When will we see new weapons

[Vader's Apprentice]

Personally its a bit boring seeing old weapons look new. The only good weapon Ive seen so far is the lightsaber in turn off mode, plus a gun that looks like the Super Shotgun in Quake 2 but then ithought is this a upgrade of the classic stormtrooper rifle made to look powerful. Lucasarts should for once put a opinion poll for new weapons - and another thing whats with the *No Dangerous weapons* option in Multiplayer configuration on JEDI KNIGHT its a bit stupid because even when your saber is on a blaster bolt could be the end of you.

[Vader's Apprentice]

cOME ON SOME ONE READ IT - please!!!!!!!!!!!

[elite_man2002]

me too i'd love new weapons i liked it when i got MotS cuase it hade a lot of new weapons

[StormHammer]

Personally, I would like to see a greater variety of weapons available for pickup in JK2. However, I don't think you should be able to cart around an unlimited number of weapons or ammo.

 

I think the system Raven used in Soldier Of Fortune was more acceptable - you could pick up a certain number of weapons, but if you wanted even more, you had to drop some of those you already had.

 

I found this system did not detract from the gameplay in any way, and indeed, it made the game more challenging. For example, on some levels the ammunition for a certain type of weapon was limited - so it was often better to swap to a weapon for which there was more ammo available.

 

I think this could add a new dimension to JK2 - expanding your choice of weapons, while limiting your final arsenal to a more realistic level.

[C.H.A.S.]

Mabey in multiplayer the skin would matter on how many weapons you can carry. Like a wookie could carry five but a human could only carry 3.

[Guest ZeroXcape]

StormHammer: A very Counter-Strikistic approach. I love that idea..

[Guest Kurgan]

Hmm, so maybe I could carry two lightsabers after all, but I'd have to drop the concussion rifle...

 

I could get used to that!

 

I kind of liked how in JK though that dropped backpacks contained ALL your weapons, not just the one you were holding when you died. How'se that for an FPS strategy? Switch to the weakest weapon the second before you get killed. ; )

 

However one thing I would like to say about realism, there's no reason why holding a certain gun should slow down your movement realism-wise.. after all, you're "Carrying it in your backpack" so it should slow you down period if you have it. But then games don't have to be perfectly realistic, do they? Long as it's fun and balanced.

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

[StormHammer]

Yeah, I don't think weight is the issue - I mean, Kyle can use the Force to sustain him physically. But there is the issue of where do you put all these weapons? Even with a backpack, there is only so much room, and larger weapons probably would not fit. You'd have to sling them over your shoulder.

 

I'm not a stickler for realism, but I do think it seriously stretches the bounds of possibility to cart around the number of weapons we usually see in an FPS.

 

If you consider the number of weapons we saw in Jedi Knight...

 

Lightsaber

Bryar Pistol

Stormtrooper Rifle

Bowcaster

Imperial Repeater rifle

Rail Detonator

Concussion Rifle

 

You have 5 medium-large weapons in that line-up that I would argue would not fit in a backpack. Perhaps it would have been more interesting if you had one slot for either a Bowcaster or an Imperial Repeater, or maybe a choice between the Rail and the Conc. That would have limited your choice to 3 medium-large weapons, which I think is probably more than enough. I mean, his name's Kyle, not Rambo.

 

Personally I'd also prefer to see better limitations on the quantity of ammo you can carry - or perhaps show certain types of ammo on bandoliers, like rail detonator charges. It's only a small change, but often the attention to detail can improve the gaming experience.

 

I wonder if they've considered actually showing the weapons you are carrying on the character model in 3rd person, a la Rune?

 

Just a thought.

[wardz]

The only weapon I would be bothered about not seeing when you are using it is the saber. I want it to be holstered on your belt and when you run it should be moving aswell.

 

having too many weapons on your back makes it look clumsy

 

wardz

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by wardz:

<STRONG>The only weapon I would be bothered about not seeing when you are using it is the saber. I want it to be holstered on your belt and when you run it should be moving aswell.

 

having too many weapons on your back makes it look clumsy

 

wardz</STRONG>

 

I agree about the lightsaber. And as for all those weapons looking clumsy, well, basically that was my point. How many weapons can you realistically carry before they become a hindrance to your movements?

 

I mean, if I was to take it to the extreme of realism, I could argue that Kyle shouldn't be carrying any heavy weapons during a lightsaber duel with some Dark Jedi, which would fall in line with the movies. I mean, I get the impression the Dark Jedi won't be that affected by conventional weaponry anyway. Whether duelling without heavy weapons would be fun or not is a totally different issue, I know, and I'm not saying it should happen.

 

In terms of new weapons, well, I think this has been discussed in depth before, but I'd like to see some access to other familiar Star Wars weapons, including those from the EU, along with some more alien type weapons a la Half-Life.

 

How about a small droid-bomb that scuttles after it's target and zeros in then explodes?

