Commandos vs. Spartans

[Micahc]

Heck if the commando got close enough to the Spartan, he would just get his neck broken. Jango is what, 5'11? While a Spartan is an easy 7 feet, that gives him about 6 more inches of stretch - easily enough to beat the freaking crap out of anything that moves. Even if the blade manages to get through his armor do you think it's going to stay their? I can pretty much garuntee you someone is going to have a broken neck. But, what if the Commando throws an ECD? I'm sure that there is a little thing that alll Spartans have in their suits called SURGE PROTECTERS. Yeah I know, way beyond our time but it could just be possible. I can't recall who said it, but some one said that Commando's are trained to be perfect in sniping, demo, etc. and Spartans weren't. Ten to one Spartans where better in all those respects. With the Commando's growth rate all their training would be rushed, while a Spartan had about 15 years before their first mission, and how old is one of the early ones now; 30? And a Commando's about 15 before the end of a war. Heck even if it did boil down to a long range fight, a Spartan isn't stupid enough to have a shotgun and an AR - heck even I would have a sniper and an AR. AR for medim to close, and sniper for long. It's not that hard. And if you still want to debate, go play the first missin on the Prosecuter when your just one commando, then go play pretty much any solo level on HAlo or Halo 2 and see who gets the job done better. Holly gosh I just add libbed that ?!

[taclled]

okay i was looking on wikipedia for spartans and Clone Commandos. what i saw is that their is much more info on spartans which allows for a better understanding of the spartans and what all they can and cannot do. The commandos on the other hand have alot of ?s around them. they are unpredictable and mysterious in some aspects. but looking at everything i would elieve they are evenly matched although i do have the felling the commandoes have a slight upper hand due to their mysteriousness

[Niner_777]

Heck even if it did boil down to a long range fight, a Spartan isn't stupid enough to have a shotgun and an AR - heck even I would have a sniper and an AR.

The point is that the commandos have weapons for any situation. The Spartan wouldn't know that he would be engaging in a long range fight, and therefore, have no way of knowing to bring a sniper rifle along. As far as the Spartan is concerned, he might think that he'd be engaging in a close range battle.

[Micahc]

The point is that the commandos have weapons for any situation. The Spartan wouldn't know that he would be engaging in a long range fight, and therefore, have no way of knowing to bring a sniper rifle along. As far as the Spartan is concerned, he might think that he'd be engaging in a close range battle.

He wouldn't know if he needs the sniper, but anyone with a brain would bring one along just incase, how would the commando know he even need ECDs? Sure they might not work - but don't you think he might bring a few along just incase?

[Niner_777]

The commando would bring along ECDs because they are standard commando equipment. I don't know if a sniper rifle is standard Spartan equipment or not. I'd imagine that they'd perfer to bring a sniper than a shotgun, seeings how they already own pretty much at short range due to their size and strength. However, in Darrell's post, there wasn't any mention of a sniper rifle for the Spartan.

[Just_Darrell]

I left a lot of questions out about how MJOLNIR armor works because I'm not familiar with that much of the Halo universe, however I am wagering that the suit has several electrically-based systems that an EC grenade would have an adverse effect on, and thus would have a negative impact on the Spartan's movement and function. Could Cortana take an EC hit? I don't know, but chances are she would be effected in some way (Maybe she'd be erased, maybe she'd just turn off for a while, maybe she'd start talking in Latin and dancing...chances are she would not be helpful during an encounter). I don't think even a supercomputer like Cortana would be able translate Mandalorian that fast; this encounter would be over in, what, minutes? I don't think she could crack their communication system, translate their system, and relay it back to the Spartan before the encounter was decided one way or another. Even humans require a healthy exposure to the language (Also remember not only are they talking in different languages, they're on different technology levels...Chief probably wouldn't understand what a DC-17m is, or what Pod Maneuver D-35B is) to translate it.

