Sabs vs. guns in MP, some people never learn...

[Scud]

I usually just adapt to the style of gameplay being played on the server I join. If most of it is just a big saber duel then sabers away, and if guns are more popular then guns it is. Also if someone shoots me in the the back and kills me while dueling I don't get mad I get even . I just track him down and try to kill whoever did it. Makes it fun looking for a specific person.

 

 

-Scud

[Retro]

For people who want to be bounty hunters or imperial/rebel officers, thats all fine and dandy, but tell me, when ever did you see any of them using force powers? As far as the SW goes, using the force, was a jedi/sith move, while using lightsabres as a jedi's weapon.

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by Kalishnikov

Most gun attacks are fairly useless against a seasoned saber user, atleast when attacking head on. The secondary fire for the heavy repeater and the flak gun are the only two that ever concern me. This is assuming the server has a force level high enough to have level 3 saber defense.

 

Heh. Whatever, there. Take a real FF gunner on, and you'll more than worry about the hr and the flak. Saber defense is only good against sabers, blasters, crossbows, and a few repeater rounds.

 

push takes care of any projectile that cant be deflected , i consistently beat the gunwhores soundly using nothing but sabre

 

LOL. This is a common misconception. Yes, you can push projectiles away, however, you cannot push them all. The fire of the rocket launcher, hr-alt, and flak-alt is more rapid than consecutive pushes. The lapse between push will only make you a sitting duck for the rockets, energy balls, and flak-slts that make it through. Plus, if you're close range, your reflexes better be damn good to block fire from those weapons. If you're going against me saber vs. guns, and it's ff, you won't have a chance.

 

lightstance + push means unhittable by everything except heavyrepeater alt fire. and even then its only every other shot from it hitting you

 

Heh, wrong again. Read up above to find out what other weapons you won't survive against.

 

Yeah like u say some ppl never learn ....

And that s the saberist not capable of dealing with guns and gunners like u only going for kills against those noobs

 

For me personnally i ended with 3 solutions against gun lamers

 

-Just deflect the bolt and when i m close knock down the lamer with pull to slice his torso ( in general it ends up even before i slice coz the poor guy blasted his own face with bolts reflected at him )

 

-Deflect the rocket , flak whatever explosive u can name with push and hopefully splash the lamer face with his own ammo

 

-STEAL his weapon with pull ...yeah it works at close Range like some ppl didn t have yet realised and it s definitily the best solution ....either i kill the unarmed moron with saber either i use his ho so badass weapon on his face

 

Now plez enjoy your kills against noobs for some days while u can ....coz after ppl learn how to use saber u better go back to quake 3

 

I think you forget that the other person has force as well. An unarmed gunner can defend himself quite easily to get out another gun while you try your stuff. You can't always pull people to you and you can't always pull their weapon out, either. Yes, you may be able to disarm the person, but a good gunner will have multiple damaging weapons in store, so when you pull on, the gunner pulls out another and gets a shot off before you can pull or push. And no, we don't just fight "noobs" (everyone does, so don't feel good about yourself just yet). If you're playing on a server there's no telling who will come in. I had someone in a CTF not know what to do with the flag. Newbs come into any server at any given time. If they get in the way of my fire/saber, too bad for them.

 

Uh, a good saberist will beat a good gunwhore, always. You may get the winning score if most of the players are newbies, but the saber wins the skilled games.

 

And you must've been winning against newb gunners. You can dole out all the "you win against sab newbs" all you want. The thing is, we can reciprocate.

 

Man i don t know what silly test u did but obviously it wasn t realistic

All the Blaster shots directed at me are reflected and that s durin FFA 16 ppl games, so i can guarantee u this fact ( and i m not even in light stance ...allways in medium )

After of course the explosive are not blockable and i cannot be sure that flak primary shot is ...But try to kill me with repeater primary and it ll end up with you receiving your own shots

 

Sure you can try to flank the saberist so that he don t block but generally he will rush u so the angle will be FULL frontal meaning all bolts deflected ( and considering the range it will be mostly in your face )

 

And if by chance u would get through ( i doubt it ) there is allways pull ( which i ll use againts those pesky explosive weapons ) .....now u ll learn to dodge the shots of your former weapon

 

Pull doesn't allways work. You guys act like it happens the same everytime. Again, I've already address most of your comments up above, so I won't waste the time to repeat myself.

