Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Searching... Do you have a Shuttle PC? I see a lot of references to Shuttles when I Google this particular model. It will complicate things if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I do. I have the SN27P2. Edit: *reads* "New for 2006...". My baby is not old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Uh-oh. I don't know if that PSU design is proprietary, but it is certainly non-standard and would be difficult and expensive to replace, especially on a computer that's what, 2 years old now? I don't think that it would be worth the investment. At least you have the 400W model and aren't stuck with a 300W. I think that you would be better off getting a card that will work with your current PSU. The GTS 250 may indeed be a better choice for you. It would still be a monster improvement over what you have. As long as your PSU has one 6-pin PCIe plug, which I think it does, you should be OK. One of the improvements of the GTS 250 compared to the 9800GTX+ is reduced power consumption; it only requires 1 6-pin plug instead of 2. Astro is the Shuttle guy here, and would know way more about anything regarding Shuttles than I do. PSU aside, we'll need to know if the card will fit in that itty-bitty case. IIRC, Astro has managed to fit first a 7950GX2 and later on an 8800GTS 640MB into his Shuttle case, so I'm sure that it's possible, but once again he's the guy to ask. In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes open for a bargain GTS 250 for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ok, I'll hit Astro up via PM (not sure how regularly he visits here). Thanks for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Are you kidding? This is his lair. And you're welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Are you kidding? This is his lair. Note to self: Pay more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Are you kidding? This is his lair lolz... now I have a lair A trait common among arch criminals, satanists and despots. I do. I have the SN27P2. Edit: *reads* "New for 2006...". My baby is not old! oooh....a kindred spirit Ive got, and am now stuck with the very same model It still works super mind you, but is a bit limited from a GPU upgrade perspective. The 400WPSU is not an issue for the 250 at all The only issue is the size of the case. As the the SN27P2 is an older model, its support list is not updated on shuttle's site. The best other resource for all things shuttle are sudhian forums. Ive had a quick squiz for you and it looks sorta promising One user reports sucessfully cramming the evga GTX 250 into his SD27P2(the intel version of the SN37P2) see this thread for more info about the P/P2 chassis GPU limitations. and this thread about the SN27P2 specifically Of course, you can always join and ask the specific question if need be. Im not 100% sure how identical the SD37P2 and SN37P2 are in terms of connector placement near the pcie - which is teh crucial factor. Youd want to compare notes with a SD37P2 owner first before forking out for the 250 The specific post by the user who has the 250 for his SD37P2 is here I am currently using an 8800GTS 640 and dont have any difficulties with the type of games you mentioned, including at resolutions above 1440x900. I play mass effect at 1080p, NWN2 even higher, crysis at 1080p but uber effects dumbed down a bit I have to admit, since I discovered the EVGA overclocking app, I can get much more out of the 8800GTS than I believed possible, though I dont game that much to really test it out on a wider range of games. good luck mang mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Achilles, if you're looking for a ridiculously cheap solution that would cost you less than half of what a GTS 250 would, then look no further than this card. This is the older (and better) 96-shader model (the new 9600GSO only has 48 and isn't worth buying). It might not have 1GB, but 768MB isn't too shabby at all and is probably all that the card can handle. When overclocked, this baby is roughly comparable with Astro's 8800GTS 640MB. The only hangup is the cut-down memory bus, but I have one of these cards myself and both the core and the memory overclock very well. I've got mine at 650/1630/950 (core/shader/memory) and I haven't even begun to push it yet. Best of all for your case, this card is truly single-slot and will not intrude into the adjacent expansion slot on your motherboard. Even so, its cooler is still effective because it has a shroud that directs airflow over the memory as well as the GPU. This card is easily twice the card of your 8600GTS. You can't do better for $50.00, and this is the most sensible upgrade for a computer that's approaching 3 years old, IMO. The rebate is large, yes, but PNY rebates are known to be reliable. As long as you jump through all of the hoops you'll get your money. I bought one of these for the workstation that I'm borrowing from my folks, and right now it's making a lot of sense to get a second one for the computer that I'm building for a $100.00 SLI setup that would approach a GTX 280 in performance. I just need to find a good, cheap SLI motherboard and decide whether to go with an Intel or AMD CPU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have no experience with PNY. Should I take this as an endorsement? EDIT: Also, I have no experience with overclocking. How does one go about doing this and what other considerations do I need to take into account (aside from voiding warranties, potentially shortening lifespan...). You mentioned that this card runs fairly cool. Will I need to purchase additional cooling equipment? Sorry for the n00b questions. @Astro: thank you, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have no experience with PNY. Should I take this as an endorsement? Yes. The build quality on my card is good. I haven't gotten my rebate yet, but I just checked their site today and it has gone through and the check is on its way. Several other people at Anandtech forums have bought this card and all have gotten their rebates. This