EndSub Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Vader May be slower.......But he has gotta be more powerful force wise to maul.... "Try and get me with that lightsaber....I am Way to agile for you!!!!" *Force Choke* "Punk kids......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 I say that Maul would win, if and only IF, Vader stayed on the good side of the force. But because we all know that stupid Anakin joins the dark side he gains emense powers allowing him to, for example, choke people apon site. But does anyone know if Maul has the same powers or greater ones? Im staying with Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Some people seem to forget that an ageing man like Obi-Wan Kenobi (not the fastest in the world, mind you) took on Vader and held his own. He WILLINGLY got struck down. So I'd say Vader could take on Maul anyday. It's not about speed when the Force is involved.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Good popint Leon but I still find it very Ironic. Vader gets gui-gon killed because Qui-Gons fighting maul then Obi Wan kills Maul, then Vader kills Obi Wan. I think we need a physciatrist here. Very complex family issues. But I guess thats what makes it interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tie Guy Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Originally posted by Paragon_Leon It's not about speed when the Force is involved.. I beg to differ. It is about speed. Most all melee weapon fighting is. Brute stength doesn't help you in saber fighting as much as speed does. It a match of strength vs. speed, i'd choose speed anyday. Yes I can imagine it easily...He is the most powerful Jedi you know Who says Vader is hindered by his robotic form???You can almost say he is BETTER!!! He doesn't care if someone is able to take off a hand...He cann't feel it he just swings that saber into their gut and kills 'em. It may make him stronger, but it wouldn't make him faster, quite the opposite. And, as i said before, speed is the better quality in a saber fight. Now, Vader could probably kill Maul in a fist fight, but thats not what we were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boba Rhett Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Ummm.. have you ever seen ESB? Speed is definately not the most important thing. You may be able to run at me faster and jump around but if I grip your neck, your not going anywere and I'm going to walk over and cut ya in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 But brute force isn't it either Rhett. Vader may be able to choke you but if you have speed you can easily sounter attack it. And in ESB did you ever see Vader choke a Jedi? Didnt think so. So how could he choke a sith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tie Guy Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Originally posted by Boba Rhett Ummm.. have you ever seen ESB? Speed is definately not the most important thing. You may be able to run at me faster and jump around but if I grip your neck, your not going anywere and I'm going to walk over and cut ya in half. As fergie said, any Jedi can black force choke. You ever wonder why vader didn't try to choke Obi-Wan in ANH, or Luke in ESB or ROTJ? It was because he couldn't. They don't work on otehr jedi, just like it is hard to grab a Jedi's lightsaber out of his hands with the force. BTW i never said speed was the most important thing, but it is much more important than brute strength. Also, what does ESB have aything to do with speed, i didn't see Vader win a saber battle by choking his enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boba Rhett Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 I just offered choke as an example. ESB has something to do with it because Luke was faster than Vader yet he still got the crap kicked out of him because Vader used the force to pummel him with things. The reason Yoda and the Emperor don't use lightsabers is because they don't need to, even if they were attacked with a saber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 I think a better way of putting it is; the force is speed. I still think Maul would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest isthisfor_real Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 It was a no doubter when I saw someone with a darth maul photo that they would think that maul would win. Maul is older than Vader so dont call Vader anceint!!! Also about the throwing lightsaber part at luke telling him he will meet his destiny that is not how it happened. Luke said he would not fight Vader and Vader swung at him saying it is unwise to lower your defences but you skipped the next part when luke says you thoughts betray you father. I can feel the conflict within you that is why you could not kill me and that is why you can not kill me now. Luke was undermatched in ESB but Vader just did not wish to kill his son. Luke was not