Balancing suggestions

[Faelion]

To avoid long times, LMS could help if it made everybody respawn.

 

Everyone respawning, as I said, wouldn't work in CTF. Also, now that I think about it, if everyone respawned in Holocron mode the leader would lose their holocrons. Whether or not that is a good thing could be argued, but I think the leader earned them. The other side is that the leader could stay the leader easily if they still had them.

[Maxstate]

You should really try one of the newer revisions

[Faelion]

You should really try one of the newer revisions

 

What do you mean? I have 'v'. Is there another?

[TheShaman]

Yes there is, not a 009letter but a revision (560).

 

And I still think that respawn is a good idea. In CTF maps you have ammo dispensers, so you don't have to make everybody respawn. And to be honest, CTF LMS wouldn't be very good... once the flag carrier killed his enemies, nobody to stop him heh?

Also in holocron, LMS sounds a bit weird, and would it be that bad to lose your holocrons between each round? It would be far less boring to have to get new ones to fight, more unique combinations, more unique fights.

[Maxstate]

What do you mean? I have 'v'. Is there another?

Well...

 

Whether or not the force powers are changeable, gunners still have ammo problems. (aka: still weaker than Jedi)

As Shaman said, Jedi outlive gunners in the long run, but there are viable and easy solutions to that.

 

Jedi have rechargable power. Mercs have flamethrowers, but they were weakened considerably.

The seeker, sentry, flamethrower and pistol never run out of ammo, but I understand.

 

Seekers get destroyed quickly (and kill unsuspecting allies sometimes), and sentry turrets don't move.

This is far from the case. The biggest annoyance currently according to my betatesters is the seeker. It just totally ruins gameplay and usually has jedi on their knees before the gunner even has to pull the trigger.

 

Force fields are one time use. (needs to come back after a couple mins)

I think the gunner in questions needs to be able to "use" them and pick them up, then after a mild cooldown, set it down again.

 

The pistol shoots sooooo slowly. If it had its charge mode maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

It has a recharge function (that needs some tweaking) and it's fire rate when shot right is just under that of the e-11 I think.

 

The clone rifle is near useless since its shots go everywhere with the mishap-accuracy system.

If you run, yes. You need to manage your mishap, takes getting used too.

 

The rocket launcher has a long reload rate (where you can't even switch weapons while it is loading) and only three shots.

It will literally obliterate anything that is already floored, and floor anything that is standing. If there is a weapon that is considered a team weapon, it's the rocket launcher --> two people with 'launchers working in a team can wipe out a whole team by timing their rockets.

 

Thermal detonators only knock people down rather than blowing them up. Thermals could be better even with one shot that actually does something.

Well now you have a quite overpowered version of the quick/snapthrow working in the latest revisions... and it makes the thermal pretty lame, but very much usable against pretty much anyone. I suggest we just buff it's damage to instakill in a wide area but make it timed only.

 

The blaster rifle doesn't have full auto mode, though it does do decent damage (though with full auto there would be similar problems to the clone rifle).

The blaster rifle is my weapon of choice --> takes down a jedi in 10 shots or less if they all hit.

 

Cloak doesn't cloak (it makes you "The Blur").

I actually like the new cloak, it's an improvement over the new one that had blue streaks running through it. Pretty hard to see unless the lighting conditions are just good enough.

 

The bowcaster and disruptor are great, while I have ammo. (though I'd like the bowcaster's primary and secondary fires swapped.)

I think Shaman has a point. The widespread multishot thing is just too much of a quake 3 thang.

[TheShaman]

Seeker needs less fire rate (like 1 shot per second, or even 0.5 maybe), half of pistol's damage. Also to make it cooler it should be same shots as pistol (small yellow shots, not big pinkish-red shots) and have same speed as pistol shots.

(Which means: faster projectiles, less damage, less fire rate, yellow shots)

[Faelion]

As Shaman said, Jedi outlive gunners in the long run, but there are viable and easy solutions to that.

 

Read the first nonbold line of my starting post. Totally already agree. What are the solutions though?

 

The seeker, sentry, flamethrower and pistol never run out of ammo, but I understand.

 

If either the seeker or sentry are destroyed, aren't they gone until the gunner respawns?

 

If you run, yes. You need to manage your mishap, takes getting used too.

 

Even while standing still it feels out of control. Does the mishap meter go up less with each shot if you have more experience? That would be a cool feature.

 

I think the gunner in questions needs to be able to "use" them and pick them up, then after a mild cooldown, set it down again.

 

I'd vote for that, but what if the force field is destroyed? Should it be gone or should the player still be able to pick up a damaged version with a longer 'cooldown' time (for repairs).

 

Yes there is, not a 009letter but a revision (560).

 

How can I get the newer revisions?

 

It will literally obliterate anything that is already floored, and floor anything that is standing. If there is a weapon that is considered a team weapon, it's the rocket launcher --> two people with 'launchers working in a team can wipe out a whole team by timing their rockets.

 

Fine, but why can't you swap weapons? (I'm guessing it has something to do with the reloading process being unaviodable because it won't continue to reload after you swap back.)

 

Pretty hard to see unless the lighting conditions are just good enough.