 

Any other ideas?

[Guest Krayt Tion]

The old 'Magic Purse of Weapons, With Deeeep Pockets' has been with us for ages. Many people probably stumbled upon this fact after the original DooM, some even earlier. Whenever the coolness factor of shooting your first gun in a computer game wears off you might stop and wonder how you truck around gear only fit for an elephant to carry.

 

Practical solutions? Find some way to explain how it ties in with the universe ala Elite Force, or just bump the believability up a notch by limiting your carrying capacity in one way or another.

 

Cstrike, DoD, these are the kind of multiplayer games I've been playing. Both of these games have some added believability but are still a far cry from any real simulator. I haven't touched any pure deathmatch for a long whiles. I prefer a more calculated style of play with more believablity at the same time.

 

I for one could get used to a limited weapon carrying capacity in JK2 quite easily.

[wardz]

Sorry Stormhammer, didn't mean to reiterate what you've already said.

 

I agree with K-Ti and just to add to that, I think it would be beneficial for gameplay as it makes you think. I have often criticised some people for just carrying around every weapon in sight which then enables them to nuke everyone as it suits them.

 

By limiting the amount you can carry (in MP) or have it class based where Jedi's can only use the lightsaber and one weapon (or something like that), makes you think before ammo grabbing.

 

wardz

[Boba Jim]

Oh Geeze....Don't go asking Raven to ruin a perfectly good game because it needs to be more realistic. I want more stuff to do and interact with, not more realism in carrying capacity and other silly stuff. This is supposed to be a first person shooter, not Sim Jedi. If you want everything realistic I suppose you're prepared for all of it.

 

A. After you die in a multiplayer game, you are out of that game for good. (You're dead afterall)

 

B. After several shots, you have to disassemble your weapon and clean it or have constant jams.

 

C. You trip over your shoelaces when force running.

 

D. Your health level constantly drops until your exausted and have to take a nap. (No magic power ups.)

 

E. Heavy weapons make you aim poorly because there so darn heavy.

 

F. Your trigger finger gets blistered forcing you to stop for a band-aid.

 

G. Sweat keeps falling in your eyes clouding your vision.

 

H. After moving through water you get a nasty personal itch forcing you to find a safe place to scratch.

 

I. Your saber ignites in its holder, slicing your toes off, when it is hit by flying debris.

 

J. Your player goes stir crazy from running around in these confined maps with no apparent way out.

 

I know there's more. I just can't think of them right now.

[ayfex_twinFC]

what gonk droid just said

it's true you know...

 

why not just show the weapon used last on kyle's back?

[StormHammer]

wardz...hey, no problem.

 

Gonk Droid...LOL!

 

I totally agree that Jedi Outcast should not turn into Sim Jedi, and gameplay should come before realism every time.

 

However, there's always room for the small, incidental touches - that final polish - that can turn a very good game into a great game. Showing some weapons on your character and limiting your arsenal slightly are just a small step down the road to realism, and may be worthwhile.

 

Using the GHOUL 2 system, bolting on actual weapons to your character model should certainly be possible, and would certainly rectify the invisible weapon syndrome we usually accept as standard in games with a 3rd person view.

 

Incidentally, if it were not for the 3rd person mode, I wouldn't even have mentioned it - but I did play JK in 3rd person all the way through a couple of times, and it was just one of those little annoying discrepancies that popped into my head while playing.

 

At the end of the day, Raven will decide what features are best suited to the gameplay, and those features that are redundant will be axed. That's fine by me, because at the end of the day I just want the best gameplay possible from this game.

[Boba Jim]

If you haven't played Elite Force yet, do it. Lots of good ideas in there that will no doubt find their way into JO. They will almost certainly include something like the specialties mode of play where each player must select a class and then they only have one or two weapons to choose from but they will have special powers of tools for that class as well. That woiuld translate easily to JO with Jedi having sabers and certain force powers, Bounty hunters having strong weapons and armor, scouts having weak weapons but incredible speed etc. They'll make it work, but specialties will be an option to alter the regular mode of play where the usual weapons and items are laying around to be picked up. Classes and specialties will be there in one form or another.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Gonk Droid. I was very careful to distance my post at least from the blantant extremes you mentioned. That list isn't even remotely applicable to what I mentioned. No need to cry UberSim when some some slight tweakings are suggested. I guess some people are always worried that there is some secret realistic-conversion conspiracy going on... but no one is doubting the good gaming fundamentals of solid gameplay here.

 

Btw, you don't have to have played EF to get an idea of what classes or "specialities" can bring to the table. MotS (Mysteries of the Sith) personalities were a fine attempt at this. I am personally hoping they something similar in JKO, with some tweaking.

[Boba Jim]

I disagree. Limiting the weapons a player can carry for "realism" is at least as extreem as most of what I listed above. (maybe with the exception of the butt scratchin thing.)

