Wytchking Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I thought I may as well start a thread about this, partly to ask for comments and suggestions (), partly to show progress This is the start of the overhead mishap. I'm going to add a step backwards to show the loss of balance. I may have to add a parry animation for it to make sense as it is meant that the opponent pushes the saber back. (BTW I'm not pleased with this animation at the moment so I may rehash it completely) Should I add another step? Do you want the animation to be as long as the current one or shorter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Am I the only one who can't see the gif animating? I'm using Firefox.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I can't see it either. It's just a still pic for me and I'm using explorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDie Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Its supposed to animate? I cant see it animate either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Look in the URL and remove the ".th" so it says blablablba.gif Looks good by the way, good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Ah, that makes it work. Thanks, Maxstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 By the way, I'm not sure who to talk to about this. Maybe, Maxstate or Wytchking. But I have a request for a new stance for Djem-so or shii-cho. I'm not trying to sound like an expert or be annoying, but I actually practice real sword-fighting (which is why I like OJP so much, great work gentlemen) and the preferred stance with a 2 handed weapon is with the sword above your head. It's called the High Guard. The reason for this is because the weapon is the most ready to swing from this position. I've noticed that the animations for swings from the Djem-so and Shii-cho come to a position much like this before swinging and I thought that since the stances of Djem-so and Shii-cho are quite similar it might be nice to make one a little more drastically different. Here's a link to a picture of the high guard which is also referred to as the roof guard as you can see: http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Roof0003.JPG The picture shows the sword slightly to the right of his head because in a suit of armor it is often impossible to get the sword directly above your head due to movement restriction. However, in unarmored combat (like jedi) you generally hold the sword directly above your head so that you can more easily strike to the left or right. As I said, I'm not an expert and I really appreciate OJP. The mishap GIF above just got me to thinking because it's so similar to the high guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 In the latest set of animations I've been tinkering with, I've added a couple of new stances to experiment with the 'breathing' effect that you can gain by looping some of them. The stance I'm planning for one of the styles looks just like that Tell me, holding your saber low, pointed towards your enemy and infront of you == defensive or offensive? or neutral? I've got that one on Djem-So right now for experimental purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 In the latest set of animations I've been tinkering with, I've added a couple of new stances to experiment with the 'breathing' effect that you can gain by looping some of them. The stance I'm planning for one of the styles looks just like that Tell me, holding your saber low, pointed towards your enemy and infront of you == defensive or offensive? or neutral? I've got that one on Djem-So right now for experimental purposes. It sounds like you're describing the Alber or Fool's guard which is a deceptive guard. It's purpose is to fool your opponent into thinking you aren't ready when actually you intend to quickly bring the point up into their face or chest. It's sometimes used to counter the high guard. Is this picture what you're describing? http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Fool0003.JPG or this? http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Plow0003.JPG The second picture is the Plow guard which is more of a defensive guard but still ideal for thrusts. The current Juyo stance is pretty much this one. This next one is my favorite: http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Ox0003.JPG This is the Ox guard and I think it would be suitable for the soresu because it is a defensive stance designed to counter the high guard. From it you are ready to parry strikes from above and can easily twist down into the plow guard or fool's guard to defend or strike low. It's also somewhat confusing to your opponent offensively because it's ideal for looking like your attacking the side but changing through and attacking from high downwards. Although confusion is more of a Juyo trait I guess. I like the Makashi the way it is because you need at least one single handed stance. The breathing sure sounds like it'll be cool. To answer your question though the strongest and most offensive stance is the high guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Ah yes it's the first one, only ingame the player's legs are further apart The Ox guard is ingame, but in heavily mutilated form if I might say. Looks more like something that an anime character (yuck) would hold his weapon like. I'll take some pics later tonight/tomorrow to show off the new stances, do note though that the biggest change to them -the breathing- won't be visible in screenshots, obviously . Quijohn, do you have MSN? I'm currently on a roll with the animations and I'm tinkering with something every time we play pretty much. If we can make more believable/realistic stances, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Ah yes it's the first one, only ingame the player's legs are further apart The Ox guard is ingame, but in heavily mutilated form if I might say. Looks more like something that an anime character (yuck) would hold his weapon like. I'll take some pics later tonight/tomorrow to show off the new stances, do note though that the biggest change to them -the breathing- won't be visible in screenshots, obviously . Quijohn, do you have MSN? I'm currently on a roll with the animations and I'm tinkering with something every time we play pretty much. If we can make more believable/realistic stances, I'm all for it. Yeah I just finished private messaging it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yango Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Yo folks, I don't like those weird sword stances tbh, werent they designed to be used with heavy xx kg swords? Lightsaber is, well, light so they don't make that much sense. I would really not like to see jedis walking and holding their saber like this: http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Roof0003.JPG yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytchking Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Is there a faster way of showing you animations than a GIF (I'm converting .PNGs to .GIFs using paint), especially as I managed to muck it up last time (thanks maxstate for telling people how to fix the problem, I'm unavailable most weekends so couldn't help). I've made progress and would rather not have to spend half an hour making a GIF. the sword above your head This has been added before several times and it never seems to look right, perhaps because it tries to emulate anime, perhaps because they create a very static position, pehaps because the animations were not designed around it. You never know, though, OJP could become famous as the first mod to have a realistic overhead stance . I also may as well put up my MSN (stephenbrown63@tiscali.co.uk) but be patient with me if I get it wrong; I only just got it and am slightly unsure of how to use it properly. edit: Here is another GIF of it Currently the animation is mediocre at best. The second step backwards is just wrong, and the footwork, generally, isn't right. I'm going to have to edit each frame seperately to get it perfect. Its something to do with the rotation. Any help here would be good . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Ok, awesome! Just added you. And I agree about the overhead, but I remember the mod from JO that made me want to tinker with animations.cfg, it had breathing stances and used slashes for deflecting and just 'felt' plain awesome in so many ways. Animations to me don't have to look good, they have to feel good, they have to be smooth and they have to make you feel like you're controlling a finely tuned ballerina dancer with a 50 kilogram ballast in its hands.... on ice. They need to be elegant, refined and need to respond seamlessly with you and the environment. This is what I'm trying to achieve, I hope us 3 can get to an agreement on what we want so we can start creating magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytchking Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 I hope so to. Currently my animation is anything but. BTW Just edited my last post (now shows current animation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 That one is nice! I can't imagine mustering even half the time needed to create something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytchking Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 I can't imagine mustering even half the time needed to create something like that Its half term. At the moment I have alot of it. For the time being I'm going to try some others as I can't quite work out whats wrong with the footwork (other than it is wrong, swords people?). Oh and while browsing the animation.cfg I've noticed there's no block left or right e.g. BOTH_P1_S1_L for any stance. Anyone know why Raven didn't make one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Because the diagonal blocks connect with the sideswings If you could whip up the two we'd much appreciate it, shouldn't be harder than a stance. I'll work with you on that one if you need help, but I doubt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytchking Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Quickly done, easy to edit. Tell me if it needs any changes. It will need coding in though. (If the GIF's too fast I'll upload another one) edit: New finishing postions (not a GIF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Yo folks, I don't like those weird sword stances tbh, werent they designed to be used with heavy xx kg swords? Lightsaber is, well, light so they don't make that much sense. I would really not like to see jedis walking and holding their saber like this: http://www.westernswordsmanship.com/images/Stances/Roof0003.JPG yuck. A common misconception is that the longsword is very heavy. Although they're probably heavier than a lightsaber they only way 2-4 pounds. And they are not blade heavy, they're hilt heavy. The reason for the stance is more for readiness than because the sword is too heavy to lift quickly. If your going to swing down either diagonally or straight the blade has to come up first. I recommend only that one of the stances be this way. That leaves 3 others and the more different they are from each other the better I think. If you guys are interested in movie realism check out Anakin and Count Dooku at the 1:59-2:04 minute marker here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekt_-bJJNUY 2:02 The truth of it is that in the movies there are not a lot of points where the jedi stand for any length of time in a guard. They generally trash talk each other and debate the light vs darkside from a distance in a more relaxed stance, and enter combat so quickly that they don't actually square off first. And this is true to real swordplay as well. You only stand in a guard when combat is absolutely eminent. In Ojp that's most of the time but there are the idle animations that occur when you stand there for too long doing nothing and you can turn off your saber (which I think is the cool thing to do) while not fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Quickly done, easy to edit. Tell me if it needs any changes. It will need coding in though. (If the GIF's too fast I'll upload another one) edit: New finishing postions (not a GIF) I think those look great and I'm completely satisfied with them. If you wanna take the time to be spot on as far as actual swordplay the feet should be different. If you're blocking to your left your right foot should be forward and if you're blocking to your right your left foot should be forward. You basically want to turn and face where the saber is coming from and to do this with balance and strength you need to step into it with the opposite foot or step back with the corresponding foot. But, like I said they look good right now and changing the feet (if it's tedious work) might not be worth it. And if these animations are supposed to look like he's in trouble or he's losing the advantage then they're perfect because then his feet might very well be wrong. Great work man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 It just occurred to me too that maybe the feet will be doing whatever they're doing according to walk animations. Is that the case? Cause if so, my last post is useless. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Its half term. At the moment I have alot of it. For the time being I'm going to try some others as I can't quite work out whats wrong with the footwork (other than it is wrong, swords people?). Oh and while browsing the animation.cfg I've noticed there's no block left or right e.g. BOTH_P1_S1_L for any stance. Anyone know why Raven didn't make one? I think the feet are backwards. He should maybe step back with his right foot first because he would have just finished a downward chop which has a step forward with the right foot animation on all styles except soresu I think which is stationary. So I just to clarify, I think the animation should start with him standing with his right foot forward and his left foot back. He should then step backward with his right foot first. Almost a symmetrical image to what you have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wytchking Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 But, like I said they look good right now and changing the feet (if it's tedious work) might not be worth it It doesn't take that long for a single position. It just occurred to me too that maybe the feet will be doing whatever they're doing according to walk animations. Is that the case? Cause if so, my last post is useless. Sorry. It does. No worries (though it would help if you used the edit button, your cluttering the thread ) I think the animation should start with him standing with his right foot forward and his left foot back Its starting position (and therefore the legs) is taken from ingame. It would mean replacing the entire set of attack animations, which is tedious and unbelivably long work which is probably beyond my level and beyond the tool (Dragon is basic, though usable). Thanks for your comments though. Anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quijohn Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 In that case I think they're good man. I would have thought you could have the starting position be the animation frame from mid way through one of the downward swings. But i don't know much about it. All I've done is edit the cfg for new stances and try to adjust return anims to make them gel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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