all. :/

 

3/Kreia's damn line "There must always be a Darth Treya" is confusing, VERY. Does she mean there must always be a leader of the Malachor Academy(The names are very similar.) or what? Makes little sense

 

4/What exactly was Darth Nithus? A wound in the force like the Exile? Then how did he come to be? Why did Kreia not use him instead of the Exile? Why could we not have subtitled what he was saying? In whatever freaky language he spoke in.

 

5/Exile never explains/is never told WHY he walked away from Revan and Malak after the Mando wars, and why he cut himself off from the Force. I understand the whole story angle of "He can create bonds, bend wills, even without knowing it." And "Kreia hates the force because of it determining people's fates."

 

I quite like what they did with Exile there, he was so strong/gifted with the ability to bond, that when he cut himself off from the Force, he created this "Wound" and causes "Echos" by his actions. But what I wonder is WHY he cut himself off.....

 

Now to be fair, I played through as a PURE Dark sider, so I havn't heard what the Jedi Order has to say if you get them back together, perhaps they explain more, perhaps not, can someone fill me in with detail please?

 

 

And I know this is nothing new, but some of the things they made clash with the EU really irritates me.

 

1/Darth shouldn't be used for another 3000 years when Bane extablishes the "Rule of 2".(I said the exact same thing about KOTOR 1 BTW.)

 

2/Naga Sadow was NEVER laid to rest on Korriban, he fled from Korriban after his borked attempt to take over the Galaxy, and was chased away by whoever the new Sith Lord was. He fled to Yavin 4 and died there, until his spirit was awoken by Freedon Nadd, who eventually destroyed Sadow's spirit, once he had grown strong enough in the Dark side of the Force.

 

3/Small thing that most probally don't know, Ludo Kressh was killed when his flagship was destroyed, I don't think there would've been anything left to entomb, let alone a skeleton.

 

4/And this is the one that really bugs me, people saying "Revan" went to fight the REAL Sith. That's bull****, and I wish people would get to grips with that. Revan NEVER stole anything, there were no other "Sith" in the Galaxy, there were some in hiding, but they didn't reveal themselves, many were left from the war of Exar Kun, others perhaps desendants of the Sith Empire of Marka Ragnos, that has never been explained in detail what happened to them after Nadd's time(He rose up away from the Empire, as there was a Dark Lord currently ruling over them, this is why he only held power over Onderon, he knew if he tried to branch out, the Sith would destroy him.)

 

Now to be fair, the EU clashes are mostly down to the people who wrote said events on EU, and either not explaining them in more detail, or clashing them with other EU material. Some things have NEVER been explained in ANY EU, like the fate of the Sith Empire(See above) So perhaps it is possible Revan sensed they still lived, and went to find them. Who knows, only the story writers for KOTOR 2. >

 

*Rant off*

[Drazin]

Play it again.

 

But to answer your questions as far as I have gleened from all the dialogues I have come across while playing.

 

Here goes.

1. Bao-dur created the Mass Shadow Generator. It used the gravitaional anomolies consistent in the planets of Malachor 5 to draw them together, crushing them against each other. This killed millions of Jedi and Mandalorian in seconds. The Exile was the General in command who gave the Order for Bao-Dur to activate the generator.

 

 

 

2. Sion and Nihilus got sick of waiting for Kreia to act. Much like Revan and Malek did with the Jedi Council. Except Nihilus and Sion attacked Kreia and cast her out. But Kreia learned much about manipulation from the Sith Holocrons there, and She IS Darth Traya. Sion knows she is better than he is, and as much as he hates being 2nd place, he knows his place. He also knows about the Exile and Kreia has a plan that may benefit him aswell. I think maybe he actually felt remorse for what he did to Kreia and wants to be her best pupil ever, which means you gotta go.

 

 

 

3. There must always be a Darth Traya. There must always be an enemy. Without something to focus on and fight against, life grows complacent and stagnant. There will always be good versus Evil. Always.

 

 

 

4. Darth Nihilus Died at Malachor. But was reborn through the echo created by the destruction on Malachor and by you Cutting off your ties to the force so abruptly. He learned what you eventually do, that you can feed off the force and the force of those around you. He however used it for evil, while you did it unknowingly. It is because of what you did that he learned how to do what you do. Kreia didnt use him because he did not create the wound in the force. You did. And to fix or destroy the force forever, you had to be there.

 

 

 

5. The Exile HAD to walk away. His Force bonds he creates so easily and without knowing had him like, Hard wired into the Force of so many people around him. And when he gave the Order to destroy Malachor 5, All that death was felt by him, and had he not severed his connection to the force, he would have died. Doing this would be like losing your eyesight and hearing at once. And he could no longer truly function as a general without his force abilities. He thought he was punished by the Force for what he did, or that the council punished him. And was exiled. Though it was his choice to leave the order, I guess somehow he knew it was for the best and that his journey had only just begun. The Jedi Council explains much of this during the lightside confrontation on Dantooine.

