Views on Jedi

[ch0g0nda]

Ugh, yes, just because a person is entitled to their opinion doesn't mean that whatever they think is right.

 

Good and evil aren't matter's of opinion when you're talking about extremes. There are criteria to guide you with such things. We can't start making up the definitions of words... What the Sith do, evil. The Jedi, good.

 

Or I'll take some liberties and make up words; the Sith, drexdelzz! The Jedi, molinvians.

 

IMO that's what they are, drexdelzz's and molinvians!!1

[Pabby]

I believe in the old jedi code, through emotion comes irrationality, and that leads to anger and hatred and such, with attatchment comes the anger at the possibility of losing that which you are attatched to.

 

 

 

"You must train yourself to let go of that which you fear to lose"

[playloud]

I believe in the old jedi code, through emotion comes irrationality, and that leads to anger and hatred and such, with attatchment comes the anger at the possibility of losing that which you are attatched to.

 

 

 

"You must train yourself to let go of that which you fear to lose"

"I don't see points on your ears boy, but you sound like a Vulcan" - Dr. McCoy

[Prime]

Remember, the Jedi at the end of the OR had the rules they did because of their past experiences, not just because of blind idiologies. The Post-ROTJ Jedi have good examples of what bad things happen when they let themselves do whatever they want.

[JediMaster12]

Yeah look at Alema in the Dark Nest Trilogy.

Still in terms of good and evil, you can define something evil like killing is bad. If you look at it philosophically, you could say that the JEdi are evil for killing. What defines the limit/morality?

[Revan Skywalker]

JediMaster12, you are right in my point of view. The Jedi are the guardians of what they tthhiinnkk is peace and justice. Only the New Republic and Galactic Alliance Jedi know this, though Bindo came close. It's all POV, people.

[shinyjedi]

Okay, I read most of the first two pages and took the thread up again after the jump, so I might have missed somebody making my point. On the other hand, it's still my point, and that's the point of the thread, right? So here's my take on the jedi:

 

First off, I think the system cycles, like climate change. KOTOR and TSL take place at the very end of a cycle, when the jedi and sith are at their farthest extremes (like the late stages of something being run through a centerfuge) The sith use the power of emotion like a crutch and the jedi fear it like a plague. Over time, the codes have morphed to become what we see in the academies. At this point in the cycle, the orders collapse.

At the end of TSL (and ep VI) the jedi order is reborn, resurrected by those who realize that hiding from temptation is no defense whatsoever when it eventually ambushes you. To be able to control emotion rather than be controlled by it takes practice and experience; preferably while being guided and protected by somebody stronger and more experienced, and who cares about you.

The order grows, guided by these powerful individuals (more powerful because they neither fear nor allow themselves to be conquered by emotion)

Over time, jedi fail and fall. It's inevitable. Not every practitioner can handle power correctly, and there are those who initially seem stronger than they are. Not all jedi fall, of course, but enough do. As more and more Jedi fall over time, those jedi remaining, and perhaps the aging jedi who now rule, become nervous ("them young whippersnappers cain't take it like we could when we was young! We'll have to keep them on a tighter leash, since they's so weak!") and the long slow tumble into the centerfuge begins again.

 

In the end, my take on jedi depends on what era the jedi exist in.

The order in the time of the Mandalorian wars was so caught up in their power and the consequences of it, that they had become paralysed. They'd have sat and watched the galaxy ripped to shreds rather than risk the butterfly effect. Kreia had that one pretty bad too. At some point, worrying about far-flung repercussions becomes obsession, and is worse than ignoring consequences entirely. For these characters, I have little but contempt (yeah, Vrook, I'm talking to you! You weasel! )

 

Although it hasn't really been shown, I believe that the jedi of the post TSL era (assuming LS play) would have been stronger and more balanced, and truer to the spirit of what the jedi were meant to be; guardians of justice and right. Likewise those jedi after Ep VI--as opposed to the TAs who let the empire be born out of the republic rather than learn to deal with temptation instead of hiding from it. (Although Yoda might have figured things out just before he transcended)

[Prime]

Yeah look at Alema in the Dark Nest Trilogy.

Still in terms of good and evil, you can define something evil like killing is bad. If you look at it philosophically, you could say that the JEdi are evil for killing. What defines the limit/morality?

The Jedi are not creatures of morality, and do not define their actions as such one way or the other.

