Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Hey G--I just had a brain ouch. Check it out, and let me know what's wrong with the idea... Picture, if you will, a crippled jet airliner circling an airport. Say the landing gear won't come down, the hydraulics are shot, whatever. The end result is a pressurized tin can full of terrified human beings whose survival depends on the pilot's ability to land it safely under difficult conditions. To make that pilot's chances almost zero, there is the fact that his airplane has enormous tanks partially full of jet fuel--what he's trying to land is essentially a giant gas bomb! So what if there were a way to purge those fuel tanks? Just dump out all the gas with a blowout system that uses the jet engines to funnel pressurized air, completely clear them suckers just like blowing your nose. Of course, the plane would need a limited amount of fuel while landing to maintain airspeed. The outer portion of the wingtip could house enough fuel for a landing or two (if additional attempts are necessary) while still keeping it away from the passenger's cabin. The center tanks, and most of the wing...unnecessary. Get rid of it, I say! Let the engines be a ramscoop in time of need... <font color=red>Free Tibet!</font> 'Vive la resistance!' ------------------ 'What's up is clearly defined as the opposite of what is down, in this case being the strongest source of local gravity...failing that, in space, what's up is opposite the direction of accelerative G-force--or what I'm targeting with these laser cannon. Die, b*tch!' --Official forum space terrorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Ram Jets tend not to work all that well at low speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 *Pttttthhht!!!* No wonder you call it a "brain ouch." ------------------ Love people. Use things. Not vice versa. XWA's Resident Finance Manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 The only thing I can think of is installing the auto-lander from an F-18 or F-22 in all airliners. That system's designed to put a plane down safely regardless of what has happened to the poor plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Most times a Airliner has mutli-ple redundent systems so that you wont need a controled crash. Thankfully there are thousands of Airports that are availbe to airliners. Fuel venting is a standerd practice. Also, if given enuf warning an AIrport emegancy crew can fill the runways with flame-retaredent foam, to ease the chance of fuel sparking and setting off the tanks. I have been in a plane crash (My dad's private plane) the fuel lines froze and we were forced to land in a farmers field. Would have done jsut fine if we hadn't hit a snowbank and flipped the plane. Thankfully no one got hurt, cept my dad who got a bloody nose, and 10 years later he bought another plane and was flying again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 ok sorry if this upsets one this isnt my true opinion im being sarcastic about the general american capatilist view ok plane crashes a few 100 people die about 500 people got to funerals and get upset the company pays for this no problems - if they want your idea they have to fork out to have all there planes retorfitted just to save them about $1 million dollars sometime in the future when it would cost them hunderds of thousands of dollars to do what you suggest ------------------ Official Forum Newbian jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 That made NO SENSE AT ALL. I swear, I read it three times and couldn't even understand what you were being sarcastic about. Periods and punctuation would help a lot, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 what the heck was that jabba, among other things a crash costs an airline more than retrofitting its planes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 um, Jabba read a grammar book. ------------------ "Dulce bellum inexpertis." (Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb [This message has been edited by Admiral (edited May 15, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 plus they wouldn't want zoom's Idea, Jettisoning fuel already is used, planes never land with a full load if it can be avoided, the wings keep the aircraft fom rolling unless their is more force than they can take, if a bird hit a ramjet its more likely the plane will go down than with a turbo fan as most are currently setup, and planes routinuely land successfuly with no landing gear, the one with the high death counts are the ones the depressurise or explode in mid-air. [This message has been edited by Rogue 9 (edited May 15, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sceltor Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Here's a fun scenario: A plane is circling its airport. One of its passengers is Jabba. It is one person too heavy to land safely, and it has a couple spare bombs set to detonate on impact. So they take the bombs, strap them to Jabba, go to a remote location, drop him out and watch him fall. Upon impact, everyone oohs and aaahs and the plane then proceeds to safely land at the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 But what about the rolling, flaming ball of wreckage skipping down the runway scene we've all seen on the news? Vented or not, there are clearly some fumes left in the tank; that is not the passengers' hair catching on fire. My idea is to use the engines as a ramscoop and just blast them tanks clear. Kinda like using the gas in the barrel of an automatic gun to load