Point Man Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Where are you getting the information that Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin? Go to post #94 in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Go to post #94 in this thread Again, as I've said, the movies as well as George Lucas triumph the EU when there is conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Man Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Again, as I've said, the movies as well as George Lucas triumph the EU when there is conflict. Well, as I've said, show me where the movies and/or George Lucas say anything to trump the idea of Plagueis/Sidious causing the midi-chlorians to create Anakin. Give me a direct quote, and I will believe it. Until you can do that, everything you say is just your opinion, and, frankly, I will believe the published source over the opinion of a high school kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Well, as I've said, show me where the movies and/or George Lucas say anything to trump the idea of Plagueis/Sidious causing the midi-chlorians to create Anakin. Anakin is the Chosen One... meaning the Force created him... having anyone else create him goes against everything in the movies. You are basing your opinion on a lie made up by the biggest liar in the galaxy. I would like this question answered specifically: why do you want to believe Sidious? Why do you want to believe what the devil of the galaxy is telling? You know, Anakin wanted to believe what Sidious was telling. And you see where that got him right?? Give me a direct quote, and I will believe it. Click the link Niner posted. and, frankly, I will believe the published source over the opinion of a high school kid. How do you know I'm in high school? You checked out my profile? You know, I checked out your profile too, and I didn't see your birthday displayed. I must point out that taking cheap-shots doesn't help this discussion. I've never used a personal attack such as that against anyone in a debate, so for the sake of keeping this thread civil, I'd discourage using such a tactic to discredit me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Man Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Anakin is the Chosen One... meaning the Force created him... I do not dispute that Anakin was the Chosen One. I do not dispute that the Force created him. I simply believe the Force was aided by Plagueis and/or Sidious. If you want to believe the Force was responsible for Anakin's creation, why is it so hard to believe the Force was acting through the Sith? In the book of Exodus, God worked through Pharoah's evil deeds to accomplish His plan of bringing the Hebrews out of Egypt. In doing what he thought would preserve his empire, Pharoah actually caused his own destruction. I would like this question answered specifically: why do you want to believe Sidious? Why do you want to believe what the devil of the galaxy is telling? You know, Anakin wanted to believe what Sidious was telling. And you see where that got him right?? I do not think Sidious was lying in this instance. Even the most evil person will tell the truth when it suits his purposes. In this case the truth (as I see it) suited his purposes better than a lie would. The biggest reason I choose to believe Anakin was created by the Force as guided by the Sith is that I appreciate the irony of the situation. They thought Anakin would become the strongest Sith ever, only to have him bring about their destruction. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you have to admit it would bring a sweet irony to the Prophecy. Click the link Niner posted. Nothing of note there. How do you know I'm in high school? You checked out my profile? You know, I checked out your profile too, and I didn't see your birthday displayed. And you won't. I deliberately avoid putting any personally identifiable information on the web because I am in the Army and because I have children to protect. I would recommend you not put your complete birthday in your profile, either. I must point out that taking cheap-shots doesn't help this discussion. I've never used a personal attack such as that against anyone in a debate, so for the sake of keeping this thread civil, I'd discourage using such a tactic to discredit me... Point taken. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I simply believe the Force was aided by Plagueis and/or Sidious. So if Plagueis never decided to learn about how to influence midichlorians, the prophecy never would have come true? The Chosen One never would have come and the Force would never be brought to balance? I do not think Sidious was lying in this instance. Even the most evil person will tell the truth when it suits his purposes. In this case the truth (as I see it) suited his purposes better than a lie would. But he was lying about the ability to save life, which he said he had in the very same discussion he had when he said Plagueis could influence midichlorians. Sidious was making whatever up that he could to get Anakin on his side. Why is it that the ONLY thing that he EVER says that's not a lie is the single sentence he spoke that can be used to justify the reasoning for Anakin to be a demon spawn? I, for one, wouldn't trust the devil on anything he says. The biggest reason I choose to believe Anakin was created by the Force as guided by the Sith is that I appreciate the irony of the situation. They thought Anakin would become the strongest Sith ever, only to have him bring about their destruction. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you have to admit it would bring a sweet irony to the Prophecy. I admit that sounds good and I would have rather had that actually been the prophecy, that the Sith would bring about their own destruction. But that's simply not what the prophecy of the Chosen One says. Nothing of note there. It's just the quotes of George Lucas, but since you don't dispute Anakin's status as the Chosen One (as many of the people who argue for Plagueis or Sidious to be Anakin's father do), then never mind. And you won't. I deliberately avoid putting any personally identifiable information on the web because I am in the Army and because I have children to protect. I would recommend you not put your complete birthday in your profile, either. Well, you're putting out your IP address by visiting this site, and that's the most personally-identifiable information you could put besides your name and address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Man Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 So if Plagueis never decided to learn about how to influence midichlorians, the prophecy never would have come true? The Chosen One never would have come and the Force would never be brought to balance? Though Plagueis made the choice of his own free will, the Force knew in advance what his choice would be. That is how all prophecy is made. It's just like the prophecies regarding the birth of Jesus. If Ceasar Augustus had not called for the census, Jesus would not have been born in Bethlehem. God, being omniscient, knew this would happen, and so he lead Micah to make his prophecy about Jesus being born there. But he was lying about the ability to save life, which he said he had in the very same discussion he had when he said Plagueis could influence midichlorians. Sidious was making whatever up that he could to get Anakin on his side. Why is it that the ONLY thing that he EVER says that's not a lie is the single sentence he spoke that can be used to justify the reasoning for Anakin to be a demon spawn? I, for one, wouldn't trust the devil on anything he says. I am not so sure he was lying about being able to prevent death. He may have been lying when he recanted. There are two possibilities: 1) Sidious did not know how to manipulate midi-chlorians at all. He just lied to Anakin to rope him in. Once he had converted him, he told the truth. 2) Sidious did know how to manipulate midi-chlorians. He used this truth to rope Anakin in. Once he had him converted, he lied. He had to be lying at some point and telling the truth at some point. I think it is much more in keeping with his character to use the truth to get Anakin into his fold, then pull the rug out from under him. If he was unable to manipulate the midi-chlorians, what reason would he have to reveal the truth after Anakin's coversion? However, there is plenty of reason to lie to him after his conversion. Sidious would not want Anakin pursuing his quest of keeping Padme alive. He wanted Anakin's undivided allegiance. As long as Padme was alive, he would never have that. I admit that sounds good and I would have rather had that actually been the prophecy, that the Sith would bring about their own destruction. But that's simply not what the prophecy of the Chosen One says. The prophecy does not say one way or the other. I think we should both admit that you and I will always have different views on this. You choose to interpret the prophecy literally; I choose to make my own inferences. Neither of us can prove our view or disprove the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 He had to be lying at some point and telling the truth at some point. Well, he didn't have to be telling the truth at any time. It all could have been a lie as I'm saying. The prophecy does not say one way or the other. I think we should both admit that you and I will always have different views on this. You choose to interpret the prophecy literally; I choose to make my own inferences. Neither of us can prove our view or disprove the other. That's something we can agree on. I must say you have articulated the argument for the Sith creation of Anakin better than anyone I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Man Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Well, he didn't have to be telling the truth at any time. It all could have been a lie as I'm saying. He said one thing, then said the opposite. One of those times he had to be telling the truth. Unless you want to say he only hinted he might be able to help Anakin save Padme, which I could accept, as well. I must say you have articulated the argument for the Sith creation of Anakin better than anyone I've read. Thank you. Hey, I have to put all those years in school to work somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Of those that believe Plageuis created Anakin, can you guys answer the following for me: If Plageuis did create Anakin through whatever means, why he would do so with a slave woman in a remote world outside the boundries of the Republic? Why didn't he create him in a situation he had much more control over, like in his lair or something? Why wasn't such a valuable mother and son protected from interference (i.e. A Jedi Master walking right up to him and taking him under his protection and delivering him to the Jedi Order)? Why would he allow him to be a pod racer? Sure he is talented, but why put him into such a dangerous situation where he could be easily killed? Why would a Sith Lord create a being that he must have known would be the Chosen One and destined to destroy his kind? Isn't kind of indirect suicide? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Of those that believe Plageuis created Anakin, can you guys answer the following for me: If Plageuis did create Anakin through whatever means, why he would do so with a slave woman in a remote world outside the boundries of the Republic? Why didn't he create him in a situation he had much more control over, like in his lair or something? Why wasn't such a valuable mother and son protected from interference (i.e. A Jedi Master walking right up to him and taking him under his protection and delivering him to the Jedi Order)? Why would he allow him to be a pod racer? Sure he is talented, but why put him into such a dangerous situation where he could be easily killed? Why would a Sith Lord create a being that he must have known would be the Chosen One and destined to destroy his kind? Isn't kind of indirect suicide? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself? Im sure this sort of thing has been used it lots of fantasy plots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself show himself? I'm sorry but I can't understand what you said. From what I can understand, you're saying that they intended to create the Chosen One. Why would they intend to create someone who is destined to destroy the Sith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I'm sorry but I can't understand what you said. From what I can understand, you're saying that they intended to create the Chosen One. Why would they intend to create someone who is destined to destroy the Sith? The Sith have their own version of the chosen one. The Sith'ari Anyway i just used to chosen one as a term for someone created through the force and is strong in its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 The Sith have their own version of the chosen one. The Sith'ari Anyway i just used to chosen one as a term for someone created through the force and is strong in its use. Yes, I know that. But the prophecy of the Sith'ari just says that he would come. Not that the Sith would create him. But that he would just come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Yes, I know that. But the prophecy of the Sith'ari just says that he would come. Not that the Sith would create him. But that he would just come. So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith? obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about. Seriously its not that hard to grasp what i ment its really really basic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith? It doesn't say that. It says what the Sith'ari prophecy says... that he would just come. It's basically like the story of Jesus... but replace God with the Force and Jesus with Anakin. I mean, there weren't some people down on Earth using magic to create the messiah. obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about. ...Well, it's possible that's what they intended, but you can't force a prophecy. It just happens... otherwise it's not a prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Your really not getting this are you? lol Like i said it really is incredibly simple Basically MAYBE Sidious and his master had heard about the Prophecy of the Sith'ari now with the knowledge of the darkside they had, so they decided to see if they could make this prophecy come true by thier own unnatural knowledge, So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of force the only they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself. Sadly the Jedi found this kid first and took him to be their own version of the Chosen one. Its only very loosely like the story of jesus as in the story of jesus there wasnt two powers waiting for their chosen one to show up and of course there wasnt people on earth using magic to bring him alive because MAGIC ISNT REAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Your really not getting this are you? lol I get what you're saying (after deciphering your broken english), but the point of a prophecy is that it comes true due to the divine, not the actions of people. If something happens due to what people do (Sidious/Plagueis creating Anakin), it's not a prophecy anymore... it's only a prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Broken english? Oh forget it i have nothing else to say on the matter of Anakin being the chosen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Broken english? I apologize if english isn't your first language, but it's difficult to read english that lacks grammar and punctuation. No offense intended, it's just hard for me to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineCult Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 English is his first language and his writing is perfectly understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 English is his first language and his writing is perfectly understandable. Well, this part confused me the most... "So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of force the only they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Terros Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 "So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of the force the only problem they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself." ok my fault i missed out a couple of words lol it was late and i was tired still didnt take much brain power to fill in the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 it was late and i was tired still didnt take much brain power to fill in the gaps. Gotcha. I've been there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself?Why wouldn't they? Would they just forget about the whole thing and move onto something else? So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith?The prophecy says the Chosen One states that he/she will be created by the Force and concieved by the midiclorians. obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about.But why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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