[Revan Skywalker]

The Jedi do what they think is right, though it is not always right. The Sith, well, they wwwwwaaaaaannnnnnnnttttt to do bad stuff.

[DarthDeceptus]

The Jedi do what they think is right, though it is not always right. The Sith, well, they wwwwwaaaaaannnnnnnnttttt to do bad stuff.

 

Well, both do stuff that is good for themself

[Revan Skywalker]

Correct.

[Steve-O Kreesh]

I could go on about my own opinion about the Jedi, but I've said my peace on the other pages of this thread.

 

No use in beating a dead horse!

 

But if others want to debate this topic, I'll keep my eye on this thread.

[JediMaster12]

As well as I. What did I start here?

[xides]

I find that the Jedi are much to stict with there view of the force but the sith are far to open with it. There needs to be a line drawn. Were that line is draw is fully the choice of the person. People like Jolee Bindo, Kyle Katarn or Jacen Solo would tap into the "Dark side" to help people. Others like Anakin Skywalker orginaly excepted the dark side to help his wife but then he turned right around and began slaughtering the jedi and anyone else that stood in his way. If you ask me the jedi of prequal era could have benifited greatly if they had a "Grey Jedi".

[JediMaster12]

Where would you draw the line though?

[Revan Skywalker]

I don't know about everyone else, but I would draw the line between good and evil. Period, dot. Good=save people from towering building. Evil= Watch people and laugh. Grey= laugh and pull them away from harm. You see, the Dark Side of the Force is evil, but the powers aren't. It's how you use the power of the Force. For instance, let's say you use a "light side" power to heal a wounded Sith while another is about to kill a helpless baby and woman. Or, let's say you use a "dark side" power to shoot lighting out of your hand (though Luke can make his own kind of good lightning) and overload a power conuit, therefor making a door break but causing no harm to living sentients. See what I mean?

[xides]

I would draw the line closer to the Jedi theory because i respect what they are doing, i just find that they are to strict in there beliefs.

[Arátoeldar]

Okay, I read most of the first two pages and took the thread up again after the jump, so I might have missed somebody making my point. On the other hand, it's still my point, and that's the point of the thread, right? So here's my take on the jedi:

 

First off, I think the system cycles, like climate change. KOTOR and TSL take place at the very end of a cycle, when the jedi and sith are at their farthest extremes (like the late stages of something being run through a centerfuge) The sith use the power of emotion like a crutch and the jedi fear it like a plague. Over time, the codes have morphed to become what we see in the academies. At this point in the cycle, the orders collapse.

At the end of TSL (and ep VI) the jedi order is reborn, resurrected by those who realize that hiding from temptation is no defense whatsoever when it eventually ambushes you. To be able to control emotion rather than be controlled by it takes practice and experience; preferably while being guided and protected by somebody stronger and more experienced, and who cares about you.

The order grows, guided by these powerful individuals (more powerful because they neither fear nor allow themselves to be conquered by emotion)

Over time, jedi fail and fall. It's inevitable. Not every practitioner can handle power correctly, and there are those who initially seem stronger than they are. Not all jedi fall, of course, but enough do. As more and more Jedi fall over time, those jedi remaining, and perhaps the aging jedi who now rule, become nervous ("them young whippersnappers cain't take it like we could when we was young! We'll have to keep them on a tighter leash, since they's so weak!") and the long slow tumble into the centerfuge begins again.

 

In the end, my take on jedi depends on what era the jedi exist in.

The order in the time of the Mandalorian wars was so caught up in their power and the consequences of it, that they had become paralysed. They'd have sat and watched the galaxy ripped to shreds rather than risk the butterfly effect. Kreia had that one pretty bad too. At some point, worrying about far-flung repercussions becomes obsession, and is worse than ignoring consequences entirely. For these characters, I have little but contempt (yeah, Vrook, I'm talking to you! You weasel! )

 

Although it hasn't really been shown, I believe that the jedi of the post TSL era (assuming LS play) would have been stronger and more balanced, and truer to the spirit of what the jedi were meant to be; guardians of justice and right. Likewise those jedi after Ep VI--as opposed to the TAs who let the empire be born out of the republic rather than learn to deal with temptation instead of hiding from it. (Although Yoda might have figured things out just before he transcended)

 

Excellent thread Ladies and Gentlemen.