a padawan in RTOJ either at the beginning his freinds call him him a jedi knight and in the message to Jabba he also calls himself a jedi knight. Yoda also says all he has to do is confront Vader to be a Jedi. He stops after beating Vader telling the Emperor that he is a jedi like his father before him. Even the emperor pay him respects by saying young fool only in the end do you understand. With all that I would have to say Luke was a jedi knight but an argument can be made that Obi-wan was ready to take the trails and become one of the great Jedi when he defeated Maul. The technology of today is why maul seems faster did you not see the in a New Hope how bad the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader was they only moved a couple of steps and in ESB Vader is a complety different person regarding movement. Vader is cooler than Maul period! Mual silence is not as cool as Vader dominance. "I find you lack of faith disturbing" ,"I am altering the deal pray further that I do not alter it anymore",and"Do not fail me again......Admiral" . Maul looks dorky when the sheild wall closes and he checks to see if he can hit Qui-Gon. And as I like to look at it Obi Wan defeats Maul Vader defeats a fully trained Obi Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Obi-Wan could have easily won! He gave himself up willingly because he new his time was near anyways and if he gave himself up he would strengthen luke. So no vader didnt defeat Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan defeated Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Originally posted by Tirion *Nexsis* "Who ever made this thread was genius...major disscussion here...I havn't typed this much since... " Thanks bro =P I asked for everybody's opinions and there is no real answer to this debate, which is what makes this fun, but I can not help but roll my eyes Fergie when I read your replies. First off, you know I LOVES YA as a brother and you are a Nexsis Recruit, but it makes me laugh that you throw away cold hard facts that Tie Guy has thrown at you only for you to ignore it because it crushed your reasons as to why you thought Vader would win, while all the time you throw those same facts that you dismissed back at us your reasoning =P What are the facts? Maul looks faster??? LOOKS key word Machine makes him slower??? Maybe our machines might make him slower, but this is much more advanced technology than ours so that is another opinion...And also who says he won't use the force to speed him up...Maul does it all the time... Maul has more fighting ability??? Another opinion... Maul has a double-bladed lightsaber??? Like that made a difference to Obi-One... *WACK* right in half... If you cut it he would have two though??? It depends on where you cut it. It you were lucky it would be right in half...but what if he had cut it closer to the hilt and it cut off the wires from the powerpack... All in all...the only fact that isn't questionable is Vader has more Midiclorians than ever charted. That equals raw power...he had years apon years of experiance killing Jedi Knights and Masters after the fall of the Old Republic. Raw-Power + Great experiance= Perfection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord Tirion Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 *Hands The Fergster some glasses* Read my breakdown on who Maul defeated and why and who Vader lost too and why and those are your facts my friend. isthisfor_real: "Maul is older than Vader so dont call Vader anceint!!!" Um, whats that got to do with anything? When did I say that Vader would lose because he is ancient?? "Luke was undermatched in ESB but Vader just did not wish to kill his son." You just proved why Maul would win right there. That scene in which you say that Vader did not even wish to kill Luke was in fact the only 'win" we ever saw Vader win. And now you just downplayed it. So much for backing up Vader. Luke wasa noob so to say. It was his first time with a saber in a fight and now he was going up against a Sith Lord... hmm.. I wonder why Vader "won" this one... "Luke was not a padawan in RTOJ either at the beginning his freinds call him him a jedi knight and in the message to Jabba he also calls himself a jedi knight. Yoda also says all he has to do is confront Vader to be a Jedi." And what does that tell you? That tells you that Vader was BEATEN by a noob who did not even have Jedi status! So what if Luke and his friends say that he is a Jedi Knight? That means squat the moment Yoda says that he is NOT a Jedi Knight and WONT be UNTIL he defeats Vader. So Vader got beat by a force sensative person and nothing more. "Even the emperor pay him respects by saying young fool only in the end do you understand." He pays him respects? By what, frying him like a Mcdonalds hamburger?? If anything, he mocks him. Since you are the one quoting lines.. I might as well too.. "So be it, Jedi". He said that