Nihilus/ Sion Cutscene?

[90SK]

I was looking through the sound files, and I noted that it seems there was a scene between Nihilus and Sion, in which Sion says to Nihilus:

 

 

"The jedi order is finished. I did, what with all your power, you could not do. There is more: Darth Traya yet lives. You did not kill her as you assumed. Our alliance is finished, I have no need of you. I have *never* needed you."

.

 

I didn't encounter this in-game, but it seems as though all the scripts and files are there for it. Also, there is a cutscene between Tobin and Nihilus that I didn't encounter either, but its the same story as the other one (all scripts, utc, and sounds are present). Has anyone encountered the scenes in game?

[nas77]

I think this stuff was cut from final release.

[Ellderon]

Looks like we keep finding more and more stuff that has been cut out..

 

If it continues like this, it might as well turn out that half the game was cut!

[Bobo]

or 7/8 of the game was cut lol

 

lol we've found whole worlds cut, so many cutscences cut.. which is ironic...

 

we've found a missing party member even!

 

there wasnt as much cut stuff as there was in Kotor I. infact only 1 world was cut and that was it lol

 

but infact it wasnt cut. it was never added. Sleyheyron was never added in the first place so i guess barely any thing was cut cept a couple items

[90SK]

I did some more digging and I discovered why the Sion/Nihilus scene was cut. It was supposed to take place after Visquis blows up the Jekk'Jekk Tarr, and supposedly the exile with it. Then it cuts to Sion telling Nihilus of the exile's death

"She died on the smuggler's moon, <angry> and she did not die as I intended."

right before he informs Nihilus of Traya. I also found the .dlg file for this exchange, and it hinted that Sion gets killed by Nihilus. It looks like we would have seen some of Nihilus' true power, and I'm sad that it was cut (it would be easy to put back in, the scripts seem to be there).

 

As for the Tobin scene, I could have sworn it was in, and it has no reason to not be (it gives some intro to the Telos sequence). Like the Nihilus scene, all the scripts, npcs, dlgs, and sounds are there. I think there was a trigger too, though I can't really tell.

[RaV™]

I say we go ****ing gouge Obsidian's eyes out for cutting so much, christ its like ALIEN VS PREDATOR! which was pretty good even though there were plenty of errors o.O what was the world cut from the 1st?

[90SK]

Its not OE’s fault they had to cut that stuff. LA and Microsoft accelerated the timetables, and they had to finish the game ahead of scedual.

[RaV™]

erm..okay then lets go GOUGE THEIR ****ING EYES OUT <_<

[nas77]

I'm getting the impression from C.Skye that a lot of the files required for these scenes are present. If this is the case, and I'm not just misinterpreting what he said, then, to those who have found these files, would you say there was enough there to make you wonder whether time constraints were the true reason for cutting some of this stuff out? I mean if it's all substantially there how much more time would it have taken to incorporate it into the game?

[Ellderon]

A day more than Lucas Arts wanted..that's how much..

 

@Bobo - "we've found a missing party member even!"

What? Whom & where? Atris?

[Prime]

But you guys don't know all the reasons that things were cut and are jumping to conclusions. It is not always from time constraints. Perhaps they decided to change the direction the story went. Perhaps there were elements that they felt didn't fit into the story well enough. I'm not saying time wasn't a factor, but digging out every little thing and assuming it was removed for time is likely a mistake. And TSL is certainly not unique in the fact that cut game elements are included in the final version. Remember when Jedi Academy was going to let you fly X-Wings around? Most of the stuff is still in there...

[90SK]

^^^

 

Prime has a point. The whole Visquis blowing up the Jekk'Jekk tarr scene seemed to be replaced by the Goto confrontation. I'm still confused about the Tobin/ Nihilus scene. Wasn't it in the game? I didn't see it, but I had heard about it bafore I found it's sound files, and there is no reason to cut it.

[Achilles]

The whole comparison to KotOR I is kinda weak too. Sleyheron was cut (textures can be found in the game files), as were parts of Taris (a Gamorrean camp in the sewers as well as another level of the Vulkar base). The Sarlacc pit was cut from Tatooine, epic quests involving enslaved Wookies, the Hutt mafia, etc were all cut.

 

Developers start out with a laundry list of things to include and sometimes something that seemed brilliant during the "idea" phase just doesn't work when it comes time to put it in the game. To rally a witchhunt against OE just because they've done something that every other game developer (movie director, software developer, etc) has done seems more than a little ridiculous. But that's just my 2 cents

[RaV™]

They cut that much stuff? And was the Pit there since the begginning of Tatooine?

[Achilles]

Originally posted by Darth_Krow

They cut that much stuff? And was the Pit there since the begginning of Tatooine?

They sure did, and I just skimmed the surface. Read through dialog.tlk sometime and you'll find a lot of stuff that didn't make it to the final cut. My guess is that no one put up much of a fuss cuz it was the first game and there were few expectations. Because it was so successful people are going through the sequel with a fine-toothed comb.

[gonzzalez]

I dont think the arguments concerning the removed material are to do with the fact that they were removed and nothing else, but more that the game was left with a very incoherent feel.