 

So cloaking is more hide in the shadows then. Okay.

 

And I still think that respawn is a good idea. In CTF maps you have ammo dispensers, so you don't have to make everybody respawn.

 

Where are the ammo dispensers?

 

And to be honest, CTF LMS wouldn't be very good... once the flag carrier killed his enemies, nobody to stop him heh?

 

That's what I had in mind. When they get their point everyone may respawn though.

 

Also in holocron, LMS sounds a bit weird, and would it be that bad to lose your holocrons between each round? It would be far less boring to have to get new ones to fight, more unique combinations, more unique fights.

 

I was just asking for opinions on that one. I understand what you are saying, but there are still two sides (since 'boring' is relative).

 

Could there be a cvar that says if everyone respawns? (to get both sides)

[TheShaman]

A cvar to make everybody respawn or not, according to the server hoster's will? This seems interesting.

 

As for the latest revisions, they are very well hidden in a topic called OJPE Latest Revisions Thread.

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=179091&page=2

[ensiform]

As far as respawning goes, you don't have to make it kill people as i said in the previous topic on this. Just make it reset some stats that player_die normally does, and "respawn" as needed.

 

The ammo dispenser cans are newbie. Should make a way to spawn ammo and health droids in the maps or something like SW:BF2

 

Or have jawa's randomly walking around and able to toss packs of ammo and health :S

[DarthDie]

I vote for the second idea .

[Faelion]

As far as respawning goes, you don't have to make it kill people as i said in the previous topic on this. Just make it reset some stats that player_die normally does, and "respawn" as needed.

 

The ammo dispenser cans are newbie. Should make a way to spawn ammo and health droids in the maps or something like SW:BF2

 

Or have jawa's randomly walking around and able to toss packs of ammo and health :S

 

The 'stat reset' one is good, but the other two result in camping next to the dispensers (or following them).

[TheShaman]

Ensiform is our man! Respawning without killing wins!

But as for the Jawas... the idea is funny but well...

By the way, why would we still need ammo or health dispensers?

[UDM]

How about a feature called "manufacture ammo". Basically, its like an emote that uses the typing animation. When you're in that emote, the ammo for your weapon will recharge. Moving around cancels the emote

[TheShaman]

Good idea, I'm for a reloading system, but then the gun needs a clip, and an ammo pool (pretty much like MB2), otherwise gunners would have infinite ammo, which is very bad.

[UDM]

Its not really infinite ammo. What happens is ammo recharges slowly depending on which gun you're using. Maybe the E11 recharges at a rate of 4 rounds every second, while while the rocket launcher reloads at 1 round every 15 seconds, but this can only be done when you're in the "manufacture ammo" emote. This means you can't run while manufacturing your ammo. You'll need to stop, get into that emote (just like how Jedi need to sit in order to recharge dp and fp at a decent rate)

[Maxstate]

Agrizzled.

[TheShaman]

DP always regens 6 per second (if FP >= 10), though.

But well, even if it's very low, it's still infinite ammo... so they should be able to reload a certain ammount of ammo, but after a big while (imagine a player playing FFA, he doesn't die for 30 min because he pwns all) he should run out of ammo. This makes Jedi last longer than gunners, while gunners could beat a Jedi when they are "fresh" and at full power.

[Faelion]

Why not use both UDM's and ensiform's ideas? UDM's is good during a long match and ensiform's is good at the end of any LMS match.

Using one or the other is bad for gameplay. Using only UDM's idea, gunners winning an LMS match would be beaten by gunners that died. Using only ensiform's idea would he bad during long games of any type.

 

I think that these would be pretty good if balanced times were given to UDM's idea. (15 seconds is a long time.)

[TheShaman]

This would mean everybody respawns between LMS rounds (I like), and gunners would be able to create ammo out of nowhere (I like, but not completely).

 

Gunners should have an ammo pool, which they use to manufacture their ammo that goes in the gun. Maybe we should make an ammo pool size skill (cheap) which increases the ammount of ammo that is held in the pool, so the gunner can refill his gun a lot if he spends points in this.

[UDM]

And if the ammo pool's 0 as well, then what?

[madcatmach2]

as i said before....fisty cufs it works surprisingly well

[TheShaman]

If ammo pool is on 0, then the gunner cannot recharge his gun anymore. That's life.

[Faelion]

If ammo pool is on 0, then the gunner cannot recharge his gun anymore. That's life.

 

That's a little harsh don't you think? Then gunners, once again, will not be able to last as long as Jedi. Or do you suggest, for some sake of realism, that they should not?

[TheShaman]

That's exatly the point. Gunners are good on short term, Jedi on long term. A Jedi is meant to survive, while a gunner is meant to quickly take out his foes.

[UDM]

If you want to have an ammo pool system and yet still give them limit their ammo pool...then whats the point of having an ammo pool? I mean why do you want an ammo pool system that serves no other purpose other than waste people's time to reload? The whole point now is how to let gunners have ammo without nerfing them totally

 

I think a player with good aiming skills should be given the chance to survive instead of /kill just so he can continue having fun

 

If you don't agree, you could always start a poll and see how many people are in favour of your idea