sarcastically, not seriously. "With all that I would have to say Luke was a jedi knight but an argument can be made that Obi-wan was ready to take the trails and become one of the great Jedi when he defeated Maul." Obi Wan lost. Plain and simple. Maul not only defeated him, BUT defeated Qui-Gon as well, only the best saber handler of all Jedi. Yet nobody gives Maul his due. Maul only lost because he was filled with cockiness after defeating two Jedi at once, finally forfilling his revenge for the Jedi defeating the Sith long ago in the Jedi/Sith wars. "The technology of today is why maul seems faster did you not see the in a New Hope how bad the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader was they only moved a couple of steps and in ESB Vader is a complety different person regarding movement." Cop-out excuse right there. Have you not read any of the posts previous to that? That is the line all the Vader fan boys fall back on because THEY KNOW that Maul would wipe the floor with Vader in a duel. And the time period has nothing to do with it. Didnt you watch the old Kung-Fu movies as a kid? They were made BEFORE Star Wars so please dont give us the pity statement that Vader was slow because of when the movie was made. It just dont fly. "Vader is cooler than Maul period!" THANK YOUR FOR JUST SHOWING US WHY YOU THINK VADER WOULD WIN. That statement right there shows us exactly why you think Vader would win, simply because he was cool... Let me tell you something, if Vader had the appearance of Jar Jar Binks, something tells me almost 95 percent of you Vader Fan Boys would be jumping ship over to Maul.. tell me if I am wrong. Be honest and think about it. "Obi Wan defeats Maul" Sorry, wrong again. Maul won. As far as I saw, it was Obi Wan hanging on for dear life. The only reason he survived was because Maul was living the moment of victory. Period. "Vader defeats a fully trained Obi Wan" Wrong again. You call Obi-Wan letting himself be killed a win for Vader? My how desparate are the Vader fans to cling on to that as a victory for their almight Dark Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 "Luke was undermatched in ESB but Vader just did not wish to kill his son." You just proved why Maul would win right there. That scene in which you say that Vader did not even wish to kill Luke was in fact the only 'win" we ever saw Vader win. And now you just downplayed it. So much for backing up Vader. Luke wasa noob so to say. It was his first time with a saber in a fight and now he was going up against a Sith Lord... hmm.. I wonder why Vader "won" this one... That we saw in the movies. You must remeber once agin that Vader purged the Galaxy of the Jedi. He hunterd down and destroyed them. And so far as we know 2 escaped...that is all "Luke was not a padawan in RTOJ either at the beginning his freinds call him him a jedi knight and in the message to Jabba he also calls himself a jedi knight. Yoda also says all he has to do is confront Vader to be a Jedi." And what does that tell you? That tells you that Vader was BEATEN by a noob who did not even have Jedi status! So what if Luke and his friends say that he is a Jedi Knight? That means squat the moment Yoda says that he is NOT a Jedi Knight and WONT be UNTIL he defeats Vader. So Vader got beat by a force sensative person and nothing more. Luke has as much or MORE midiclorians than his father!!! They were passed down to his son. Plus Vader didn't want to kill his own son and held back. "With all that I would have to say Luke was a jedi knight but an argument can be made that Obi-wan was ready to take the trails and become one of the great Jedi when he defeated Maul." Obi Wan lost. Plain and simple. Maul not only defeated him, BUT defeated Qui-Gon as well, only the best saber handler of all Jedi. Yet nobody gives Maul his due. Maul only lost because he was filled with cockiness after defeating two Jedi at once, finally forfilling his revenge for the Jedi defeating the Sith long ago in the Jedi/Sith wars. Cockiness is a part of battle. You cann't help that. If you get cocky it is your fault. You cann't say that he COULD have won if he hadn't done that. "The technology of today is why maul seems faster did you not see the in a New Hope how bad the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader was they only moved a couple of steps and in ESB Vader is a complety different person regarding movement." Cop-out excuse right there. Have you not read any of the posts previous to that? That is the line all the Vader fan boys fall back on because THEY KNOW that Maul would wipe the floor with Vader in a duel. And the time period has nothing to do with it. Didnt you watch the old Kung-Fu movies as a kid? They were made BEFORE Star Wars so please dont give us the pity statement that Vader was slow because of when the movie was made. It just dont fly. and that is Maul supporters Cop-out excuse right there... "Obi Wan defeats Maul" Sorry, wrong again. Maul won. As far as I saw, it was Obi Wan hanging on for dear life. The only reason he survived was because Maul was living the moment of victory. Period. yes he was in the moment of victory...AND LOST!!! He hadn't completed his victory. so it WASN'T a victory!