 

Do Spartan suits have a "surge protector"? Who knows. The Covenant doesn't seem to use a lot of EC-ish weapons, so it wouldn't necessarily be top priority. The Commandos don't have something like it, and the Star Wars universe is by far more technologically advanced than Halo's, thus chances are the Spartans aren't armed with one. Even if they did, the shield would still be drained out, which means a Spartan is going to die very quickly. Try playing Halo or Halo 2 with your energy shield down and have a grenade go off on Chief; see how he handles that. A lot of their durability comes from that shield, and when it's gone, a Spartan is a whole lot less resilient.

 

As for their specialties, the clones are genetically engineered to be masters at every craft of war. Humans are not designed, at our foundation, to be war machines. We each have varying interests and skills that are spread out in various fields; a soldier good at one thing is not necessarily great at another. Just because you're awesome with a sniper rifle doesn't mean you know whether to cut the red wire or the green wire.

 

In 15 years, the Spartan probably still does not have the knowledge that a Commando is born with. It's spliced into his genes. Also, as I said before, a Spartan is probably exposed and trained most to fight Covenant, and maybe humans. Commandos are trained to fight humans, droids, trandoshans, Wookies, and any other of a baker's dozen of races in the Star Wars universe. That means they have a lot more tactical knowledge and a lot more tricks in their sleeve than the Spartan does. Regardless of how one performs alone in their respective games, that's not what this discussion is looking at. The question isn't can a Spartan kill Covenant faster than a Commando can kill Geonosians. We're comparing one against the other, which doesn't have much to do with how fast they kill in their own games.

 

On a standard mission (Where I compared the Spartan and Commando), odds are he wouldn't be equipped with a sniper rifle. Generally when you have a sniper rifle in Halo, it's because you picked one off the ground, not that you started the mission with one in your inventory. An assault rifle/shotgun is more tactically sound than a sniper rifle/assault rifle. That makes you effective at everything except very long range, but even if a Spartan DID come with a sniper rifle, he's still outgunned by the Commando. The Katarn armor and energy shield could take a hit from a Halo sniper rifle; the same can't really be said for a Spartan without an energy shield taking a hit from the DC-17m's sniper attachment. Plus, the Spartan has surrendered the one thing that really made him more dangerous in close combat (Where he would have an advantage on the Commando) to focus on ranged combat where the Commando has him outgeared.

 

To me, no matter how you cut it, without the Spartan getting into close combat he has no chance to beat the Commando. In close combat he'll undoubtedly win most of the time, but most of the time he'll never get there. My bet stays with a Commando, who can negate every advantage a Spartan has at ranged combat, while still maintaining technical and tactical superiority.

[Bomberman65]

Again good post. Yeah I agree with you on both points.

Now guys I'll be away in Samoa for 2 weeks starting from today so I'll try and get on if and when I can so keep going.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Again good post. Yeah I agree with you on both points.

Now guys I'll be away in Samoa for 2 weeks starting from today so I'll try and get on if and when I can so keep going.

Ill be waiten

 

 

Anyway

 

Back on subject. The sheilds of the MJOLNIR cant takke plasma weapons very good, look at Sam. The CC weapons are Iodized to fight the droids as a primary target, that explains why the ACP is better at trandos than the DC-17. The Kartarn-class sheilds could easily take the bullets of an SMG, and Sniper for that matter. mabey even a rocket [splash damage, not direct hit]. Im Hand-to-hand, the spartan would be cut up by the Vibro knife in the commandos armour, give that ion energy [like KOTOR II] bye bye Johny.