 

hehehe..

 

 

ahh nothing gives me more pleaure then pulling the weapon and killing the other guy with is own gun..

 

If you're not dead first because of failed pull attempts.

 

Gun-hoes generally just kill saber users who are fighting ( a great example is Bespin stand on the balcony and spam imp gun alt fire = very easy kills). The only gun i fear is spammed imp gun or spammed flak, however push pull and dodging work a treat against these threats. But as someone said above mass killing newbies doesnt mean "j00 own da servers" (sorry i dont l33t speak) it means newbies cant defend against guns and you will finish top scorewise but not skill wise.

 

Ya know, it's funny. This thread slams good ff gunners for supposedly only killing newbie saberists. Your account only shows a newbie gunner, sitting up and away and shooting into people. If you went against a good ff gunner, you'd be changing your tune.

 

I'm not going to quote anymore, because you all are basically saying the same thing. Since you all accuse us of taking on newbie saberists, I will accuse ya'll of taking on newbie gunners.

 

And to make one more quote from jipe

 

And if you haven't heard of WD, then don't try to argue with Torment - you can't beat the best, and they're damn good.

 

Unfortunately, he is correct. Is WD the best? I dunno, but every non-WD I've played in JKO 1 vs 1 I've beaten. Were we the best in JK1? Yes and no. Like every clan, we've had our ups and downs. But you can damn sure know that we know what we talk about. You can doubt me all you want. I have a long list of people that can vouch for my honor in gaming.

 

And I'm sure someone's going to say, "You've only played newbies." Well, I haven't. I've been on duel servers that allowed guns and saw some pretty awesome saberists, and frankly, it's more fun to watch paint dry than a saber fight.

[Essobie]

Originally posted by COLT 45

Any suggestions for what guns would NOT be boring? I think the guns are a lot better than other FPS games lately.

 

No doubt. I'm extremely impressed that out of the 13 or 14 weapons in the game, exactly ONE is hitscan, the rest are projectile... that's a complete 180 from all the other FPS's out there where it's hand grenades and 35 different versions of the same hitscan weapon type (i.e. CS, RCTW, MoH).

 

Essobie

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Retro

For people who want to be bounty hunters or imperial/rebel officers, thats all fine and dandy, but tell me, when ever did you see any of them using force powers? As far as the SW goes, using the force, was a jedi/sith move, while using lightsabres as a jedi's weapon.

 

I'm seeing a lot of this on this thread. What exactly do you people WANT?

 

Do you want the game to require players to only use Force powers and Sabers?

 

Do you want all the players that want to use guns to not be able to use the Lightsaber because they aren't "Jedis"?

 

Do you want the game to include nerfed versions of the current guns so that Sabers would rule supreme on the weapons list?

 

The last one is the only one that MIGHT make sense since the first two can be fixed with a few svar changes on the server hosting the game. I don't AGREE with the last one, but at least I'd know what we were talking about.

 

Essobie

[Retro]

I dont really care whats done, I dont play on guns servers, I'm only finding it funny people talking about playing as bounty hunters since bounty hunters cant use force =)

[Painreliever]

If I want to play as a bounty hunter and you want to take away my force powers...fine. I guaruntee you that Boba Fett, Jango Fett or other various Bounty hunters had better weapons and less ethical dillemas about shooting into crowds as some of you do.

 

Retro you say that I can't be a bounty hunter and have force powers eh...let me read to you the profile of Aurra Sing.

 

"Once a Jedi apprentice trained by the mysterious Jedi Master known as the Dark Woman, Aurra Sing left the Jedi order before completing her training. Aurra Sing now utilizes her prowess as an experienced bounty hunter. Terse and paranoid, Sing is a formidable adversary who despises Jedi."

 

That is taken from her Force File on the back of her action figure.

 

Also interesting to note the official Star Wars site's profile of Aurra says she is a former Jedi and uses a lightsaber, projectile weapons and blasters.

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/aurrasing/index.html

 

So to say bounty hunters can't use lightsabers or the force is also a moot point. Now just suppose I want to play as Aurra, I go make a model of her, skin her up and hunt you down using every means possible, nobody should have a problem with that seeing as how it is straight from StarWars.com.

[Retro]

Point taken, as I only use the movies as reference

[Dar]

Originally posted by Orangina_Rouge

Yeah like u say some ppl never learn ....

