Saber styles perks

[Yango]

What I'm most interested in are special perks (for harder styles especially) that are not +xx% obvious, to use which you'd have to perform certain actions and use situations in battle, like some kind of combos. They would require a dose of timing skill and some knowledge of the style; and therefore would be very rewarding. Although the fight is already so complicated it would be probably hard to implement any. And, uh-huh, no randomness in combat, please ;<<

 

And, um, what is the current situation with Juyo apart good dp damage? Any special stuff?

[ensiform]

(for harder styles especially)

Define harder styles. Because IMO that is an opinion right there.

[Yango]

"Define harder styles. Because IMO that is an opinion right there."

Thanks for pointing that out. Harder to learn I meant, so the more exotic ones. Juyo, makashi, duals and staff; others apart the basics to a certain degree.

[Maxstate]

Quinlan vos only knew Ataru and he was a Juyo trainee for a while. I don't consider realism a factor anymore when facing problems that have never heard of reliasm.

Saber styles != realism, lets just wing it.

[TheShaman]

Yea, since they are not all seen, we just try to give them an overall interpretation that makes them different. (Note that the player can use them as he wishes, since they are forms, which help in creating his own unique style.)

[Tanqexe]

I just have to say to Unbeholden that, even though my list of suggestions was incomplete, copying my words pretty much verbatim is extremely bad form. Plagiarism is a no-no.

 

Anyway, we are limited by canon as to how the various styles actually look in combat, as we only have the movies to show what kinds of moves/philosophies are put into practice by various practitioners. If we go with trying to emulate the different forms based on what's seen in the movies, we'll be very limited and nobody will really be satisfied in the end.

 

The big picture here is to deliver a very fun experience, with saber perks being an integral part of combat, not optional. Creative liberties must be taken, such as in the case of the MP vs DP damage deal with Makashi. No one form when mastered should be vastly superior to another, just as in real life different martial arts emphasize different approaches to combat, but at the root no one art is superior.

[The Unbeholden]

HEY GUYS I'VE CHANGED ALOT SO READ THIS AGAIN AS I EDIT POSTS!!!

 

 

 

The perks need to supplement and boost the combat philosophies associated with each form so that someone who fights with a particular philosophy can prefer to choose to use that form because it suits his or her style of play. With increased cost the forms should also have a greater gap between strengths and weaknesses, i.e. most expensive styles should have great strengths at the cost of some significant weaknesses, leaving it up to the player to use skill to cover for those weaknesses in a fight. We should get rid of Saber Defense altogether and make those bonuses implicit with a saber form.

 

The Roman numerals next to the form names refer to the order of which have been created in the star wars universe (just a good way to remember). Once Shii-Cho is learned any one of these styles after which can be chosen. It takes along time and dedication to master a style, so it will take consireble time to get the full advantages of a style; as in there are 3 levels to each light saber form.

 

For the animations of the 2 new saber styles; for Ataru put in the animations of single staff and Niman to have the animations of single dual (single as in staff light saber and dual light saber styles but with only a normal light saber instead), because Niman is almost identical to dual light saber combat and staff single has all the acrobatics for Ataru. In this way we can have all 9 forms.

 

I# Shii-Cho

 

Philosophy: Foundation form, no-nonsense emphasis on basics, short on exotic techniques. Younglings are taught Shii-Cho first because of its simplicity and versatility. Sometimes called the ideal form.

 

Pros: You get to buy all the basic necessities of saber combat at cheap point cost. the Shii-Cho form is good versus many enemies wielding conventional blaster weaponry. Its simplicity is its strength, making it a very good style to use if all else fails.

 

Cons: Nothing remarkably exotic to counter more expensive styles. This style of lightsaber combat is not useful against multiple strikes because it only works as a basic guide for lightsaber combat.

 

II# Makashi

 

Philosophy: After Shii-Cho's proliferation as a saber combat technique, Makashi came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out.

 

Pros: passive-aggressive emphasis on parries and setups, uses speed and precision with easy blocks tiring opponents out. making it the best light saber to light saber style.

 

Cons: The biggest flaw in Makashi is that it will not hold off heavy attacks, such as from Djem-So or from multiple enemies/attacks. also the weaknesses comes as with short precise movements makes it quite hard for deflecting many blaster shots, this style having one of the lowest deflection rate.

 

III# Soresu

 

Philosophy: Defense style, extreme passive emphasis on blaster deflection and saber blocks for survival, patiently waits until enemy presents an opening to exploit.

 

Pros: very close bodied blocks gives it the fastest deflection rate for blasters, and the speed and ridiculous blocks that can be made gives it the most effective extreme close range saber fighting. As most saber styles are aggressive you can wait for your opponent to make a mistake to land a deadly blow.

 

Cons: Abysmal attack strength, meaning you'll rely on your opponents dropping there guard at some point to inflict any damage.

