David Lynch

[JofaGuht]

oooo....one of my favorite topics.

 

What film of his are seeing today?

[El Virus]

Well, you'll have to wait for tomorrow to get a decent reply from me.

However, remember a long time ago when you told me that "Once Upon a Time in the West" was better than the Dollars Trilogy? Well, I was in the mood for a Western today, and somehow I was lucky enough to catch one at the Retro channel. I had some stuff to do, so I couldn't pay attention to the film, and even left for twenty minutes; unfortunately, it was not until the end that I realised it was Leone's movie. Fortunately, they will re-air it again tonight , and I'll try to record it.

By the way, for the parts that I've have seen, I like "Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo" best. Of course, I've learnt that you can't judge a movie unless you pay close attention to it...

 

Did you get watch Metropolis or Stalker?

[90SK]

Huh, I don't think I've seen any David Lynch movies. *adds to movie list* I recognize several of the titles, though. Looks like quite the high-class material. All the movies got great ratings on IMDB.

[JofaGuht]

By the way, for the parts that I've have seen, I like "Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo" best.

 

The two films are hard to compare because one is a big epic story and the other is a fun adventure. It really depends on the kind of person you are. I just like big epic stories better.

 

Sort of the same thing goes for the Alien movies. The first was a horror, the second was an action. It just depends on where or not you like horror or action better as a genre.

 

Did you get watch Metropolis or Stalker?

 

I'm putting Stalker on my Netflix queue, since I'm less aware of that one....and a bit of a personal quirk, but I always go for the one I'm least aware of first. Plus, if Metropolis gets another showing at the Tivoli, I'll feel pretty stupid if I rent it beforehand.

[El Virus]

I got my hands on Twin Peaks (Season 1), I'll watch it tonight.

[Necroman]

I got "Lost Highway" right here on my desk but I didn't have the time to watch it (I gotta go to school in 3 hours), and the guy that gave me this movie said something about "Twin Peaks", he said something like:"If you like Lost Highway, I'll give you Twin Peaks... I really want to get "Dune", I liked the old one more than the new ones. And I looking forward to seeing "The Elephant Man"

[El Virus]

All right, as I mentioned earlier, I bought "Twin Peaks" Season 1 on Sunday. Believe it or not, I have watched all of the 7 episodes (plus the Pilot, which I'm not sure if it revealed the killer or not). And what this tells you is that it is a pretty addictive programme (besides the fact that I have no life, of course)

Now Jofa, I must say It's a damn fine cup of coffee show. There is something dark and mysterious about it which makes it incredibly appealing. I am specially fond of the way Lynch and Frost took an apparently perfect girl like Laura (on a bigger scale, Twin Peaks itself), only to reveal the many flaws she posses as the story moves on.

 

Any complaints?:

-The humor; it's not that I do not like it, it is neccessary to balance the tension created by the situation. However, I've always had something about getting laughter and seriousness together. But after ep. 2 (or was it 3?, anyway, the one about Cooper's dream) I realised that I could certainly cope with it.

-And, ehm...the green outline of the letters at the beginning credits (I can be quite picky sometimes).

 

Mate, thanks for introducing me to the show. If you want to discuss it, let's bring it on.

 

------------

 

About IMDB, I can't take a site which has got (not one, but two!) "Star Wars" movies on top of their Science Fiction list. Besides, letting any idiot rate a movie is just wrong...

[Necroman]

Dude, you really liked that movie.

[JofaGuht]

All right, as I mentioned earlier, I bought "Twin Peaks" Season 1 on Sunday. Believe it or not, I have watched all of the 7 episodes (plus the Pilot, which I'm not sure if it revealed the killer or not). And what this tells you is that it is a pretty addictive programme (besides the fact that I have no life, of course)

 

Hell yeah it is. I knew it would get to you because of the fact it's such a full and created world. The pilot didn't reveal the killer since I think I'm not sure whether or not they knew who the killer was when they wrote that pilot (well Lynch probably did, but he probably didn't tell Frost because Lynch does stuff like that). The second season finally reveals it but honestly, know that you've gotten to know the characters and the feel of the world its time to watch the film that is its prequel.

 

-The humor; it's not that I do not like it, it is neccessary to balance the tension created by the situation. However, I've always had something about getting laughter and seriousness together. But after ep. 2 (or was it 3?, anyway, the one about Cooper's dream) I realised that I could certainly cope with it.