What I was getting at is that your limited carrying capacity issue has already been dealt with in Elite Force by adding a true specialties mode where pickups were not available. That was signifigantly different from MOTS.

There are plenty of good ideas out there for alternate forms of gameplay, but in the main game, let's not loose track of fun and playability when you're talking about believability factors & "realism".

 

If you have a hard time with a FPS player carrying around all those weapons in a pack, but lightsabers and force powers are perfectly beleivable...well I've got some really good land to sell ya. It's right on top of an old Jedi temple.

 

[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: Gonk Droid ]

[Tre Lightshadow]

Hahahaha. Ultra realism!!! You have to stop to go to the bathroom or you slow down cuz it hurts to run and/or wet your pants.

[Guest Kurgan]

Yeah, and if you wet your pants, it lowers your morale, and your aim and stamina suffer.

 

Sounds like a lot of fun... ; )

 

Well maybe we can limit your backpack, but have "force carry weapons." For a small fee (like say 5% of your mana, ie: you'd start with 5% less than somebody without the ability) you could carry a lot more stuff by "levitating it" or something.

 

Or maybe you could have a "pack animal" that carries your gear for you or something. In MP, there are "weapon carriers" players who do nothing but run around and carry weapons for the knight characters. Like a squire, yeah...

 

Or how about a shrink ray! Miniature TARDIS?

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

[StormHammer]

Kurgan...ROFL Nice one.

 

However, I don't see why limiting your arsenal is that big a deal. After all, I'm assuming you have a ship to which you will return between missions, so you can swap out weapons you don't like for those you do. I thought the system of tooling up for a mission worked well in Soldier Of Fortune, and didn't detract from the gameplay in the slightest. It just made a few levels slightly more challenging due to low ammo stocks for certain types of weapons, and if anything, enhanced the gameplay.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

To suggest that limiting your arsenal is as extreme as many of those things on that list is still pretty silly. As Stormhammer pointed out, it's really not big a deviation. No one is losing track of fun here, again, no need to make that accusation.

 

It we didn't think it would be fun, we wouldn't suggest it. We are going to be playing the game. Feel free to disagree and say that you feel it would not be fun and why. Fine. But don't try to pigeonhole anyone into the role of a Nazi on some a quest hell bent to ruin the fun of everyone who plays the game by sticking in heavy doses of realism. All and all that's a very trite, weak spin on things.

[Wilhuf]

Good idea from Elite Force, Gonk Droid. Classes that spawn with a weapons loadout and abilities. No weapon pickups at all. Different from MotS personalities. Basically a class-based rocket arena. Focus is no longer over item control but on positioning, method and timing of the attack.

 

That would work as a fun additional type of gameplay featuring loadout restrictions that add some strategy, as you've said. But without making it a boring Über-Sim.

 

And I would hope specialities play would be in addition to Jedi v Jedi play. For Jedi v Jedi play, I would prefer full loadouts and pickups with many weapons, with the highest degree of 'unrealism:' several heavy weapons, gadgets, and dozens of ammo magazines. All which you can carry around at force speed, and jumping as if it didn't even exist.

 

Maybe a 'realistic' Jedi Knight with loadout and movement restrictions could be done as a user mod though.

 

To add to the Sim Jedi™ list :

 

K. Your legs break upon landing from a 30 foot Force Jump.

 

L. Your insurance company drops you from death and disability coverage, citing 'hazardous vocation.'

 

M. Your HMO (RepubliCare) refuses to cover medical treatment for step K., claiming the physician is 'out of network.'

 

N. You have to take an extra part-time job to cover medical costs from step M.

 

[ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

[KillerBee]

O: you need to get a licence to carry a fire arm before you can play

 

P: your storm trooper armour isnt a good fit, and you require to purchase talcum powder.

 

Q: you female skin breaks a nail.. and you lose all control of her.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Well since this list has been made into a running joke instead of a more serious list detailing the perils of ramped attention to realism (a path we were surely headed down due to the suggestion of limited carrying capacities ), here are some more:

 

-The second you log off JKO multiplayer your email is spammed with thousands of letters from Lieberman activists demanding you stop the killing because your are being morally corrupted.

 

-If your character is playing for more than a few hours he/she must sit down to eat or else lose the ability to perform as well in multiplayer. There will designated 'eating areas' in-game where players can restock on food and are not allowed to be attacked. Players eating in the Oasis Dining Hall will likewise not be able to attack while stuffing down a bucket of KFC.

 

Choose your foods wisely! If you do not eat a well balanced meal you will enter the game with a stamina and energy disadvantage! Pick the best combination of the five food groups and avoid junk food at all costs! My 2 glasses of milk will o\/\/nz j00!

 

-If it's a certain 'time of month,' female players' multiplayer characters recieve extra attack and defensive bonuses. Bio-technology will of course we included with the game to monitor these monthly times as they differ from individual to individual.