 

IV# Ataru / Ataro

 

Philosophy: An acrobatic style, perfecting these manuevers leaves the user a hard target, this also puts aggressive emphasis on using rotational momentum to deliver powerful strikes and using the force to flow deep through your body enhancing your speed into all of your attacks makes this the ultimate style interms of overall combat finese. Ataru users have been said to be a blur in combat.

 

Pros: Due to its aggressive nature, it is an effective form to use against single enemies; also it makes running in combat more effective as this style doesn't need to conserve any energy, usually defeating opponents quite quickly.

 

Cons: however, it leaves the user open to attacks from multiple opponents; therefore, it is wise to use Ataru in a duel, but not in open warfare. the greatest strength of Ataru is also its greatest flaw. The acrobatics will make the practitioner vulnerable to having their legs chopped off. Also it is less effective in close quarter combat as it leaves little room for acrobatics. Another flaw is that is uses alot of force power as it's used to enhance the style, and because of all the acrobatics if Ataru users don't defeat opponents fast enough they will be left weak and easy to defeat.

 

V# Djem-So / Shien

 

Philosophy: Bulldozing style, force enhanced attacks and blaster reflection used defensively as well as aggressively.

 

Pros: This style is quite unpredictable, knocking down their light saber weilding opponents more than other forms. While Serosu combatants effortlessly deflect laser bolts, Djem-so practitioners excel at redirecting the blaster bolt toward the opponent. This simultaneously defends the user and efficiently injures the opponent.

 

Cons: permits the user to actually fully block and repel attacks since it calls for the use of more powerful, Force-enhanced strength. this means this style is incapable of parrying making it a defense flaw.

 

VI# Niman

 

Philosophy: The basic philosophy of Niman is "the leaf swept in the winds of the force". One who uses this form attains a mindset of one who is not perturbed by their surroundings, but rides the currents of the surrounding chaos, being harmonious and balanced within. It is a style of Moderation, making it effective against all light saber styles as its influenced by all.

 

Pros: As it takes a combination of all styles, it has no penalties when versing against another light saber form. The most unique thing about Niman is it's harmonized balance gives the user complete control of the force, making you resistant to force attacks even when your in the heat of battle. This form is a must if one wants to learn to use dual light sabers.

 

Cons: has a surprisingly low chance of deflecting blaster bolts, lower than any form.

 

VII# Juyo / Vapaad

 

Philosophy: Unpredictable style, uses very open, kinetic attacks that use emotion to make it more powerful. Anger ruling you in combat makes this style border on the edge of the dark side.

 

Pros: Every blow from a master of Juyo is threatened to be a life-ending critical strike. Excels at dexterity and strength of attack.

 

Cons: in return it sacrifices defense against both weapons and the force. To much focus on aggressive attacks leaves this styles defenses down and because in their anger Juyo users have a hard time focusing on the force making them vulerable to force powers. (even though this is so, the upside is being in touch with their anger makes dark side powers easier to channel)

 

Dual# Dual light sabers / Jar'Kai

 

Philosophy: This style uses one light saber for defense while another for attack, allowing you to do two things at once. But unfortunately this takes a long time to master and it needs multi tasking skills making it only suitable for a few people, very rarely is this style used because of this. Most of the time ends up users cutting their own limbs off by mistake. To use this style you must first master Niman, as Niman is the stepping stone for the use of this style (Anyone who has ever used Dual light sabers has first mastered Niman so you need Niman as a prerequisite).

 

Pros: Allows to parry and attack at the same time, attacks are twice as fast, can throw both light sabers with light saber throw and if disarmed this style turns into Niman until light saber is retrieved.

 

Cons: is quite expensive in skill points and requires a mastered Niman in order to use this.

 

Staff# Staff light saber

 

Philosophy: The Staff light saber is the best for kicks as this and the styles attacks are utilized together. Takes some time to master as the risk of cutting your own limbs off happens often to inexperienced users. The staff light saber utilizes a few key principles of its own combat but does not have a certain style, allowing you to give your own interpretation on its use depending on what ever light saber form you've previously learnt requiring you to have mastered at least two light sabers forms (ataru being similar because uses same animations, modify Ataru's moves a bit so they look different to this).

 

Pros: Allows for acrobatics, light saber attacks and kicks to be used at once, attacks are twice as fast and is the most effective style against multiple opponents as it can defend your back and front at the same time.

 

Cons: To use this style you need alot of skill points and atleast two mastered light saber forms of any kind.

 

 

 

OK THIS TIME I'M DONE, I HOPE SOMEONE TAKES ALL THIS INTO ACCOUNT, OTHERWISE I'VE WASTED MANY NIGHTS WORK

 

Note: I give credit to everyone who has contributed as ive summarised ideas from others. 25% of it is from Tanqexe which i thought was really good. I give permission for everyone to claim this as its part of everyones ideas, but 75% of this is mine which i worked hard on and researched for days.