 

 

Hope that helps chief.

It is debateable, which I like. This is what 'I' took from the game. Others may have a different idea.

[Okoru]

Helps a bunch

 

 

GREAT job on Nihilus, that clears up pretty much any questions I had about him, though I wonder why he was the only one, since Exiles order killed thousands, maybe millions. And after your explanation I'm very angry at how little he featured, he and the Exile are really the Yin and Yang, would've been nice to see more of that.

 

 

 

About Sion and Kreia, I think your right, I quote the diagloue from Korriban, or close to it hehe. "It will be as if I killed her children." etc, in that he hates you for being her new pet thing. But I can't stop thinking about how badly he beat her, and later sliced her hand off, and yet he suddenly becomes loyal again. :/

 

 

 

Darth Treya makes no sense, I understand EXACTLY the speech about stagnation, and there is always evil/enemys, totally, always preached that, but the Dark Force/Jedi are always there, "Treya" is just Kreia's Sith name, its confusing the way they word it.

 

 

Much thanks Draz

[Drazin]

Anytime bud

Dont worry, I didnt undestand half what I just wrote the first couple play throughs.

[Venom750]

Thanks it asked alot of my questions:D

[metalhead]

 

Darth Treya makes no sense, I understand EXACTLY the speech about stagnation, and there is always evil/enemys, totally, always preached that, but the Dark Force/Jedi are always there, "Treya" is just Kreia's Sith name, its confusing the way they word it.

 

 

 

The part with Darth Treya, I believed ment they will alway be a betrayer. Cuz Treya was the betrayer, and she said it it Atris who, I believe, betrayed the Jedi Council. So, I assumed it ment there will always be someone who will betray.

 

 

That's just what I thought when I heard that line.

[Drazin]

Possibly. But if you killed Atris, that is one less betrayer also. Though I think Atris' betrayel was studying the Sith. That is Taboo and not allowed by Jedi, it is means for severe punishment or exile by the Jedi. It could just be that Kreia is wise enough to know that someone will replace her. There will be another manipulator, another betrayer, another Great evil. And there will rise a hero to face it.

[Dragonball Fan]

Originally posted by Okoru

Well after 37 Hours(Much longer than I would've expected after reading many of the posts here.) I finished TSL, and I am left feeling empty, incomplete, like the rest of this game. KOTOR 1 was a masterpiece, and BOTH endings were outstanding, and left room for a sequel, but also left MORE THAN ENOUGH closure. TSL ending is basically a slap in the face with a sign saying "HAHA! Wait for KOTOR 3 and pay more!"

 

But I won't have too much of a go at the game, as I did(Make NO mistake) enjoy it a lot, but it just felt very empty at times.

 

The story has a lot of plotholes, and causes yet more little annoying niggling clashes with the EU(Probally only annoys me as I love the Old Republis EU era a lot.)

 

 

1/Why in god's name do they not give you some more backstory to Exile? Even now I know NOTHING of what he did at Malachor 5 that was so terrible? I have gathered he had Bao-Dur active some kind of explosive that killed my Jedi/Republic, along with the Mandos. Can someone give me more detail on this please.

 

2/Sion is utterly confusing, he and Nithus(SP?) beat the crap outta Kreia/Treya and stripped her of her power, and exiled her, they rose to be the new Sith Lords. So then I ask why in god's name does Sion suddenly wanna be her pet when you kill him? Makes NO sense at all. :/

 

3/Kreia's damn line "There must always be a Darth Treya" is confusing, VERY. Does she mean there must always be a leader of the Malachor Academy(The names are very similar.) or what? Makes little sense

 

4/What exactly was Darth Nithus? A wound in the force like the Exile? Then how did he come to be? Why did Kreia not use him instead of the Exile? Why could we not have subtitled what he was saying? In whatever freaky language he spoke in.

 

5/Exile never explains/is never told WHY he walked away from Revan and Malak after the Mando wars, and why he cut himself off from the Force. I understand the whole story angle of "He can create bonds, bend wills, even without knowing it." And "Kreia hates the force because of it determining people's fates."

 

I quite like what they did with Exile there, he was so strong/gifted with the ability to bond, that when he cut himself off from the Force, he created this "Wound" and causes "Echos" by his actions. But what I wonder is WHY he cut himself off.....

 

Now to be fair, I played through as a PURE Dark sider, so I havn't heard what the Jedi Order has to say if you get them back together, perhaps they explain more, perhaps not, can someone fill me in with detail please?

 

 

And I know this is nothing new, but some of the things they made clash with the EU really irritates me.

 

1/Darth shouldn't be used for another 3000 years when Bane extablishes the "Rule of 2".(I said the exact same thing about KOTOR 1 BTW.)

 

2/Naga Sadow was NEVER laid to rest on Korriban, he fled from Korriban after his borked attempt to take over the Galaxy, and was chased away by whoever the new Sith Lord was. He fled to Yavin 4 and died there, until his spirit was awoken by Freedon Nadd, who eventually destroyed Sadow's spirit, once he had grown strong enough in the Dark side of the Force.

