Modding Rights and Restoration Rights

[The Source]

Hello All,

After the events of this past week, I thought I would open a thread about modding rights and privelages. If you have been paying attention to the signature, the original name MacCorp has been retired completely. I just thought I would get that out of the way. Instead of pursuing this conversation in someone's modding thread, I wanted to take a more responsible approach to the issue of modding. There are a few reasons why I am against restoring content, which the game developer had removed from use. I am not going to focus on any specific group, for I do not believe it would be polite to flam, bash, or harass.

 

The first thing I want to address this this comment::

-Hi,

-

-It's hard to comment on what is legal and illegal as it relates to

-modifying a game. If a lawyer for Obsidian or LucasArts were asked,

-they would say that it is illegal because the EULA probably says that it

-shouldn't be done. In reality, action is very rarely (if ever) taken

-against groups making mods to games. The reason is that unless the mod

-defames the game or makes money, it isn't really worth the company going

-after the mod group and is probably counter to promoting the game if

-they do.

-

-What's important to take from the above is that I am not saying that

-doing the mods are legal or illegal. I'm only providing a point of

-view. Also I'm not a lawyer - so my opinion should not be taken as

-legal advice or an allowance to do or not do anything.

-

-Sincerely,

-

-Feargus Urquhart

-CEO

-Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

Got this today in my inbox.

 

There goes my fear of it being shut down out the window.

After reading this email that was obtained by a more responsible visitor (True_Avery), I descided to do some more research. When it comes to getting any rights for modifying a game, you have to look at the EULA and documentation that comes with the game. According to all of the documentation that comes with "Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords", the sole company that holds rights to the game is "Lucas Arts". Obsidian has absolutely no rights in telling you that you can or cannot modify a "Lucas Arts" game. Obsidian cannot legally tell anyone that they can or cannot modify any of their publishers' games.

 

If you ever hear a "LucasForums.com" personal say, "LucasArts allows modding", I would do some more research on the matter. I would not take what they say at face value. Since they have no legal rights to tell you that it is okay to mod a "LucasArts" game, they can only tell you based upon what they have observed. You the gammer are soley responsible to do the research, which is required to find the answer to, "Does LucasArts allow gamming."

 

Observational Note:: After visiting LucasArts.com last night, I did notice a possible oversite that was alarming. Hopefully, we can get an answer from "LucasArts". Since they revamped their website, "LucasArts" left our the press release that allows a certain level of modding. It would be nice to see this press release again, so that it acts like an open liscense to modders.

 

When it comes to restoring game content, I personally believe that the act should be done with discresion. Why? I personally believe that a publisher, developer, designer, or artists rights should be protected. Since the restoration that is occuring belongs to someone else (and it is not manipulated texturally or story edited), I personally believe restoration without manipulation is stealing. We have some great 'original' storyline mods here at LucasForums.com, which were developed through several levels of manipulation. When it comes to restoring content that belongs to someone else, getting interviews online for restoring someone elses work (getting noticed), and then getting your name out there, I personally believe that this is stealing all around.

 

When it comes to the legality of restoration, do not take it from me or anyone else, read the EULA documenation that comes with the game. Yes. Lucas Arts has been known for allowing and outlawing modding. When it comes to what is or what is not legal, I would consult the EULA documentation for more information. Since I am in no position to tell you what is right or wrong, I can only reference the materials that we have. It would be nice to have the press release, which Lucas Arts had publically supported the mods up at LucasFiles.com. However, there is a deep diference between 'restoring something' and 'modifying something'.

 

I hope we can have a more civil debate on this topic.

The Source

[Aristotle]

You make some interesting points Source and I think you did what you could to track down information pertaining to the answer you seek. Speaking as both a lawyer and an owner of LFN, I can assure you that the press release details you read about are still very much in place between LFN and LucasArts. I am in contact regularly with the Lucas Legal team and we deal with a variety of issues on a regular basis.

 

Without getting into details I can also assure you that LFN and LucasArts have a contractual relationship that allows the users of LucasFiles.Com to mod files and post them for downloading so long as they agree to the "terms of use" found on LucasFiles.Com.

 

So, what the CEO of Obsidian told you was pretty accurate from his standpoint. He's also right in that most companies would never take the time to really bother with mods unless someone was making a profit on their work or abusing it in some unfit fashion that would offend people, etc.

 

The best bet for this type of modding, and the safest way with guaranteed protection of LFN for modding would be to post it on LucasFiles and if LEC ever had an issue with anything posted, I would get a phone call in about 10 minutes on my cell.

 

Hope this helps clarify things.