[Tanqexe]

*sigh* Proposing your own ideas is one thing, and taking some ideas and incorporating into your own is another, but can you please not plagiarize word for word what I wrote? I already warned you once, shouldn't have to warn you twice, man.

 

(I'm completing the list that you plagiarized as we speak.)

[Maxstate]

Unbeholden, why did you use the material Tanqexe wrote? And why are you passing it off as your own? You could've at least given him credit for writing it and QUOTE him?

[The Unbeholden]

Im not stealing ideas im just summing up that every body wrote... plus adding a few ideas of my own... anyone can credit for what i wrote... i give you all permission..

[Maxstate]

But untill Tanqexe gives you permission, would it be fair to 'use' his? I can't see that you're quoting him nor crediting him for his work.

[The Unbeholden]

not only that but 75% of that is mine anyway... i don't know what all the fuss is about?

 

Only about 25% of that is his and a couple other things are taken from various places... so i don't need permission. almost all of that is research stuff that I've wasted about 3 days non stop compiling....

 

 

show me some respect.. my eyes are red from long nights/ why do you guys hate me .

[Maxstate]

Even if 1% is his you need to ask permission. I'm not familiar with the legal acts, rules and laws that are bound to this, but on a personal level I will tell you that from now on, taking your posts seriously is out of the question.

 

What you're doing is wrong, man.

[The Unbeholden]

sue me then..

 

I don't care about the Law... all i care about is this wonderful mod... look at the ideas i came up with besides those of Tanqexe,,, this took me ages to compile... stop bad mouthing me. As ive said these ideas are from all over the place. I give you all permission to claim it as your own. As this is everyones work,,,

 

but most of it is mine and just research.. anyway glad you like it

[Tanqexe]

Ok, dude, there's no need for melodrama here. We're not attacking you personally in any way. It doesn't matter how long you took to compile, so long as you do not acknowledge WHERE you got your information from and CONSENT for information, what you're doing is not right, ethically, legally. This is a lesson for you to learn, for your own sake. You'd get in big, big trouble if you did this in school or in some other venture.

[Maxstate]

Anyway guys, I don't know whether we should really be enveloping ourselves into the whole perks stuff yet. After playing 0.1.0 I'm surprised to see that gunner vs saberist combat is still pretty much random and not fun. Gunner vs gunner is nice, could use some improvement, saberist versus saberist is extraordinary as we know but saberist vs gunner just seems so spammy for some reason..

 

Me and Darthdie (well mostly darthdie ) have been working on trying to improve the gunner vs jedi combat and some other things that have been annoying me and my testers. Aside from tweaking the secondary fires of the e-11 and bowcaster darthdie has also increased max jumpheight for every level among other stuff. We're about to try the code via hamachi, anyone is welcome.

[The Unbeholden]

sorry for the mellodrama but you really hurt my feelings as I worked hard on that even though "some" of it was Tanqexe... i will now add his name to the ending of my post for his idea. Just because i love yous all

 

anyways glad you guys forgive me.. yer i reckon the gunner vs jedi is not fun at all. Good one Maxstate. me love you to

[Tanqexe]

Yeah, gunner vs saber combat comes first, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't debate about the technical stuff about perks. Not like we can't discuss different things at the same time

[TheShaman]

OK I'm no longer on holidays, time to start studies, so I probably will be far less active than I have been (especially around june and july). As a last post before I go, I put here the latest review of my "dream" about saber style perks, in hope it will help OJP and you'll like it.

 

 

Note that any "implicit declaration" I do in my text counts as a definition ("blabla does x% damage instead of y%" means that I think it should be y as default, and x for the perk of the current form.)

 

The number before form name is the cost of the first level. The level 2 and 3 should cost respectively 2 and 3 points for all forms. (So Shii-cho costs 1,2,3, Makashi costs 3,2,3, Juyo costs 4,2,3...)

 

(1)-=Shii-cho=- 15 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: Blocking rear shots or swings only does 150% DP damage, instead of 200% for other forms

L2: Blocking shots costs 1 DP less

L3: Any MP gain is reduced of 1

 

(3)-=Makashi=- 14 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: - Start time of swings is 25% shorter

- Attacks deal 2 (maybe 3) MP and attack fakes 3 (maybe 4) MP to the opponent if he doesn't parry

L2: Attack parrying an opponent doesn't make him lose MP (or if it can't be done, just make it give the same ammount of MP as a normal parry)

L3: Attack parrying an opponent deals 7 DP damage to him (cannot kill though, just DP drain)

•Disadvantage:

L1: Blocking shots costs 1 DP more

 

(2)-=Soresu=- 13 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: Blocking shots costs 2 DP less

L2: Parrying costs 25% of the initial DP cost, instead of 50% for other forms

L3: Attacking an opponent in a slow bounce, heavy bounce, or stumble deals 150% DP damage (other multiplicators such as running x1.5, stumble x2... are still applied)

 

(2)-=Ataru=- 16 DP damage (Not just 1 saber dual stance, we would need a real new one, looking like Qui Gon's)

•Advantages:

L1: Swing speed (not start-swing animation, and not transition) is 25% faster

L2: All jumps have their base cost halved (see jumps FP cost for more details at bottom of post)

L3: Force empowered attacks enabled (Released attack fakes do 25% more DP damage than the usual attack fake, and do 1 FP damage, but can't cause lock.)