 

I think the very strong lead does great to balance it. He's such a great character. Plus: "this must be where pies go when they die.....". Point made.

 

If it does bother you, that's why you've got to check out that amazing film I keep talking about. The humor that you find in the show is present for the first half an hour, then it completely disappears and enters dread. See that film.

 

About IMDB, I can't take a site which has got (not one, but two!) "Star Wars" movies on top of their Science Fiction list. Besides, letting any idiot rate a movie is just wrong...

 

I think the stupidity of it is that Star Wars is not in the least bit Science Fiction, but Fantasy.

[El Virus]

Hell yeah it is. I knew it would get to you because of the fact it's such a full and created world. The pilot didn't reveal the killer since I think I'm not sure whether or not they knew who the killer was when they wrote that pilot (well Lynch probably did, but he probably didn't tell Frost because Lynch does stuff like that). The second season finally reveals it but honestly, know that you've gotten to know the characters and the feel of the world its time to watch the film that is its prequel.

 

I actually heard, that they released a pilot which included a new part with details of who the killer was, for Europe. And when the DVD series was released, they put this new edition as the pilot. Worst, I decided to watch the Director's Cut, with even more details.

 

 

Could the killer be Bob, a malignant spirit or something?

 

 

I enjoy the 50s feel it has, despite being set in the nineties.

 

See that film

Two problems stand in my way: there is no chance of me being able to get the movie (unless I try to get it from the United States), and the Second Season is yet to be released (Ah, that rings a bell. Perhaps when you ask me to sign an online petition...).

 

And, I agree, Cooper is a great character (just a bit eccentric).

 

I think the stupidity of it is that Star Wars is not in the least bit Science Fiction, but Fantasy.

I always thought that as well. But, most people associate Science Fiction with spaceships and Fantasy with wizards; when actually the difference is much deeper. But, IMDB is ranked by the average Joe, and you just can't expect much from him.

 

Finally, I didn't reply earlier, because it didn't show there was a new message in the thread. Oh, and I got Eraserhead, planning on watching it tonight.

[JofaGuht]

I actually heard, that they released a pilot which included a new part with details of who the killer was, for Europe. And when the DVD series was released, they put this new edition as the pilot. Worst, I decided to watch the Director's Cut, with even more details.

 

The pilot with the alternate ending is what they call the "mind warp" ending that has a few more details and basically a lot of the things that were later covered in the dream sequence in 1x03.

 

I don't want to say yes or no to your theory about Bob. All I can say, very truthfully, is that it's a little bit more complicated than that.

 

Perhaps what you're looking for isn't released yet (season 2 aint out here either, I know because I've only seen the first seven episodes of it on laser disc. Ironic, I call myself a die-hard fan of this show and I haven't been able to see all the episodes). But stillI wouldn't go out and read the spoilers yet. It's worth the wait to see the twists and the answers to the mystery played out in Lynch's vision.

[El Virus]

I don't want to say yes or no to your theory about Bob. All I can say, very truthfully, is that it's a little bit more complicated than that.

Great, then I haven't spoiled it all.

 

You know, I heard that the Season 2 is not the same to the first one, as Lynch was pressured by the network to reveal the killer, it somewhat drifted away from its original course and so on. According to my mother (who to my surprise watched the show when it was aired back in the 90s) it was still pretty good.

Wouldn't watching "Fire Walk With Me" (If I, for some strange reason, manage to get it) be a huge spoiler?

 

This is probably one of the few TV shows which I actually found interesting (Cowboy Bebop still tops my list; you should watch it one day, I'm sure you'd like it).

[JofaGuht]

You know, I heard that the Season 2 is not the same to the first one, as Lynch was pressured by the network to reveal the killer, it somewhat drifted away from its original course and so on. According to my mother (who to my surprise watched the show when it was aired back in the 90s) it was still pretty good.

I've only seen the first seven of the second season, and they are just as good as the first season, if not better. But it's supposedly after that when it goes downhill a tad. The main ABC intervention that wound up changing things is changing Cooper from the brilliant, intuitive and eccentric detective into a romantic hero. I haven't watched far enough to see that metamorphasis, but supposedly it upset Lynch enough to create a series finale that "punished" that change.

 

They did push the revelation of the killer, but I supported that move. Lynch didn't want to reveal the killer and just have the concept of find Palmer's killer be a MacGuffin for exploring the world and the characters of Twin Peaks. But Laura Palmer's story was the thing I was most interested in to begin with.

