Darth Avlectus Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Okay. Pretty much what I thought your position was. Yeah, such is true for much when you learn to "see" it--violence included. It seems like U.S.A. isn't the only society to do that either, for that matter. Maybe just my opinion, though. Still, it just seems like this is a problem everywhere these days. UFC is *mild* compared to its earlier days. Just watch some of those. I believe none other than John McCain has openly criticized them for the brutality even if it wasn't mainstream yet. Have you ever seen old martial arts competitions? How about old pre-WWII films of kendo competitions? While it was all in the motto of "end conflict fast", I'd say it's more civilized today than back then. Russians also don't believe in limitations on police force--no such thing as "excessive force". While this is hardly glorification, it is a mode of making it to be more 'normal'. I think that violence is glorified everywhere, or at least it happens so much that general populations are conditioned to it. @Jae, I agree it's possible to value the military as a good thing, and admire the 'effectiveness' of their tactics (all feelings and ethics aside) while despising those tactics themselves and their results from an ethical standpoint. Good clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think that violence is glorified everywhere, or at least it happens so much that general populations are conditioned to it.While I agree that this is true, I also think that the U.S. bears a unique role considering that so much of our "culture" is exported. If Americans were giving up coca-cola, levi's, and Mickey D's for whatever the equivalent is in Russia, I think we could argue that the relationship is reciprocal. My 2 cents again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Russians also don't believe in limitations on police force--no such thing as "excessive force". Really? I'll believe you once we are alowed to believe what we want regarding our police without having said police knocking at our door the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Honestly if you expect the Army to give a more accurate picture of what the Army really is, it isn't ever going to happen. Who would want to play a game where you wake up muster for duty, spend a few hours standing watch with nothing going on, do drills, march, and stand around whining about being bored. Then you get the joy of driving a humvee with a couple of officers in it across the base. Then you get to wash said humvee. Clean dust filters, clean weapons, clean the barracks, clean more stuff, and pretty well do nothing for months. It is a smart idea to get people interested in the Army. It should not however be the sole deciding factor in whether a person joins. Anyone that decides to do something based solely on a video game is a fool. However it may get someone interested in talking to a recruiter. On a somewhat related note, everyone I have ever met that served came out a better person. Not saying that nobody comes out worse, it is just that I haven't seen anyone who came out a worse person than when they went in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 While I agree that this is true, I also think that the U.S. bears a unique role considering that so much of our "culture" is exported. If Americans were giving up coca-cola, levi's, and Mickey D's for whatever the equivalent is in Russia, I think we could argue that the relationship is reciprocal. My 2 cents again. Fair enough example. So you're implying that we exert significant influence? As-is, though...I cannot be totally sure. After all, violence is kind of a universal truth regardless, is it not? Besides, I thought we've gone from the envy of the world to the most despised? I think I generally get what you're saying, being that we're an economic superpower (if not *the* economic superpower), that more of what we do here gets out to the rest of the world than we realize. So if that BackYard Wrestling audition tape I made awhile ago were to leak on youtube or be sold--potentially I could be setting a bad example for the emulative natured youth in the rest of the world OF America? Really? I'll believe you once we are alowed to believe what we want regarding our police without having said police knocking at our door the next day. Well, then I stand corrected, I guess they do believe in it...however their interpretations of excessive are different from what US police (or at least the regulating laws thereof) consider excessive. (Though I certainly wouldn't put it past our cops to hold a resistant suspect in place while one of them jump-kicked him in the head--given the chance in the right circumstances). Certainly, though, make me more privy...that is if you won't get in trouble for it. Honestly if you expect the Army to give a more accurate picture of what the Army really is, it isn't ever going to happen. This is true. Who would want to play a game where you wake up muster for duty, spend a few hours standing watch with nothing going on, do drills, march, and stand around whining about being bored. Then you get the joy of driving a humvee with a couple of officers in it across the base. Then you get to wash said humvee. Clean dust filters, clean weapons, clean the barracks, clean more stuff, and pretty well do nothing for months. It is a smart idea to get people interested in the Army. It should not however be the sole deciding factor in whether a person joins. Anyone that decides to do something based solely on a video game is a fool. However it may get someone interested in talking to a recruiter. Agreed. Pretty much what Jedi Athos said. Yeah, doing