 

-Ari

[Emperor Devon]

Not really a lot to say on the topic. Modding is fun and LA doesn't mind it, so we do it.

 

When it comes to restoring content that belongs to someone else, getting interviews online for restoring someone elses work (getting noticed), and then getting your name out there, I personally believe that this is stealing all around.

 

I disagree. I think it depends on the work you're doing yourself. The TSLRP team is doing an enormous amount of scripting and work for their project (which is a mod I believe you consider unoriginal).

 

The definition of restoring someone else's work is rather blurry when you extend it to coding and aspects of modding other than story-writing or skinning. Is it original if you're making a script that you know the function of? Is scripting itself an unoriginal form of modding since you're simply writing out codes that already exist? Is modifying an already existing skin less original than than making a brand new one? Does the originality vary depending on how many pixels you alter? I don't think you can lump modding into the categories of original and unoriginal, since it's not a completely original activity in itself (since you're modifying things in an already existing game).

[The Source]

You make some interesting points Source and I think you did what you could to track down information pertaining to the answer you seek. Speaking as both a lawyer and an owner of LFN, I can assure you that the press release details you read about are still very much in place between LFN and LucasArts. I am in contact regularly with the Lucas Legal team and we deal with a variety of issues on a regular basis.

 

Without getting into details I can also assure you that LFN and LucasArts have a contractual relationship that allows the users of LucasFiles.Com to mod files and post them for downloading so long as they agree to the "terms of use" found on LucasFiles.Com.

 

So, what the CEO of Obsidian told you was pretty accurate from his standpoint. He's also right in that most companies would never take the time to really bother with mods unless someone was making a profit on their work or abusing it in some unfit fashion that would offend people, etc.

 

The best bet for this type of modding, and the safest way with guaranteed protection of LFN for modding would be to post it on LucasFiles and if LEC ever had an issue with anything posted, I would get a phone call in about 10 minutes on my cell.

 

Hope this helps clarify things.

 

-Ari

Thanks Aristotle for the quick feedback. Is it possible for us to get a public statement similar to the 'press release', but to have it posted here in the forums? Would it be possible to get LucasArts' definitions of what they believe is considered allowable modding? Or, would that be too much?

[Aristotle]

Source,

 

I think they want LFN to be the folks in between the modders and them. That press release was the result of months of contract negotiations and rewrites and more rewrites between LFN and LEC AND LucasFilm legal ... so when they put that out, they made the position clear.

 

Their/our wording and their position is well detailed in the terms of use on LucasFiles.Com and they fully support and endorse downloadable mods that are posted on LucasFiles so long as they are posted within the terms of use.

 

I do not think LEC would provide another statement just to have it more recent. They made their statement public and have supported the community efforts for years since then.

 

Good questions on your part and well researched. You would have no idea about the things I informed you about today, so hopefully that sheds light on the issue.

 

Ari

[Rogue Nine]

From the official LucasArts press release:

 

Fans who create game modifications (mods) based upon characters and elements in titles by LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC can now post their works on the Internet at LucasFiles, which can be found at http://www.lucasfiles.com. The new site, created by Lucas Fan Network (LFN), http://www.lfnetwork.com, an independent collection of web sites dedicated to LucasArts and its games, is an exclusive and sanctioned online location offering a variety of mods inspired by LucasArts titles. The LucasFiles database also hosts unique fan produced content, levels, and an array of other media.

 

"LucasArts is grateful to the Lucas Fan Network, whose enthusiastic and very dedicated members have created a distinctive online destination for fans of our games to showcase and share their creations with others," says Simon Jeffery, president of LucasArts. "The fan community is incredibly important to LucasArts and this site will provide them with a variety of ways to continue to celebrate their passion for the company and its games."

[The Source]

Source,

 

I think they want LFN to be the folks in between the modders and them. That press release was the result of months of contract negotiations and rewrites and more rewrites between LFN and LEC AND LucasFilm legal ... so when they put that out, they made the position clear.

 

Their/our wording and their position is well detailed in the terms of use on LucasFiles.Com and they fully support and endorse downloadable mods that are posted on LucasFiles so long as they are posted within the terms of use.

 

I do not think LEC would provide another statement just to have it more recent. They made their statement public and have supported the community efforts for years since then.

 

Good questions on your part and well researched. You would have no idea about the things I informed you about today, so hopefully that sheds light on the issue.

 

Ari

Thanks Aristotle & Rogue Nine. I couldn't find that press release. I thought they somehow lost it in translation. Aristotle, you did clear things up. Thanks. Now I understand the collations that were missing.

 

Source