[Micahc]

Last I checked a wookie rocket launcher blew a commando away (good times), so why wouldn't a UNSC launcher? And in RC it's the complete opposite of Halo - the Trando weapons tear through sheilds, and what are they? Projectile. DC-17m rounds -keeping in game- wouldn't do nil against a Spartan's shields. And hand to hand combat the commando would get thrashed. The blade would be useless agains solid titanium (was it titanium? Might've been something stronger) a few centimeters thick, with a Spartans beast strength the commando would get shredded. Or he would at least get his face bashed through. And for your last comment... SURGE PROTECTERS! Heck lets face it, if you had to create a super soldiers armor, chances are it would have at least something to keep it from over loading.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Wow man just wow. That was great you have oviouslly played both games. But I agree with you that Spartans are kool but Commandos are able to adapt better. On another note Commandos are able to speak in english (Galactic Basic in SW) and Mando'a which is their natural language. So they'd tell if they were being hacked and just talk in Mando'a. But man I'm still just getting over that. It was great. But the books of RC just increase what your saying further. But you should check them out but nice to have you to the discussion Ner Vode. (Mando'a for my brother)

So have I...

[1_337]

Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with Micahc.A viroblade cutting through a 3 & a half ton suit of armore? COME ON! The blade only one hit kills because of exposed flesh and thin metal. But... I think the commandos would win because a Spartan II's weak spot is the back.

[Just_Darrell]

DC-17m rounds could do a lot against MJOLNIR armor. He has the regular blaster rounds, sniper rounds, and an anti-armor grenade. An EC grenade would take care of his shield (And with several EC grenades he could keep the shield down for a good, long time) so he wouldn't have the benefit of its protection. In Republic Commando, I believe when a Commando is in the radius of an EC, it stuns him temporarily; a similar effect could perhaps be expected on a Spartan. I think this has less to do with the armor and more to do with the natural electrical impulses of the body being scrambled by the grenade.

 

Also, a vibroblade (From what I have read) can cut through solid rock. Something with that amount of power could easily do a lot of damage in certain key points (Neck, knee, elbow, shoulder, waist) where there are weaker joints in the armor to allow movement. The entire suit isn't made of titanium, then the Spartan wouldn't be able to move. I would assume the material covering the joints is similar to kevlar, which wouldn't be able to stand up to a vibroblade. The Spartan still has the advantage in close combat, but the Commando could still prove a challenge (Vibroblade through the neck, for instance).

 

And for your last comment... SURGE PROTECTERS! Heck lets face it, if you had to create a super soldiers armor, chances are it would have at least something to keep it from over loading.

 

Using that logic, they would also be equipped with fire extinguishers (In case the systems overloaded and caught fire), a wench hook-up system (In case he got stuck in some mud), a built-in virtual library in his HUD (In case he was on the pot with nothing to read), et cetera. You can't prepare for every possible scenario, it's just not cost-effective. Those suits are already costing an ungodly fortune to make, proofing them against things like electric charges and such would only make it worse (And impede the soldier). Plus, when the Covenant doesn't use those kinds of tactics, why bother? If you go to play a baseball game, you don't bring boxing gloves because you've spent a lot of time and money training, and you don't want to lose a game if the other team randomly decides to box instead of bat.

 

Know what I mean?

[Redtech]

Well, how do we even know that the EC would drop the shield? It's assuming electronics in SW and Halo work the same way. And Vibroblabes cutting rock? Doesn't mean squat when you're aiming a punch at someone with arms longer than your legs.

 

I will say that Commandos are better equipped, I already commented why, it's their role.

 

I'm wondering who would win out of Dead Cell and Republic Commandos now!..

[taclled]

ECs would drop the shield because that is what they are made to do they are, correct me if im wrong, a controlled version of an electro-magnetic pulse(which is also the cause for electronics not working around the blast area after a nuke),which brings all electronic movement to a halt, surge protectors wont do anything because the EMP is to strong for even the SP to handle.

[Niner_777]

I'm currently reading Halo: The First Strike, so I may learn some stuff along the way. One thing that was stated was that their armor weighed half a ton, not three and a half. Also, in the very beginning of the book, some of the spartans had to bail out of their ship, similar to what the commandos had to do in Hard Contact. Out of twenty-two spartans, four were killed, and six were wounded, just from the air drop. On the other hand, in Hard Contact, all four of the commandos survived, one hundred percent. I'm not sure if their armor is better, or they just have better freefall techniques, either way, the commandos outperformed the spartans in this senario, and either aspect would prove to be a major factor in combat. (Shield or Technique)

[Captain-Panaka7]

I don't know if anyone said something about this but the Commando's have alot tougher enemys then the Spartans.