 

(2)-=Djem-so=- 17 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: - Transition time reduced of 25%

- Manually deflected shots have 75% chance of getting reflected right in the crosshair instead of 50% for other forms

L2: When you attack parry an opponent, he suffers a little knockback and loses 2 FP

L3: Hitting an enemy with an attack or attack fake makes him lose 1 or 2 FP respectively, if he doesn't parry.

•Disadvantage:

L1: Whenever you gain any MP ammount, you gain 1 more MP

 

(4)-=Juyo=- 17 DP damage (maybe 16 to replace Ataru's if it doesn't get implemented)

•Advantages:

L1: DP cost to dodge is reduced of 5

L2: Attack fakes deal 25% more DP damage if not parried than other forms' attack fakes (which means: 17*1.25*1.25)

L3: Running swings deal 200% DP damage instead of 150% for other forms

 

(4)-=Staff=- 13 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: Can hit 2 times with 1 attack

L2: No DP penalty for blocking rear shots and swings

L3: Allows chain swings: everytime you attack the opponent and he doesn't parry, you get 1 extra attack point (AP) which is added to the next DP damage, it is cumulative.

(Example: if you hit the enemy 4 times in a row without being parried, you will do 13, then 14, then 15, then 16 = 58 DP damage, but if he parries you in the 3rd attack, it will do 13, then 14, then 15 (parry reduction applies of course) [sTOP], and when you attack again, it starts at 13 again, AP is set to 0 again)

 

(4)-=Jar'kai=- 14 DP damage

•Advantages:

L1: - Can hit 2 times with 1 attack

- Never fully disarmed

L2: No extra FP cost for attack fakes

L3: Can parry while swinging

•Disadvantage:

L1: Attacking costs 2 FP

 

 

Jumps FP cost without Ataru:

-Normal jump: FP_cost = 4 + (3 - jump_level) + heaviness_of_equipment

-Special jumps (wheels, baclfkip): FP_cost = 2 + (3 - jump_level) +

 

heaviness_of_equipment

-DFAs: FP_cost = 2 + 1 + (3 - jump_level) + heaviness_of_equipment

(DFAs cost 1 FP more because there's an attack in addition to the jump.)

 

With Ataru:

-Normal jump: FP_cost = 2 + (3 - jump_level) + heaviness_of_equipment

-Special jumps (wheels, baclfkip): FP_cost = 1 + (3 - jump_level) +

 

heaviness_of_equipment

-DFAs: FP_cost = 1 + 1 + (3 - jump_level) + heaviness_of_equipment

(Note: The 1 FP more of the DFA is because there's an attack in addition to the jump.)

 

heaviness_of_equipment is the sum of the weight class of weapons and items, not only selected, but carried (if possible):

Saber: 0

Pistol: 0

E11: 1

Bowcaster: 1

Thermal: 1

Detpacks: 1

Rocket launcher: 2

Clone rifle: 2

Disruptor: 2

Bacta: 0

Jetpack: 2

Force field: 1

Cloaking device: 0

Flamethrower: 0

Seeker droid : 0

Sentry gun: 1

 

Which makes a maximum of 14.

[JRHockney*]

I don't know Shaman, that sounds pretty complicated. I already have a long explanation to knew players about the saber system and the perks as it is and I'm not sure I want it more complicated than it is right now. Some of that stuff would take alot of tedious coding and some of it I wouldnt even know how to code.

 

Right now its just me and darth doing coding with occasional help from others and we're trying to focus one balancing other aspects of the gameplay, fix bugs, and maybe even add some new skills if we can figure out how Our saber system is at a good enough place right now I think. Maybe in the future we'll do more tweaking and consider this further, but not until theres much more players asking for tweaks to it and everything else is at a passable level..... unless somebody else wants to code it?! We might give it a try in that case.

[The Unbeholden]

You forgot Niman .... on a second note this forum has been a ghost town.. where is everybody/ ?

[Jawa Bond]

Busy I'm sure, I've got a ton of work piling up. Also keep in mind that they need time to work out the coding or even be able to code some stuff. It takes a while from what I've heard.

[razorace]

on a second note this forum has been a ghost town.. where is everybody/ ?

I'm just lurking and been busy with other things.