 

If the game would have still been enjoyable then there would be nowhere near as much criticism as there is now, and to think the reason for this might be LA trying to push a christmas release.... well its infuriating quite frankly

[RaV™]

It would be hard to make the pit apart of the storyline, cause i doubt being captured by dark jedi and them torturing you over the pit would work -_-

[Achilles]

Originally posted by gonzzalez

I dont think the arguments concerning the removed material are to do with the fact that they were removed and nothing else, but more that the game was left with a very incoherent feel.

 

If the game would have still been enjoyable then there would be nowhere near as much criticism as there is now, and to think the reason for this might be LA trying to push a christmas release.... well its infuriating quite frankly

Aside from the cutscene with Goto and Remote, I felt that the game was very coherent. Like many art-house flicks, they did not provide you with "the story" in a nice little package with a tidy little bow, but I enjoyed having to piece together information to figure out what happened. While the aforementioned cutscene is kinda glaring, I think OE should be commended for writing such an engaging story.

 

BTW, I'm well aware that my viewpoint is in the minority. Those of you who disagree with my sentiments may proceed with your flaming now.

[nas77]

Something I don't understand is why devs keep the material for parts that have been cut out in the game folder. Is it because they forgot to remove them; or they wanted to slyly show us LA were asking the impossible; or they wanted us to make something out of them; or they're akin to deleted scenes on a DVD, so we have a glimpse of stuff they thought wouldn't work in the game. Anyone know, or wanna hazard a guess?

[RedHawke]

Originally posted by Achilles

The whole comparison to KotOR I is kinda weak too.

(Edited For Space)

But that's just my 2 cents

Make that 4 cents Achilles, because you are abosolutely right... even with the ending with the way it is, we all have no idea what is planned for KOTOR III and they have to have something to work with when starting that story at the end of this one.

 

Another point you all might want to take into consideration, from an RPG story and writing perspective, all the questions left unanswered at the end of TSL are things that will draw you in to KOTOR III, because we don't know what happened to the crew of the Ebon Hawk, who lived... who died... even what all actually transpired on Malachor.

 

This gives OE or whomever creates the story for KOTOR III a lot of leeway in wrapping up the story of Revan, The Exile, and the lone hero who is sent out by the Republic to discover what happened to them...

[RaV™]

I'd say for the exile and his companions to fall into a lovely black hole and get the story back to Revan!

[Achilles]

Originally posted by Darth_Krow

I'd say for the exile and his companions to fall into a lovely black hole and get the story back to Revan!

Wasn't every other dialog in the TSL about Revan?

 

I'd put money on KotOR III being some sort of "Quest for Revan" type thing ("duh" right? I know). Of course, due to the fact that it would be impossible to actually show him, he'd be dead. Good news is that you'll probably find and train his offspring (LS or DS depending on how you play).

[lukeiamyourdad]

There are many weird holes though. Beside the G0-T0 remote cutscene, there's also the one when Mandalore boards the Ravager. It looks like he wants to blow up the ship and the Republic Ship.

Yet it seems a bit incoherent that the matter is left there.

 

There's also the message from the Disciple to Carth which was a bit shady and I never got why he was sent after me or something.

 

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head but they aren't as obvious.

[Prime]

Originally posted by gonzzalez

If the game would have still been enjoyable then there would be nowhere near as much criticism as there is now, and to think the reason for this might be LA trying to push a christmas release.... well its infuriating quite frankly

Personally I think to say the game is not enjoyable is ridiculous. Even with it's flaws, it is still superior to the majority of games out there. It is still a good story that has interesting characters and a solid overall story arc.

 

Originally posted by nas77

Something I don't understand is why devs keep the material for parts that have been cut out in the game folder. Is it because they forgot to remove them; or they wanted to slyly show us LA were asking the impossible; or they wanted us to make something out of them; or they're akin to deleted scenes on a DVD, so we have a glimpse of stuff they thought wouldn't work in the game. Anyone know, or wanna hazard a guess?

This sort of thing happens all the time with all sorts of software. Frankly, I'd be surprised if there wasn't extra stuff included. Usually it happens because features or content was cut because it didn't fit with the overall plan or time and resources didn't permit their inclusion. Often there is no reason to take the time and effort to remove the content, because it has no affect on the final product . They don't really consider (or care) that a bunch of fanboys are going to route through the game files. 99% of players aren't going to do this. So to most it is transparent anyway. There is tons of stuff from KOTOR in there as well that isn't used.

 

Regardless, there is no big conspiracy here. In the end I suspect that both parties are to blame if people feel (which I don't) that it is an terrible product. Lucasarts would have specified the time and resources Obsidian had to get the game done in the beginning. If they didn't complete what they wanted on time, that is at least partially their own fault.

 

Again, this kind of thing happens in software development all the time.

[cosmic_ace]

I bought the KOTOR 2 official game guide and i found out the when you confront Atris after you met the Jedi masters on Dantooine, the guide says that she has openly embraced the dark side and has taken the moniker of Darth Traya. You can see in the screenshots that she is dressed in a black suit and has the name of Darth Traya in the "target Enemy Info". Has anyone checked this?