Maxstate Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 They feel so.. so.. underrated right now. Make people choose, I mean, you cant have it all. OJP isn't a total conversion, but having gun vs saber battles, force vs gubattlesn, force vs saber battles where everyone has their own specialization would make it much more fun. I believe the styles have their share of power changes, maybe with some added feat tweaks the idea of having trained in a style and having become proficient at it will actually be satisfying! As I was saying I think that Hocks explained how all the styles have different dp damage rates. Small differences but worthwhile. I was thinking of adding even more "starwars" to it and giving the current styles particular "edges". You know the drill. Not in the sense that it would make one style BETTER than the other, but simply to spark customization and specialization. Ill take for example Tavions style which could be identified with Dooku's Makashi, what IF, and I say WHAT IF, you were to give it an edge over saber wielders somehow? Not as much to make it overpowered and not in the sense of more dp damage, but just make it have a small bonus when dueling a saber wielder. Examples could be: -Only style with desperation DP gain 008 style, when its red and you.. hmm.. ATTACK PARRY correctly you can get a small amount of your dp back. -No extra dp penalties when you get back whacked. Those arent too farfetched and I figure they wouldnt take THAT much time to code in right Ace? If we ever get to adding the dual style with 1 saber, I could go ahead and say it would be a version of Ataru. Now if you were to somehow (discussed later on) specialise in it, you could get to use force speed at half cost! (thinking of the BF2 Force Sprint Speed thing) Now for some q&A: -Why make people choose? Why not just keep it this way? A: Because this doesnt feel right, it doest feel right that every jedi has access to every style. It doesnt feel right to know you can beat your enemy with every style, using the same strategy. -So how are you suggesting people choose their specialization? I've had 2 theories, you could add 7 more buttons on the force selection screen with one for each style and a description of the added bonuses. Each would cost a number of points, and you would have to allocate points from force powers to select a maximum of 3 styles to call your own .( I would gladly give up Push, pull and grip to get saber more saber styles). Saber attack and saber defense would govern the amount of styles you could take. 1 def and 1 attack = 1 style etc. etc. The other theory was to select them for free at the profile screen somewhere and keep all the current styles but add the effects to them. I Dont like this one because it goes against my wishes of customization. -There are 7 forms, we only have 5 styles, double u tee-eff? A: Yellow = NIman/Shii-cho Tavion = Makashi Blue = soresu One handed dual style = ataru Red = Djem-So One handed staff style = Shien Desann = Juyo/Vaapad Please consider this, or at least a version of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensiform Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 no thx guns ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I always thought it should be in this order Blue - Soresu Yellow - Shien / Niman / Shii-Cho (lol makes yellow the ultimate dumping ground) Red - Djem-So (Aggressive variation of Shien) Purple - Vaapad / Ataru (closest I can match for Ataru is purple) Aqua - Makashi Dual sabers - Niman / Jar-Kai Staff - Juyo I based the stuff above on this and this. I've watched 2 of the 3 prequels before, but I don't have a deep impression of them, so I've kind of forgotten what some of the styles like Makashi actually look like Actually, I couldn't find a suitable slot for Makashi in any of the colours. Aqua is the closest I could find to match the form's description on wikipedia. Otherwise, most of my experiences with aqua in-game (strong defence, more or less a weak attack) just doesn't seem to match Makashi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I've never been opposed to making styles different, although, in the past I've suggested more individual customization or each style that can be created by the player. Basically, there would be another saber menu, where you could chose the maybe three out of seven styles you wanted and then you could add different characteristics from another menu to each style such as: more attack, more defense, more speed, more range, quicker slow bounce, higher heavy bounce probability, smaller desperation parry, stronger kick, another style, certain special moves, etc. You would get a certain number of points to put towards the styles you choose or maybe each style individually. Some characteristics would cost more than others and some styles couldnt get certain characteristics. While I think this should be the ultimate goal for OJP saber customization, this will take a while to implement and I'd be fine with any other ideas for customization that would be fairly easy to code until then. Maxstates ideras seem fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 I always thought it should be in this order Blue - Soresu Yellow - Shien / Niman / Shii-Cho (lol makes yellow the ultimate dumping ground) Red - Djem-So (Aggressive variation of Shien) Purple - Vaapad / Ataru (closest I can match for Ataru is purple) Aqua - Makashi Dual sabers - Niman / Jar-Kai Staff - Juyo