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest www.Usuck.viper Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 it was only half a victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffdark Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 y would vader fight maul NEways? And i think that, since the "vader series" was filmed..oh 20 years ago, the fights scenes wern't as fast paced..so, it's really hard to judge. I perfer vaders fighting style in Emipre:) i like his huge hard swings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 whoa those are some long posts. You both broke down those posts excellently and I think you've both just recieved my vote (if I can vote for more than one person) for senate. Oh and Maul did win in a sense and he lost in a sense, because Qui-Gon died he won but because he died he lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest isthisfor_real Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Tirion *Nexsis*: "Maul is older than Vader so dont call Vader anceint!!!" "Um, whats that got to do with anything? When did I say that Vader would lose because he is ancient?? " Did I say tririon stop calling Vader ancient. No I dont want to look it up but you can, with the glasses you just handed Fergster and I'll even tell you what to look for, someone was saying that Vader is ancient and he moves slow and maul is younger and faster also it might actually have been you that who said it. "Luke was undermatched in ESB but Vader just did not wish to kill his son." "You just proved why Maul would win right there. That scene in which you say that Vader did not even wish to kill Luke was in fact the only 'win" we ever saw Vader win. And now you just downplayed it. So much for backing up Vader. Luke wasa noob so to say. It was his first time with a saber in a fight and now he was going up against a Sith Lord... hmm.. I wonder why Vader "won" this one..." Look if you wish to grab meanings with my sentences how does Vader not wanting to kill his son allow Maul to win? Also I wished and assumed too much that you guys would have seen the movie a few times. Vader wanted to train Luke so he and Luke would overthrow the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke was undermatched to the Lord of Sith as many are including Maul. I mean he and the emperor were known for hunting and killing all the Jedi wouldnt just the emperor be known if Vader did not kill at least a few so we DO know that Vader won other battles. Vader toyed with Luke the whole time and Luke is the person that the emperor has forseen to overthrow him. "Luke was not a padawan in RTOJ either at the beginning his freinds call him him a jedi knight and in the message to Jabba he also calls himself a jedi knight. Yoda also says all he has to do is confront Vader to be a Jedi." "And what does that tell you? That tells you that Vader was BEATEN by a noob who did not even have Jedi status! So what if Luke and his friends say that he is a Jedi Knight? That means squat the moment Yoda says that he is NOT a Jedi Knight and WONT be UNTIL he defeats Vader. So Vader got beat by a force sensative person and nothing more." No Yoda said you must confront Vader he NEVER said defeat him and Luke did confront him and when Luke cuts off Vader's hand he sees that he is becoming Vader by looking at his own roboctic hand then he knows that the emperor was turning him to the darkside and he didn't give in. That is what Yoda meant by you must confront Vader and that is when he tells the emperor that he is a Jedi Knight not a force sensitive person. You want facts Maul looking faster than Vader is not a fact but Luke becoming a Jedi is a fact and the emperor knew it because he said only in the end do you understand. The movie was called Return of the Jedi do you think maybe they meant Vader? Myself I dont know who the Jedi is but if you want to argue that it was Yoda or something go ahead. "With all that I would have to say Luke was a jedi knight but an argument can be made that Obi-wan was ready to take the trails and become one of the great Jedi when he defeated Maul." "Obi Wan lost. Plain and simple. Maul not only defeated him, BUT defeated Qui-Gon as well, only the best saber handler of all Jedi. Yet nobody gives Maul his due. Maul only lost because he was filled with cockiness after defeating two Jedi at once, finally forfilling his revenge for the Jedi defeating the Sith long ago in the Jedi/Sith wars. " Maul lost cause he was the one falling down cut in two. But any way what happened was Obi-Wan was hanging on "something" and Maul could not reach down with his saber because Obi-Wan was