 

I would say long with shinyjedi come closest to my thoughts on the Jedi. I hated Vrook from the get go soly because the arragont ass Ed Asner playing his voice.

[Lord Fraybin]

I'm curious - if Anakin was 'The Choosen One' and was supposed to bring balance to the force, yet the Jedi Masters could not detect the Sith presence, and even displayed surprise that a Sith might even exist, then how exactly did they expect this balance to arrive???

 

Balance means all sides are equal. Does it not?

If they were ignorant of the SITHs presence, yet thought Anakin was supposed to bring balance, what exactly did they think that meant????

 

The complete and utter erradication of the DarkSide of the force is NOT balance.

You cannot have Day without Night.

 

So - while I fully support the Jedi code, I'd have to say that particular crop of Jedi Masters were a bit lacking in deductive reason.

[JediMaster12]

Their arrogance blinds them and they probably never saw it coming. You see it throughout the movies if you watch their expressions and not just listen to the dialogue.

[Lord Fraybin]

Their arrogance blinds them and they probably never saw it coming. You see it throughout the movies if you watch their expressions and not just listen to the dialogue.

 

8-)

 

You sure that wasn't George's poor directing abilities??

 

I mean - we got Star Wars: Awesome, ground breaking.

 

Empire Strikes Back - darker, better, more entertaining....

 

Then?? Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks??

 

Honest to God - after watching The Empire Strikes Back, NOBODY would have guessed George was planning on a visit to Super Cheese Ave.

[Point Man]

Balance means all sides are equal. Does it not? (snip)The complete and utter erradication of the DarkSide of the force is NOT balance.

You cannot have Day without Night.

This is a common error people make when they think of scientific balance instead of spiritual balance. Bringing balance to The Force means restoring peace and calm, not making good and evil equal.

[Dark Lord Maul]

The jedi like the sith are both a means of existance for each other without jedi there can be no sith and vise versor. so if you ask me the jedi fuel the hatred of the sith through there existance, and they fear the sith for tapping into a side of the force that they could never understand. in conclussion the jedi and sith are selfish ego maniacs.

[Prime]

I'm curious - if Anakin was 'The Choosen One' and was supposed to bring balance to the force, yet the Jedi Masters could not detect the Sith presence, and even displayed surprise that a Sith might even exist, then how exactly did they expect this balance to arrive???

But they did detect the shadow or shroud of the dark side, even if they did not know it's source. Thus, they knew that the Force was out of balance.

 

Balance means all sides are equal. Does it not?

No, it does not.

 

It means return the Force to its natural, stable (i.e. balanced) state, which is not corrupted by the users of dark side.

 

If they were ignorant of the SITHs presence, yet thought Anakin was supposed to bring balance, what exactly did they think that meant????

They knew that Anakin was going to distroy the Sith, thus destroy the users of the dark side, thus bring the Force back to its stable, balanced state.

 

The complete and utter erradication of the DarkSide of the force is NOT balance.

Actually, that is exactly what balance is.

 

You cannot have Day without Night.

The Force is not a two sided coin. The dark side is the corruption, damaging, harming of the natural Force. What you are saying is that you cannot have a growing tree without trying to hack it down.

 

So - while I fully support the Jedi code, I'd have to say that particular crop of Jedi Masters were a bit lacking in deductive reason.

It seems you are lacking deductive reasoning. Why would the Jedi attempt to bring the balance to the Force if that meant an equal amount of "light and dark"? Since they are by far the stronger (by number of beings, total power, or whatever measure), that would imply that they would have to destroy themselves in order to achieve that balance. And the prophecy would then make no sense, since it says the Chosen One would destroy the Sith. How can the destruction of the Sith, thus the dark side, bring the Force into balance if what you are saying is true?

 

The jedi like the sith are both a means of existance for each other without jedi there can be no sith and vise versor.

Uh, the Jedi existed millenia before the Sith did, and Luke seems to be "existing" just fine at the end of ROTJ after Vader and Palpatine were destroyed...

[mivoci1]

Jedi and Sith are to the galaxy the same because Sith were once Jedi but Jedi code and arrogance was the reason jedi became dark jedi

 

mivoci1, please note the date on the last post before posting. I have deleted several of your thread ressurection posts today, no more ok. Posting in a thread more than a couple weeks old since the last post is thread ressurection and is considered 'bumping' and unless you have something significant to add to the topic we ask that you refrain from posting in them. Thanks. -RH