 

Wouldn't watching "Fire Walk With Me" (If I, for some strange reason, manage to get it) be a huge spoiler?

 

No, it's the other way around. Watching the second season would be a huge spoiler for the movie, silly!

 

I think that's how it fits. You watch the first season to grasp the world and fall in love with the characters, while still not knowing who Palmer's killer is. Perfect mindset for the perfect film, the film being the reason I set out my friends to watch the show in the first place.

 

This is probably one of the few TV shows which I actually found interesting

 

I have two, simple little words for you: Joss Whedon. Watch Buffy, the Vampire Slayer and/or Angel and discover that there are some EXTREMELY brilliant shows out there.

[El Virus]

That's what I meant, it went downhill after the (rather forced) discovery of the murderer.

But Laura Palmer's story was the thing I was most interested in to begin with.

Same 'ere, I think the stories of the rest of the characters are a good satire to the average cheap soup opera, but it might get too cheese sometimes (for the sake of irony, I guess).

 

No, it's the other way around. Watching the second season would be a huge spoiler for the movie, silly!

Tomorrow I'll go to my reliable movie club and try to get (I mean, buy) "FWwM". Is the movie deep, or somewhat as dark as I imagine it to be?

 

[i'm going to post twice, because the second one has nothing to do with Twin Peaks, but with television in general]

[El Virus]

I have two, simple little words for you: Joss Whedon. Watch Buffy, the Vampire Slayer and/or Angel and discover that there are some EXTREMELY brilliant shows out there.

 

Okay where can I begin. Television or TV, leaves a lot to wish for nowadays, for it's mostly full of Junk. You turn on that "goddam obnoxious box" on a random channel; and all you'll see is an amazing amount of sex, violence, blond blue-eyed teenagers with perfect bodies, the cult like treatment of drugs, and other sort of unrealistic things made for the public by greedy producers.

I think that there are two problems with the teevy to-day, and those are, political-correctness and ratings; since the world of television isn't as the one of cinematography in which you can actually make a decent independant film, you cannot put a show without the approval of a big studio. The first, is somehow understandable, as the corporate big-fishes will not risk being attacked by officials of the government (you can't even crticize religion, for crying out loud), so for a show to succeed it must support the ideas of the government or at least, not criticize the president (there are exceptions to this rule; but I'm talking about junk-shows in general). The second clause, is more serious; the simple idea of a great, interesting artisticall, and deep show being cancelled because the pop-culturized population and the media don't find it appealing is stupid; but, I guess it is the way it goes.

Oh, and public channels are even worse in my country. And, don't get me started on the bias of the news broadcasts either (ergo CNN, and it's subjective news).

Take into account, that I simply got sick of shows lately, and haven't watched television on the past months (I watch a documentary or two every now and then; and this programme called "CQC" every Thursday, but that is enough for me).

Quality television is practically extinct, unfortunately, and it is being overtaken by lousy sit-coms (I, however still watch the re-runs of "Seinfeld" and I think it was very good, despite many things), other shows like "Lost" (Ehm, I just think it is overrated), or even worse, Reality (HA) Shows.

 

As for "Angel", there wasa time when I got hooked on it and watched about a whole season (or a lot of episodes); but it eventually got too weird, and I could keep up with it. "Buffy", well, fantasy is a genre I never liked, and I never cared to watch it; there was this bloke at my school though, who was a huge fan of it.

 

I hope this doesn't seem as a complaint against modern culture, but (in spite of not turning out the way I wanted it to) it is what I believe. I hope it is well received (no rhyme intended).

 

----------------------

 

Oh, and Eraserhead: two thumbs up from me; I'll comment on my views tomorrow.

[El Virus]

Okay, I have more time to-day.

I watched Eraserhead two nigths ago, and it was an incredible experience. I find the photography of the film to be outstanding (thanks to the Black & White, mainly; but Lynch does a gret job creating ambients), that depressive and frustrating aura around that place where Henry lives is excellent. I find the symbolism to be great as well, but I'll need to watch it a second time, as it was quite a confusing and nightmare-like movie. I have a lot to say, but I don't want to just go on all at once.

 

How's Stalker going?

 

Er, if there is a problem with the three-post in a row thingy, tell me; I can merge the above two.