serious things because of a video game is pretty damn foolish. If it were completely honest (or any other industry were, come to think of it) probably nothing would sell, and nobody would join. On a somewhat related note, everyone I have ever met that served came out a better person. Not saying that nobody comes out worse, it is just that I haven't seen anyone who came out a worse person than when they went in. Character wise, most I know have come out better. I'd wager that it kind of depends on the individual, circumstances prior to and during service, and a number of other factors. The majority of the time, though, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Fair enough example. So you're implying that we exert significant influence? I think the evidence would support that, yes. As-is, though...I cannot be totally sure. After all, violence is kind of a universal truth regardless, is it not?Universal truth in what regard? I'm not arguing the U.S. or our culture is the source of violence. I do think that we take violence and place a value on it that may or may not be more significant than what's seen in other cultures, but is arguably excessive for a society that as advanced as we like to think ours is. Besides, I thought we've gone from the envy of the world to the most despised?Anything I said here would simply be guessing. Like any other society, we have our pluses and our minuses. I think other countries would put different things in those columns to varying degrees. I think I generally get what you're saying, being that we're an economic superpower (if not *the* economic superpower), that more of what we do here gets out to the rest of the world than we realize.Not for much longer. So if that BackYard Wrestling audition tape I made awhile ago were to leak on youtube or be sold--potentially I could be setting a bad example for the emulative natured youth in the rest of the world OF America?Yep. Suppose one day you had a son. Do you think that if he ever saw that, it would influence his idea of what it is to be a man? The father/son dynamic is a powerful one, but this could apply to any young person who saw the tape, anywhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well as violent as our media is, we're really pretty good about violence in the real world. I mean it's not like we riot every time our team loses a football game(or wins one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think the evidence would support that, yes. Universal truth in what regard? I'm not arguing the U.S. or our culture is the source of violence. I do think that we take violence and place a value on it that may or may not be more significant than what's seen in other cultures, but is arguably excessive for a society that as advanced as we like to think ours is. I said kind of... Well, okay. Just wanting to make sure we're connecting. Regardless how advanced a society is, it just seems like some violence of some sort would be inevitable--just saying. Still in the here and now, it is glorified quite a bit, true. Anything I said here would simply be guessing. Like any other society, we have our pluses and our minuses. I think other countries would put different things in those columns to varying degrees. Hmm. Subjective perhaps (In that it depends on who looks upon us in that regard)? Not for much longer. Hence why I said what I did in falling to most despised--though I could be subconsciously exaggerating that, I suppose. Yep. Suppose one day you had a son. Do you think that if he ever saw that, it would influence his idea of what it is to be a man? The father/son dynamic is a powerful one, but this could apply to any young person who saw the tape, anywhere in the world. Hmm. Well I guess influential potential is there then. @ parental issue: Everything has to be taken into account. Which is why sweeping it under the rug is not the best policy. Honesty on every issue. True, there are times where revealing certain things may not be the best policy, but eventually it'll have to come out. In general: that was in the back of my mind. So I guess influence exerted is there whether we like it or not. There's the immediate level and then there's the bigger picture. EDIT: And in a ditch attempt to steer back on course (thank you Achillies for your indulgence), It is especially important that parents level with their kids on military service. Mine encouraged me to do my homework on it. Another reason I didn't enlist aside from suspicion of their intent for me, was due to my parents; aging--they had me at a fair age. However, my father's disability is part of several factors in his currently worsening condition nearing retirement age. My mother, well, she's just working herself to death. Without me to come over and do grunt work and heavy lifting, it would be a hardship on the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blix Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Too bad for the Army that I'm not into Medal of Honor, or any of the Next-Gen War Games. I would be a valuable asset in the squared circle though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Too bad for the Army that I'm not into Medal of Honor, or any of the Next-Gen War Games. I would be a valuable asset in the squared circle though Yeah, too bad for them. Hey, I just hope you know what you're getting yourself into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blix Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yeah, too bad for them. Hey, I just hope you know what you're getting yourself into. I've danced with the Wind Fish before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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