[1_337]

Hey Niner, Get with the times. Were talking about the spartans in Halo 2 (which would be the V-6 model),

not Halo 1(which talk about the V-5). If you ask me those books need to be updated.

[shinobichan]

You've probably gotten this comment alot aleady Just_Darrell, but I thought that that was a great post on your part :-) I totally agree that the Commandos 1up the Spartans in firepower and more tactical options available in the equipment that they carry. I'd have to question your Spartan's tactics in your scenario though (wouldn't exactly go bum-rushing a heavily armed alien soldier whom I knew nothing about, throwing what clearly looks like grenades at me.)

 

In your scenario, I feel that a savvy Spartan would have more tactical options at his diposal than you make clear. One is that you armed your Spartan with an M6D pistol (you said 'pistol', I know, but i figured you were using halo 1 weapons procurment in that you mentioned your Spartan having an Assault Rifle.)

 

M6D pistols are issued with 2x smart-linked scopes that feed the visual data to the Spartan's helmet. It fires 12.7mm semi-armor-piercing, high explosive rounds. In Halo, it is a potent weapon that is deadly at close, medium, AND long ranges, in skilled hands. Covenant Elites wither under pistol fire, shields and all, in just a few shots to the cranium. It's one of the most versatile weapons in the game. In your scenario, I feel that a Spartan,ducking out of cover with the pistol and firing at the Commando's head, could kill or severly wound the Commando with just a few hits. It gives the Spartan a fighting change going against the Commando's DC-17m sniper attachment. It takes time for the Commando to switch weapon attachments in the heat of battle too. Not overly long, but long enough to be fatal.

 

The Covenant (or the Commando) may be blessed with superior technology, but as the saying goes, If it hurts, it works. Stormtroopers lost to little bears with sharp rocks and pointy sticks after all :-)

 

Another thing that I'd like to point out is that The Spartan has more than a chance of dodging blaster fire. And that blaster fire isn't very tactical at all. All the weapons that the Commando utilizes in battle (save for the sniper attachment and the gauntlet blade) fire in discrete bolts. You can see grenades sail through the air, you can see blaster bolts from the point they leave the blaster to the point where they hit something. In that way are the MA5B Assault Rifle and the DC-17m not equal. Damage caused by the Assault rifle is nearly instantaneous due to the high velocities of the projectiles fired. It would be very difficult for the commando to score hits on a super strong, super tough, super quick Spartan at medium-to-long ranges using standard blaster bolts, due to the lag time of the bolts. Furthermore, because of both the lag and the shiny nature of blaster fire, blaster fire of any stripe will give an opponent like the Spartan an extremely good fix on the commando's position.

 

The last point I would like to make (not a very big one though) is that the Spartan has a really good throwing arm. Next time you play halo, try arcing at 45 degrees and letting a grenade fly. It flies for like a hundred yards. Now it's just a hand-thrown grenade, right? would it be useful to the Spartan at medium to long range? Most likely. As you said, Humans in Halo are trained to fight the Covenant. One of the fastest ways to dispatch a Covenant Elite is to throw a sticky plasma grenade and make it latch to the elites armor. A Spartan would be trained to throw very accurately over long distances. So I feel that grenades are a viable option for the Spartan when combating a Commando at medium to long range.

 

Yes, more than likely, the gear that the Spartan carries with him into battle will not be as tactical as the gear a Republic Commando is accustomed to carry. But the Spartan's gear is built to be versatile. It's what allows the Spartan to take on jobs like capturing Covenant assault carriers single-handedly, and repelling alien invasion forces fifty times his size on foot with an assault rifle and a handful of grenades.

[shinobichan]

Niner, remember that the Spartans in First Strike had to bail out of a dropship in flames with no parasails. They were at terminal velocity when they hit the ground. Omega Squad in Hard Contact all had parasails and Darman busts his right leg when he hits the ground.