the next round. The energy is there anyway. I've read Jabba's post, and it seems likely to me that he's commenting on the likelihood of the airline corporations in a capitalist country retrofitting all their airplanes for safety's sake. I agree with him! Those industrial fatcat pig-f**kers ain't letting one dime slip through their greasy fingers if they can help it. The only way an idea like mine would be realistically implemented would be in future aircraft design...which is why I wanted G-Dog's opinion on the idea in the first place... Mr. airplane guy, where are ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 one important fact of a capitalist society, IF YOU WANT CHANGE IMPLEMENT IT YOURSELF, companies can't caiter to everyone, airlines can't afford new planes every year, if you want better planes stop complaining about long lines, small seats, and high prices. thank you and have a profitable day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Admiral: um, Jabba read a grammer book. Um, Admiral, read a SPELLING book Seriously, it always cracks me up when people complain about someone's grammar, but spell grammar incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 I didn't spell it wrong, look again. (altough I'm the worst speller I know.) ------------------ "Dulce bellum inexpertis." (Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit: But what about the rolling, flaming ball of wreckage skipping down the runway scene we've all seen on the news? Vented or not, there are clearly some fumes left in the tank; that is not the passengers' hair catching on fire. THAT guy is a radio controlled test plane. they were testing a fuel bladder thingy and built a few to smash into the ground. it made for spectacular stock footage and little else. you should see the clip of the one that's on the approach, gets about 100 off the ground, and just rolls onto it's back and hits the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Uhm, I'm thinking about a specific tragedy in the last few years or so, Nootle, but I forget when and where. The plane broke up on the runway, and as I recall it's the first commercial airline crash caught on film... I do recall the testing with the additive that was supposed to gel the fuel in the tank, that didn't work. Different stuff. As for ramscoops not working well at low speed, what about at high speed? Say, prior to beginning an emergency descent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold leader Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit: Hey Picture, if you will, a crippled jet airliner circling an airport there is the fact that his airplane has enormous tanks partially full of jet fuel--what he's trying to land is essentially a giant gas bomb! So what if there were a way to purge those fuel tanks? If it's circling an airport, why not circle till you're (almost) out of fuel? And like R9 said, planes never land with full load, they've usually used most of their fuel at the end of their trip. To descend from a altitude of 10km (cruising altitude) takes quite some time, so a blowout isn't really necessary. In fact, most accidents happen during landing and take-off. Using such a system and spraying fuel all over the airport means more danger than keeping it in the wings. BTW, the aircraft's hull should be fire resistant for at least 3 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 i am also familar with the footage you are thinking of Zoom. the one they USE the most though was shot from the same angle and looks pretty much the same. they use the radio controlled fake crash footage because they don't want to use footage of an ACTUAL plane crash because it's kinda morbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit: As for ramscoops not working well at low speed, what about at high speed? Say, prior to beginning an emergency descent? Ram Scoops do nothing for Jets unless you happen to be on the NCC-1701 D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNNER Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 I have no idea Zoomdog. All I know is I cut the wings and that the wings do hold all the fuel. And that the fuel is dumped in an emergency landing is being made, or any landing for that matter if they have to much fuel. I think most wings are still "wet" but I have heard of bladders being tested a while back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Just an idea. Maybe an engineer would get a belly laugh out of it... So what are the chances of getting phasers? [This message has been edited by Zoom Rabbit (edited May 17, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sceltor Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 Rather good, as I'm holding one right now! *Zaps first person he sees* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest garyah99 Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 Actually what Gunner just said is your answer; in an emergency where a forced landing is required, it is standard procedure to dump excess fuel. The only time where fuel is a factor, or a fireball ensues is when a landing is unexpected (crash!), and there is no time or opportunity to dump the fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 There aren't fumes still in the tank? I'm told that's what actually is dangerous, more than the liquid fuel. My idea mostly is toward blasting the tanks dry, and free of any explosive fumes. Unless they do that already. In that case, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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