[Shuz]

I have only seen Mulholland Drive. It was certainly very weird and required multiple viewings for me to begin to understand it. But I still needed to read an explanation to fully understand the movie. Once I knew what was going on it was much more enjoyable, a bit like contemporay art really.

[JofaGuht]

Sorry it took so long to reply. The server's been down,

 

Tomorrow I'll go to my reliable movie club and try to get (I mean, buy) "FWwM". Is the movie deep, or somewhat as dark as I imagine it to be?

Hardcore Lynch fans always find one movie out of the bunch they like a lot better than his others, and then they always have a handful they don't like. His films are very subjective. Fire Walk with Me had a giant emotional impact on me, just a movie that took about a month to get out of my head, but it may not have the same effect on you because it really is so subjective.

 

Quality television is practically extinct

I agree with everything you've said (good to know I have an ally against Lost ). Networks don't like to take risks anymore, and I blame those 30-second or less stories they stick between the acts of your shows with their loud noises and bright flashing lights as the cause of the high rate of ADD in this world.

 

But I still feel like I need to do something to make sure quality in television doesn't die, because it's such a writer's medium. A lot of the best stories in the world can't be told in two hours or less. I can't let let such a fine way of storytelling be murdered by a bunch of Studio Executive Idiots.

 

As for "Angel", there wasa time when I got hooked on it and watched about a whole season (or a lot of episodes); but it eventually got too weird, and I couldn't keep up with it.

It definitely has a huge mythology behind it that can leave you lost if you're not up to speed. It sounds like you might've been watching the fourth season, which had a cliffhanger every episode. It was a good season, but very taxing and hard to get through.

 

"Buffy", well, fantasy is a genre I never liked, and I never cared to watch it; there was this bloke at my school though, who was a huge fan of it.

 

Since the big problem with television is the lack of risks it takes, it's why Joss Whedon shows are such a big deal with me. They seem to take nothing but risks. In Buffy, there was an entire episode that took place inside of a dream; there was another episode that had over thirty minutes without a line of dialogue. In the fifth season they added a character that never existed, but memories of the other characters were recreated by monks to believe it so. This is stuff that other television doesn't do.

 

Of course I personally like Angel a lot better than Buffy. Although they are both equally well-written shows, Buffy explores the emotional side of life while Angel explores the philosophical. And let's just say I'm much more into the philosophical.

 

Though you may want to try out Whedon's short-lived speculative fiction series called Firefly, which takes place five-hundred years in the future where the Earth superpower learned to terraform other planets and moons to be habitable, and they drop off the lower classes off at these planets with maybe food and blankets to try to survive. What you get is a mix between sci-fi and western that works really well.

[El Virus]

Fire Walk with Me had a giant emotional impact on me, just a movie that took about a month to get out of my head, but it may not have the same effect on you because it really is so subjective.

Oh, tell me about movies' emotional impact on a person, I've been influenced by a lot of cinematographical masterpieces.

I haven't been able to attain the film yet, but I'll give it another try the following week.

 

But I still feel like I need to do something to make sure quality in television doesn't die, because it's such a writer's medium. A lot of the best stories in the world can't be told in two hours or less. I can't let let such a fine way of storytelling be murdered by a bunch of Studio Executive Idiots.

 

True. But that's why the great resource of the Miniseries was invented. I really like some of this short shows. In here we have a channel called Europa/Europa which basically presents any non-American movie (they'll show "Odishon" in two weeks ) ; and they recently aired a European miniseries based on the seven sins, certainly worth it.

 

Though you may want to try out Whedon's short-lived speculative fiction series called Firefly, which takes place five-hundred years in the future where the Earth superpower learned to terraform other planets and moons to be habitable, and they drop off the lower classes off at these planets with maybe food and blankets to try to survive. What you get is a mix between sci-fi and western that works really well.

 

I heard about Firefly, I liked the concept, but I'm not a huge fan of "Special-effects" abundant shows (the reason why I didn't watch it, was because I lost the first episodes out of imbecility, and they cancelled it in a couple of months). But Westerns and Science Fiction are great, and they can't go wrong if managed correctly.

[JofaGuht]

True. But that's why the great resource of the Miniseries was invented.

 

It's not just the stories though. It's the characters. The great thing about television series is that if enough happens, a character in year 3 will give little resemblence to the same character in year 1.

 

(they'll show "Odishon" in two weeks )

 

ooOoh. IFC is the closest channel we have to that, but they don't show Odishon. If you're into Miike, you should check out "Gozu".