I based the stuff above on this and this. I've watched 2 of the 3 prequels before, but I don't have a deep impression of them, so I've kind of forgotten what some of the styles like Makashi actually look like Actually, I couldn't find a suitable slot for Makashi in any of the colours. Aqua is the closest I could find to match the form's description on wikipedia. Otherwise, most of my experiences with aqua in-game (strong defence, more or less a weak attack) just doesn't seem to match Makashi Shien incorporates holding your saber in your backhand, a la one handed staff style. Vaapad is Mace Windu's personal style, it doesnt seem realistic to be using someone's own variation on a style. And Maul was the only person ever trained in using staff Juyo, and he got beaten by an Ataru Padawan Speaking of Ataru, I hope everyone understood WHAT I meant with the one handed dual style? Start a solo game, get dual sabers, now throw one away and voila. Only problem is that its in the left hand. And Hocks, havent regretted any of your ideas thus far, lets try these simple ones first and then we'll move on to yours! (IF IF IF ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Cariss Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Interesting ideas. I do think it would be good to make the Saber styles more different from eachother. Each one should have advantages and disadvantages. I also think saberists should never be able to use Guns (except maybe a blaster pistol like in FM3). However I do think Gunners should be seperate from Jedi. What can I say? I'm a Movie Battles fan. I don't want Guns to be a secondary weapon to the Lightsabers. I want guns to an alternative to the Lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Interesting ideas. I do think it would be good to make the Saber styles more different from eachother. Each one should have advantages and disadvantages. I also think saberists should never be able to use Guns (except maybe a blaster pistol like in FM3). However I do think Gunners should be seperate from Jedi. What can I say? I'm a Movie Battles fan. I don't want Guns to be a secondary weapon to the Lightsabers. I want guns to an alternative to the Lightsaber. I agree completely, I actually had a big bit about guns but removed it as to let the OJP community see how they like this idea first. Im all in for guns becoming a main weapon, I also think that in a couple of versions we should start thinking of classes. Not in the way MB has them (unless thats what you guys want), but I was thinking of borrowing the siege layout and changing it a bit and still (like in MB) leaving room for customization. Jedi, lightsabers, force powers, its taken too much for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Cariss Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I'm all for customization, but at the same time I love balance. I think MB2's Point System is genious, and would be awesome in OJP. I know it's the "Open Jedi Project" and all, but Blasters are a huge part of Star Wars just as much as Lightsabers are. I'd love to see Guns get more attention (like in MB2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Thing is, guns will always be less superior to lightsabers. That's why Vader didn't get owned by Han MB2's system is good though. Even a soldier can beat a jedi given the right stats (2 lives, some tactics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Thing is, guns will always be less superior to lightsabers. That's why Vader didn't get owned by Han MB2's system is good though. Even a soldier can beat a jedi given the right stats (2 lives, some tactics) MB is too gunner-oriented, as you said, they will always be inferior to lightsabers. I never liked how MBII portrayed Jedi and Sith, sure they cant kill off an army but I've never seen them run from groups of simple blaster wielding foes. And dont you give me that EP1 and EP3 droideka bull****, they couldve easily taken them if it werent for the fact that getting pinned down by a droideka is strategically dangerous and very time consuming. It takes time to get close enough to a deka or to penetrate its shield with its own blasterfire, wasting that time could've given the droids an advantage; they couldve called for backup. At this point gunner-fanboys would mention Jango and Boba, guys, Obi could also've just pulled Jango's guns from him remember? Sorry for the rant, lets get back ontopic. And dont get me wrong, Im all in for gunners and balance, but not in MB's sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yeah, Jedi and sith will probably always be tougher than individual gunners, because its just not movie realistic otherwise. It should take a small army to take out a jedi which is why I look forward to whenever Razor might be able to start working on creating NPC soldiers that follow their commander for a soldier class and only use little guns (blaster, E-11 etc.). I'm sure that razor could do a much better job of it than FM3 did. Maybe make them able to follow orders and make alt fire the deflaut when they use E-11. There could probably a few classes that are more equal to jedi by virtue of big weapons (sort of like a hero or bounty hunter class) or being able to fly (like mando). But any other gunner class will most likely be punching bags for a jedi or sith. I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced. Agreed. I think a score bias is the best way to deal with the inherent inbalance in fair of the jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Oh and about the order thing, base already has Npcattack, npcfollow and npcdefend I believe, they just dont work lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Take your time to do it razor. I know what a bitch coding is. We can wait Uhh...right folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Damn straight beeotch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 PICS PICS PICS: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/upclosebehindsaber.