 

3/Small thing that most probally don't know, Ludo Kressh was killed when his flagship was destroyed, I don't think there would've been anything left to entomb, let alone a skeleton.

 

4/And this is the one that really bugs me, people saying "Revan" went to fight the REAL Sith. That's bull****, and I wish people would get to grips with that. Revan NEVER stole anything, there were no other "Sith" in the Galaxy, there were some in hiding, but they didn't reveal themselves, many were left from the war of Exar Kun, others perhaps desendants of the Sith Empire of Marka Ragnos, that has never been explained in detail what happened to them after Nadd's time(He rose up away from the Empire, as there was a Dark Lord currently ruling over them, this is why he only held power over Onderon, he knew if he tried to branch out, the Sith would destroy him.)

 

Now to be fair, the EU clashes are mostly down to the people who wrote said events on EU, and either not explaining them in more detail, or clashing them with other EU material. Some things have NEVER been explained in ANY EU, like the fate of the Sith Empire(See above) So perhaps it is possible Revan sensed they still lived, and went to find them. Who knows, only the story writers for KOTOR 2. >

 

*Rant off*

 

Post deleted by Darth333: Flaming will not be tolerated. You have already been warned more than once for similar posts XBebop.

[witchfinder]

I played through as a LS jedi, is the ending cutscene exactly the same if you play as DS ?

(Is it still the Ebon Hawk picking you up and escaping Malachor?)

 

 

 

 

Does Kreia tell you the exact same things about your party members? If not, what does she say?

 

[Okoru]

Originally posted by XBebop

Too damn bad, blablabla*. They got you to waste your money didn't they? blablabla*

 

blablabla*I already said I really enjoyed the game, and that's why I didn't bash it more.

 

I payed for it, I have the damn right to critise or praise as I see fit, you don't like it? Tough luck jerk, its a public opinion forum.

 

* edited by Darth333: when you see an inappropriate post, please use the report post button at the bottom of the post.

[starrchild]

Ok, I'm going to throw in my two cents worth now..

 

I've played through the game once as LS female, and while I did enjoy the game, I agree with the above posters about gaping plotholes and muddled/missing explanations. No brownie points for LA and Obsidian for rushing this game onto the market only half done.

 

Some of the things I found annoying:

 

 

The villians. *Bad* idea to have 3 of them. The split focus was annoying and distracting. If there had to be more than one, there should only have been two, either Darth Nihil and Kreia or Sion and Kreia.

 

Darth Nihil was just a waste of game resources, in my opinion. He was built up to be this black hole in the Force, this non-human creature who was going to destroy all life in the galaxy, but when it came down to it, he was so easily defeated with Visas' help, that he was a big disappointment. Meh. That destroyed *any* of the previous tension build-up. What would have been much more effective would be for Nihil's body to disappear and only his robe remain behind (a la Obi-Wan Kenobi), which would have better fit Nihil's previous descriptions. That way, you never know *who* he had been before the events of Malachor V, he retains his air of mystery, and who knows, he could've maybe made an appearance in KOTOR III in a non-corporeal form.

 

Sion would've been better served characterization-wise to remain Kreia's loyal lap dog, instead of betraying her, then wanting to be her pupil again. That doesn't make very good psychological sense, but I guess the writers wanted to reinforce the theme of betrayal, i.e. Kreia does betray the Exile by wanting to destroy the Force. If he had remained loyal, then the Exile's undermining of his faith in Kreia (on Malachor V in the Sith Academy) would've have much more of an impact, seeing him lose his faith in her, realizing he had only been a tool to be used then cast aside.

 

 

 

Female romances (or *lack of them):

I can't speak too much to the male romance options, not having played through the game as a male char' and only reading about them on various forums, but the ladies were *not* served very well in this game. I know alot of folks didn't like Carth in KOTOR I, either as a party member char' or a romance option, but at least he was able to articulate his feelings for the PC in a (relatively) mature fashion; I guess his late wife was able to train him a little bit . But the choices this time were: a conceited_sounding prig who put you on a pedestal, or a guy who acted like a 3rd grade school boy who had a crush on you and showed it by giving you a noogie and running to the other end of the playground. *Sigh* Just because the *game* has a Teen rating, doesn't mean the chars' have to *act* like teen-agers.

 

Oh for more women writers in the gaming industry; only guys would put those chars' in for the women, thinking that would be appealing to them (). And I'm not *even* going to go into the whole Handmaiden, only thru combat is a person's true nature revealed, views hand-to-hand combat as a metaphor for sex, then after having been defeated becomes submissive to the male PC rant, because I don't want someone to write a "this is just/only a game, so why are you so uptight about it?"post. I beat you to it, so there .

 

 

That's all I can think of for now; others have posted more eloquently about the other problems, so I'll just leave it at this.