 

I liked the concept, but I'm not a huge fan of "Special-effects" abundant shows

 

I know what you mean. But to praise Whedon as god in one more instance, the writing is always much more important on his shows than his visuals. It is one of the many shows that Fox destroyed, but it's got a huge following and I wouldn't be surprised if you were easily able to get your hands on the (episodes in intentional order) DVD.

 

You into Star Trek at all? I'm certainly not a Trekkie by any means, but I'll watch syndacated reruns of Next Generation if on. It's definitely more science fiction than fantasy, without a doubt.

[Charie]

El Virus:

How's Stalker going?

 

Er.. sorry, what kind of Stalker, exactly?

[El Virus]

It's not just the stories though. It's the characters. The great thing about television series is that if enough happens, a character in year 3 will give little resemblence to the same character in year 1.

You got me there. There is more character evolution in a television series, but I still believe that most TV shows are junk.

ooOoh. IFC is the closest channel we have to that, but they don't show Odishon. If you're into Miike, you should check out "Gozu".

I'm still in the process of getting FWwM, but I'll give Miike a try on my vacations.

I know what you mean. But to praise Whedon as god in one more instance, the writing is always much more important on his shows than his visuals. It is one of the many shows that Fox destroyed, but it's got a huge following and I wouldn't be surprised if you were easily able to get your hands on the (episodes in intentional order) DVD.

 

You into Star Trek at all? I'm certainly not a Trekkie by any means, but I'll watch syndacated reruns of Next Generation if on. It's definitely more science fiction than fantasy, without a doubt.

I think Firefly is avalaible, did it last for long, or was it cancelled right away?

 

I have never seen Star Trek, the story didn't appeal to me, and the retro channel stopped airing it. But, I should have given it a try, I guess I was turned off by the cult of the show.

There was a TV program I really liked, I think, but I cannot remember which one was .

 

Er.. sorry, what kind of Stalker, exactly?

Actually, Stalker is a 1979 movie by a Russian director called Andrei Tarkovsky. It is an excellent film, but it might seem slow or boring to the amateur film-viewer. Since Jofa and I are obsessed with cinematography, I thought I might recommend the film, so as to discuss it later with him. I think that in Russian, the title of the film lacked the obscure meaning.

[Charie]

El Virus

That Stalker? Oh I ADORE that one. I just wasn't sure there aren't other movies with the same title.

What's that 'obscure meaning' you mentioned? I guess I still don't get it, 'cause for me a stalker is a stalker, a profession. Like firemen not causing fires, stalkers are not stalking:). Well, except for hunting for those supernatural objects in the Zone.

So do I miss something?

 

Mmmmm, it's good to remember good thins.

[El Virus]

El Virus

That Stalker? Oh I ADORE that one. I just wasn't sure there aren't other movies with the same title.

What's that 'obscure meaning' you mentioned? I guess I still don't get it, 'cause for me a stalker is a stalker, a profession. Like firemen not causing fires, stalkers are not stalking:). Well, except for hunting for those supernatural objects in the Zone.

So do I miss something?

 

Mmmmm, it's good to remember good thins.

 

Oh, then forgive me for the explanation .

 

It's great to know that you watched it. It is certainly a nearly perfect film, very deep and meditative.

 

The word 'Stalker' in English, the word also referrs to a continued harassment, associated with obsessions and crime. But, as you mentioned, the movie is about the profession. In my country, those who have seen it call it "La Zona" ("The Zone"), so we didn't have that problem.

[JofaGuht]

Keep on the quiet, Charie. I haven't seen the film yet.

 

I think Firefly is avalaible, did it last for long, or was it cancelled right away?

It was cancelled after half a season. But on DVD word of mouth was able to get it to a huge cult status. Whedon eventually made a movie that resolved the series called "Serenity".

 

I have never seen Star Trek, the story didn't appeal to me, and the retro channel stopped airing it. But, I should have given it a try, I guess I was turned off by the cult of the show.

Oldschool Star Trek wasn't that good but Next Generation was pretty strong. Now, that being said, I'm not recommending the show, I was just wondering if you're into it. I can't get into shows that don't have arcs and stories longer than an episode, and Star Trek was always pure standalone. Yet some of the standalone stories were really strong science fiction. It's fun to watch when on, but I wouldn't go out and try to find the DVDs.