card is immensely popular over there because of cheap SLI and it's usefulness with Folding@home (Nvidia cards are better at folding). I can't believe that there are any left. So yeah, I endorse this card wholeheartedly. I think that it would perfect for your needs since you don't require native res, and it's extremely cheap to boot. EDIT: Also, I have no experience with overclocking. How does one go about doing this and what other considerations do I need to take into account (aside from voiding warranties, potentially shortening lifespan...). You mentioned that this card runs fairly cool. Will I need to purchase additional cooling equipment? No. I'm doing my O/C with the standard cooler, which is quite good for a single-slot job. Overclocking is perfectly safe with the right utilities. Download and install RivaTuner from Guru3D and use it to adjust your fan speed up from the woefully inadequate stock settings (where it was idling in the 70s) to a level where the noise is as loud as you can stand. I only have mine turned up to 58%, which is the highest I can set it before I can hear it over my case fans, and you'd probably want to do the same. At 100% it sounds like a blow-dryer. When overclocked to 653/1633/950 over the stock speed of 575/1438/850 at 58% fan speed, the GPU idles at 52° C and doesn't go over 60° C when playing VtMB, which is sadly the most demanding I have ATM. Modern games would be way more demanding, but GPUs are built to function at 90+° C if you can believe it, so there is really no danger of damaging it as long as you're sensible. Anything under 80° C is totally safe. The card will start to display artifacts onscreen or start to CTD when you've reached the limits of it's clockspeed, and that will usually happen well within its thermal envelope. And you don't have to operate it overclocked 24/7 like you would a CPU. Once you learn your card's limits you can put it back to its factory settings for everyday operation, open RivaTuner and overclock it before starting up your game, then return it to factory settings when you're done. So let's go over the card details, shall we? This card used to be known as the 8800GS (yes, more Nvidia turd-polishing). Basically, it's a cut-down version of the 9800GT (8800GT), which is itself a cut-down version of the 9800GTX (8800GTS 512). This 9600GSO has the same GPU as the 9800GT and the 9800GTX (the G92), only it has 96 stream processors compared to 112 for the 9800GT and 128 for the 9800GTX, and its memory bus has been cut down from 256 bits to 192 bits. It's performance is roughly equal to the 9600GT when it's been mildly overclocked, and comes close to the 9800GT when heavily (but still safely) overclocked. You can expect roughly double the performance of your 8600GTS from it. At half the cost of a 9800GT and little more than a third of the cost of a GTS 250 it's easily the best bang for the buck out there ATM. Your power supply will have no problems with it, because it only requires 26 amps on the +12v rail and one 6-pin PCIe plug. The card is 9 inches long, so if Astro can fit an 8800GTS in his Shuttle, you should have little trouble fitting it in yours. Just measure from the back of your case 9 inches towards the front and see if you run into anything. Since the card is no longer than a micro-ATX motherboard, the most likely obstruction that you're going to encounter are cables that are plugged into your motherboard, so in a worst-case scenario you'd have to buy a flat-plugged cable to fit under it. *returns to hunting down a cheap SLI motherboard* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Card has been ordered and I am installing RivaTuner right now. I really do appreciate all the work you've put in to helping me with this. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You're most welcome. Are your drivers up to date? You won't have to change them if they are. GeForce 8 and 9 cards use the same driver. If they're not up to date, then you should update them. Nvidia has made some big improvements in performance over the last few months that have been confirmed by independent users. Did you print the online receipt? You'll need a copy of it for the rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You're most welcome. Are your drivers up to date? You won't have to change them if they are. GeForce 8 and 9 cards use the same driver. If they're not up to date, then you should update them. Nvidia has made some big improvements in performance over the last few months that have been confirmed by independent users. Did you print the online receipt? You'll need a copy of it for the rebate. No printer, though I did take a screen shot so that I could print it later from another PC. I also have the email receipt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You might want to call the number on the rebate form to make sure, but the screenshot should work, as it is a copy of the original receipt. I'm just uber-paranoid about rebates, even though I've always received every one that I've ever applied for. Their whole purpose is to get people to pay full price for an item while offering the manufacturer the opportunity to get out of paying the rebate on a technicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 You might want to call the number on the rebate form to make sure, but the screenshot should work, as it is a copy of the original receipt. I'm just uber-paranoid about rebates, even though I've always received every one that I've ever applied for. Their whole purpose is to get people to pay full price for an item while offering the manufacturer the opportunity to get out of paying the rebate on a technicality. The website didn't really give me a "print receipt" option. It did tell me that I would be receiving an email, which I should print (and I intend to print at some point from another PC), but I always take screenshots as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I printed the page with the order summary as soon as my order was confirmed, and PNY accepted that. The email receipt would probably do as well, but like I said, it