[shinobichan]

having the right genes helps, I feel that if anything, genes dictate potential fates and potential destinies (and yes, I am a big fan of Metal Gear Solid, if anyone caught the reference.) Clones and Clone commandos still have to be trained. They are flash trained in all the basic combat skills and specialities, and then they're REALLY trained, vigorously, thoughout their accelerated lives. You have an extremly effective and competent soldier in the end. A Spartan isn't that disimilar. The original 6 year old cantidates were selected from genetic markers, conscripted into the military and trained all of their lives up to the point where they received their armor. Sometime between they were biologically and cybernetically enhanced. then they went to work. Originally the Spartans were created to quell uprisings in the outer regions of human controlled space (halo universe here), then the Covenant Showed up and the mission changed. Spartans are around 30 - 40 years old at around the time of halo and halo 2, and have been in combat, REAL combat, not similated, since they were around 17 and 18 years old. Spartans have alot of experience to back them up.

 

A Spartan would know how to adapt to a changing combat environment. They had to, when the Covenant showed up. And Spartans are trained to fight in any environment on every kind of habitable planet where they would have to fight other humans or the Covenant. A Republic Commando is trained to do the same, and has an encyclopedic knowledge on how to fight hundreds of different species on hundreds of different worlds. Would that give the Commando a 1up on the Spartan?

 

Isn't the Spartan just a Human? A Wookie is not a human. How would knowing what the respiratory system of a trandoshan looks like, help in killing a Spartan?

[1_337]

Dude, Do you ever SHUT THE F l_l ( l< UP!?! For Pete sake if you want to say something just say it all at once not post it on seperate parts. And the Assault rifel was still in use during Halo 2.

[Ben_Walker]

I'll agree with shinobichan with the Spartans being well at adapting in combat enviroments, looking at the Cheif crashing on Halo Alpha (or whatever the first Halo planet was called) then dealing with posessed soldiers and the Flood... first time I faced one of the posessed Marines, I just shot him and figured I was too trigger happy for my own good.

[Redtech]

I'm currently reading Halo: The First Strike, so I may learn some stuff along the way.

Good book. But the fall of Reach is a lot more indicative of the Origins of Spartans. The fall of Reach sucks though.

 

Also, in the very beginning of the book, some of the spartans had to bail out of their ship, similar to what the commandos had to do in Hard Contact. Out of twenty-two spartans, four were killed, and six were wounded, just from the air drop.

They jumped with no Parachute. I'd like to see ANYONE survive!

 

having the right genes helps, I feel that if anything, genes dictate potential fates and potential destinies (and yes, I am a big fan of Metal Gear Solid, if anyone caught the reference.)

I'm a "master" of theoretical genetics. Genes can be helpful, but clones and Spartens were not chosen for the "highest" genetic efficiency. Many genes are not there because they improve fitness, many could be 'wild cards' that aren't so bad they reduce survival. E.g. green eyes versus brown eyes. The Spartens are all unique individuals and Jango sure as hell isn't "pure stock". Even when it comes to genes that make the "best" individual, since Naked Snake and Jango Fett weren't "ideal" (their offspring were modified) genetically you're only as good as the worst gene you've got.

 

(O/TConversely, one of the genes for cell immortality is the one that gives you cancer!)

[taclled]

also remember that commandos HAVE to carry a pack that weighs nomally between 20 to 50 pounds or kilos or something(i forget which although i think it is pounds) i doubt that spartans carry that much in one pack since they are deployed in groups of more than 4 soldiers they probably divide the gear between each other so they dont need to lug 20-40 LBS. per spartan/marine

[1_337]

Not true. A Spartan, with all it's systems working, can flip a tank. And still I

think that the Commandos would win if they all just jump him at the same time. The Spartan may try to react fast but the armor will slow him down.

 

P.S.: Do Commandos have emotions? Also, I've heard of a female clone made secretly on Kamino. Is this true?