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0146.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0155.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0116.jpg Compatible with RGB http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0118.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0128.jpg Ill get more ASAP but its hard finding time as it is . Dont forget to zoom the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristamus Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Ya guys definitly need to read up on this stuff for the lightsaber poses and whatnot, its the best, most well known source... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I don't beleive in the whole "seven forms" thing. I feel that it's a post-movies recon used to poorly explain onscreen action. It's pretty obvious that every jedi has a unique style, trying to bottleneck them into seven specific forms is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 I don't beleive in the whole "seven forms" thing. I feel that it's a post-movies recon used to poorly explain onscreen action. It's pretty obvious that every jedi has a unique style, trying to bottleneck them into seven specific forms is silly. If thats how you see it, Im cool with that. But the most universally used theory is that a jedi chooses a "form" and creates his own "style" for it. Just like Kyle took Soresu, Djem So and Niman and worked out his own set of very simple techniques for it. But you do still like the "adding bonuses to styles" thing right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I'd be open to that if/when we get to the point of doing a class/skills system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristamus Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I can see how that may be difficult. Adding a whole new class system would definitly be taxing, and take alot of time to develop. Although, DO think of the incredible outcome that could be had in the scenario you make the classes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think I'll use this thread to comment on your new saber anims Like I've told you on MSN: awesome work there! Everything's beautiful Still, hope my minor nitpick can be fixed or something. It was so good that well...I feel bad if I don't nitpick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think I'll use this thread to comment on your new saber anims Like I've told you on MSN: awesome work there! Everything's beautiful Still, hope my minor nitpick can be fixed or something. It was so good that well...I feel bad if I don't nitpick ASAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced. Agreed. I think a score bias is the best way to deal with the inherent inbalance in fair of the jedi. I just remembered this as a comment and I think this should be added into the next version as well. Since we dont have classes, maybe we should consider the blaster, E-11, disruptor, and crossbow as lower level weapons (3 points a kill) and the rest as upperlevel (2 points). But I must say I still think the regular blasters are waaayy too useless against jedi when compared to explosives. I'm mean come on, gunners have enough trouble being COMPLETELY vulnerable to forcepower as it is. Can we maybe do something similar to MB2 where the faster you move, the more DP damage you get from blasters? I mean, It should still take many shots to kill a jedi even when hes running in OJP, but a gunner would be lucky to hit a running jedi enough times to do significant damage especailly if the jedi is zig zaging at all. he's what I suggest for this: 1. if the jedi is standing still, he blocks and loses force at the rate he does now against a blaster. Only a small army has any chance at to stop a standing jedi. 2. for Jedi Walking, maybe 1 and 1/2 to double DP damage for hits. 3. for jedi running, maybe double or triple damage. 4. shots from behind double whatever hit level its at I mean come on, this is movie realistic. The jedis in the movies didnt seem nearly as good at deflection while moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokakeke Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Using stances to represent forms of lightsaber combat is a bad idea, simply because nobody in the movies used these stances. They used some moves of each, however. I always felt purple and cyan were extremely close to Windu and Palpatine's styles. What I'd like to see is a force menu that let you buy moves from each stance. For example, I could buy the DFA or overhead flip (red and yellow, jump + attack + forward), but not both. Other moves would be the same. You could choose a very unpredictable Vaapad style with different looking swings by using a strong forward attack (as with the red) but one handed side swings (like cyan/blue) That would be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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