wouldn't hurt to call and ask just to be sure before you send it in. The number is (888)808-5931. As far as RivaTuner goes, it's installation is hardware-specific, meaning that it configures itself to your particular hardware configuration as it installs, so you'll want to install it after you've installed the new card. If you have already installed it, it's no problem; just completely uninstall it and reinstall it when you get the new card. If you do already have it installed, you can learn how to use it with your old card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Amazing stuff Q, where did you source that deal from, thats a darn good buy for $50USD(after rebate)! I really do appreciate all the work you've put in to helping me with this. Thank you. When it comes to sourcing a bargain, Q is the man @Astro: thank you, sir! No probs... thats what we set up this place for after all. It was curious for me to come across another shuttle owner here, esp one with the same model. and this is the most sensible upgrade for a computer that's approaching 3 years old, IMO. Whoa....has it really been that long. Man Im getting old Unless shuttle comes up with a high end Phenom supporting platform... my next upgrade may be to the SX58H7 which is an Intel only rig.... the shame of it. The two rigs I have that are intel have free (salvaged) or very cheap CPUs($30 for a celeron I put into a shuttle kpc for the missus recently), the thought of paying intel full price for one irks me *goes off to search soul and ponder* mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Amazing stuff Q, where did you source that deal from, thats a darn good buy for $50USD(after rebate)! Anandtech's Hot Deals forum. It's very convenient because it distills all of the exploits in the RPG of life deals found at forums like FatWallet.com and SlickDeals.com by filtering out most of the uninteresting crap and mainly featuring the deals that suit my interests such as computer hardware and electronics. Whoa....has it really been that long. Man Im getting old Unless shuttle comes up with a high end Phenom supporting platform... my next upgrade may be to the SX58H7 which is an Intel only rig.... the shame of it. The two rigs I have that are intel have free (salvaged) or very cheap CPUs($30 for a celeron I put into a shuttle kpc for the missus recently), the thought of paying intel full price for one irks me *goes off to search soul and ponder* Surely there's a DIY alternative to Shuttle? One that doesn't try to pigeon-hole you by using (*shudders*) proprietary components? (*shudders again*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Surely there's a DIY alternative to Shuttle? One that doesn't try to pigeon-hole you by using (*shudders*) proprietary components? (*shudders again*) Yes and no there As you know, the case is specially designed small form factor where everything fits in like an intricate lego set, sometimes allowing literally milimters leeway. In this instance, its no surprise that they came with their own speciallty designed PSU. Its a simple fact that shuttle PSU do their job spectacularly... eg. a 500W PSU that can run a GTX 295. If you fool around with the case and trays etc, you can fit thrid party PSUs in there, but a 500W Thermaltake etc will NOT run the GTX 295 the 500W shuttle PSU can. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Yeah, I noticed that they were high-quality units when I was searching for an amperage rating for Achilles. Active power factor correction and 80+% efficiency (I assume that it's 80+ from the fact that it has such high +12v amperage) were not the norm for OEM PSUs three years ago. Is the motherboard of a proprietary form factor as well? BTW: I just received my $40.00 rebate from PNY yesterday. Less than 2 months from the purchase date is awesomely fast for a mail-in rebate, and I didn't even mail it in right away. Achilles, if you mail in the form as soon as you get your card, you can expect your rebate check in about 6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Is the motherboard of a proprietary form factor as well? Its ALL custom/propietary. The maiboard format is called Flex-ATX IIRC, made only by/for shuttle. They are the bees knees [iMO] Whatever I may think about intel and their business policies... the SX58H7 is one fine piece of work.. Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I thought that I'd add that the price on those 9600GSOs has just fallen to $39.99 after rebate with free shipping, so I bought 2 of them to throw in the new rig that I'm building. Yes, I know that I'll have to buy an SLI motherboard and put up with one of those craptastic Nvidia chipsets, but for $80.00, I just couldn't resist, since the performance level is comparable to a GTX 260 at half the price. It ought to be a F@H monster. If I can find an Nforce 780a or 780i at a good price (I haven't made up my mind whether to go with AMD or Intel yet), I might even get a third one and blow the GTX 285 away with 288 stream processors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It ought to be a F@H monster. teamLFN will always welcome you back Q. OffTopic: Those fractal avvies of yours, they arent fractalised rude pictures are they?? I know a guy who does that, and claims he can see the original picture just as clearly.... I'd dismiss him as an idiot were he not a PhD in mathematics Here is a julia fractal he showed me once, the original of which would have me banned in about 3 seconds flat. In its current form, its quite pretty mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Nope, no hidden pr0n. I believe that both of the ones that I've used are, um, religious in nature, actually. EDIT: HAHA! I found a motherboard! nice bit o kit indeed Q. To grab one of those down here is near $400AUD mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 For Core i7 mainboard, I'm considering Gigabyte's GA-EX58-UD4P and Asus P6T. Anybody want to offer opinions on which board would be the better choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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