too far down that is why Maul was upset and making sparks with his lightsaber to desperatly make Obi-Wan fall. The technology of today is why maul seems faster did you not see the in a New Hope how bad the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader was they only moved a couple of steps and in ESB Vader is a complety different person regarding movement." "Cop-out excuse right there. Have you not read any of the posts previous to that? That is the line all the Vader fan boys fall back on because THEY KNOW that Maul would wipe the floor with Vader in a duel. And the time period has nothing to do with it. Didnt you watch the old Kung-Fu movies as a kid? They were made BEFORE Star Wars so please dont give us the pity statement that Vader was slow because of when the movie was made. It just dont fly." George was one broke moth back then (one good movie before Star Wars) and he is one rich moth right now. End of story "Vader is cooler than Maul period!" "THANK YOUR FOR JUST SHOWING US WHY YOU THINK VADER WOULD WIN. That statement right there shows us exactly why you think Vader would win, simply because he was cool... Let me tell you something, if Vader had the appearance of Jar Jar Binks, something tells me almost 95 percent of you Vader Fan Boys would be jumping ship over to Maul.. tell me if I am wrong. Be honest and think about it." I was going to mention in my post what if Maul looked like a ewok but decided against because I called Vader cool! Vader looks is hardly what I like about him when he altered the deal with Lando and "accepted" Captain Needa apology is what makes him great. Vader would of kicked the saber Obi-Wan struck Maul with and he would of saw Obi-Wan looking at it and thought ahead reaching out with the force. I can see his punchline now as he kicks the saber off "You will not need this.....anymore" "Obi Wan defeats Maul" Sorry, wrong again. Maul won. As far as I saw, it was Obi Wan hanging on for dear life. The only reason he survived was because Maul was living the moment of victory. Period. "Vader defeats a fully trained Obi Wan" Wrong again. You call Obi-Wan letting himself be killed a win for Vader? My how desparate are the Vader fans to cling on to that as a victory for their almight Dark Lord" As I said Maul was the one falling in two peices Obi Wan could not have won!! Just think of what Vader told Obi Wan when he first saw him "The Circle is Complete" Obi Wan did hide in the desert and Yoda in the swamp all these years you know from fear of a Dark Lord hunting them down. Obi was able to help Luke by losing that is why he accepted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Ahh stop it. It gets annoying when people do that just to get there post count up. I can read you know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest www.Usuck.viper Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 darth sideous and the emperor are stronger then both of them end of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest isthisfor_real Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 I would not write all that for a post! Darth ferg just finished before me thats all. Did you say that for a post count for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 Originally posted by jeffdark y would vader fight maul NEways? And i think that, since the "vader series" was filmed..oh 20 years ago, the fights scenes wern't as fast paced..so, it's really hard to judge. I perfer vaders fighting style in Emipre:) i like his huge hard swings Well they do fight...in SW Tales #9...it just came out...HAlf of the comic is MAul vs. Vader...really cool. But the make Maul too powerful:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord Tirion Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 LOL You people make me bang my head so hard on my pooter desk trying to have an intelligent debate with you guys Is it me or are they just throwing the same replies at me and Tie Guy after we each systematically proved their theories wrong? I am STILL getting "the film was made 20 years before" and "Luke was a Jedi Knight" theories thrown at me. I really hope you guys are reading my posts and COMPREHENDING what I am saying or you are just skimming through them just to rush ahead and make another post to defend yourself. If that is the case, then I consider my case won. I have not received one counter-debate debunking Tie Guy's or my own break downs of your reasons yet. Instead, im getting the same repititious replies =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luke Skywalker Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 Uhh we need to move this to the newly formed pointless forum. Oh and Trion who do you think would win? Ive gotten lost in all the pointlessness of this pointless forum. Well it didnt start out pointless but now it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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