And that s the saberist not capable of dealing with guns and gunners like u only going for kills against those noobs

 

For me personnally i ended with 3 solutions against gun lamers

 

-Just deflect the bolt and when i m close knock down the lamer with pull to slice his torso ( in general it ends up even before i slice coz the poor guy blasted his own face with bolts reflected at him )

 

-Deflect the rocket , flak whatever explosive u can name with push and hopefully splash the lamer face with his own ammo

 

-STEAL his weapon with pull ...yeah it works at close Range like some ppl didn t have yet realised and it s definitily the best solution ....either i kill the unarmed moron with saber either i use his ho so badass weapon on his face

 

Now plez enjoy your kills against noobs for some days while u can ....coz after ppl learn how to use saber u better go back to quake 3

 

Gun Lamers???

 

Sorry, I disagree with that. I have no problems with using either guns or sabers.

 

Even level 3 defense is not unbeatable....heck just have level 3 jump. Fire a barrage, jump straight up and continue to fire, they may block some but the higher you get the harder it is for them....result=dead jedi...sometimes.

 

Yeah it's not foolproof but it can work.

 

Also did you know that you can sometimes push a thrown saber away? The jedi has to go retrieve it themselves when that happens.

 

Now judging from your tone, you must think you are the uber bad boy of JK2....of that I have serious doubts, I have seen players who would own you before you could even draw your saber and even they can lose. So don't think you are the Master, cuz I guarantee you are still the student! Heck I KNOW I am not a master, not by a long shot.

[BioHazzard]

I am a saber user...I dont use guns even when I am on a guns server...the reason is this...Variety makes the game interesting. If you dont like the way a person is using a gun sneak up on them or find a way to kill them. If you cant then keep practicing. I am not the best at sabering, but I can generally hold my own even when everyone else is using guns. Use strategy. Dont just run in the open swinging away, that just attracts attention. And as far as I am concerned the only dishonoranle way to play a game is to use hacks. Otherwise if it is allowed in the server it is all good. So I say to my fellow saber users, QUIT WHINNING YOU ARE MAKING US ALL LOOK LIKE WHINERS...and to you gunners, QUIT DEFENDING YOURSELVES, YOU DONT HAVE TO....peace...

[=WJG=PINK]

What?? You think someone's gonna step to you Snoop Dogg?

 

PINK:atat:

[VaderJM]

I can testify to RabidPlatypus' ownage. The only chance I had against him in a duel was a lucky heavy jump lunge.

[Creston]

Originally posted by Zagadka

By and by, for those of you saying that Saber defense CAN'T deflect all attacks (and I just mean Blaster, not special weapons)

 

http://www.zagadka.net/saberdefense.jpg

 

Didn't fire once, didn't get hit once. Just got into a corner. They couldn't hit me from any angle.

 

 

Ehmm Zagadka.. The people who are saying that saberdefense isn't working properly in MP (like me), are saying that it doesn't work properly in MULTI PLAYER. In single player, saberdefense 3 means you can stand in a corner with your saber drawn and go for lunch and when you come back, you'll still be standing there.

 

In MP, saberdefense 3 means nothing (and I dare those who say it does come prove it). A blaster rifle on alt fire will still mow you down if you move even the slightest (and who the (*%%() wants to stand STILL in MP??!)

 

IMO, this is the one thing that really needs to be fixed in order for the saber to become a true pound for pound match against the gun, which is what it SHOULD be.

Well, that and backpedalling speed needs to be cut in half. The fact someone with a gun can run backwards and fire at me just as quick as I can run at him with my saber is just plain ludicrous, and I cannot understand that RAVEN, of all developers, didn't realise and fix that....

 

Also, I saw some remarks about an option to "Auto Accept Duel". This would be great. The thing with Duel now is that you have to AIM at the guy asking to Duel you. Try doing that when there are people who claim that shooting rockets up your ass because you weren't paying attention to your surroundings is Fun For Everyone!

 

Finally, just WHY on earth is there a #)&$)%^*$% ROCKET LAUNCHER in JK2?! Is there ANY reason whatsoever that it's in here, besides the fact that the Quake crowd wants one? It serves absolutely NO purpose in single player, and the ONLY purpose it has in multiplayer is to launch it into crowds who want to have mad saber contests, so that j00 can be a 733tz skillz0r and 0\/\/N da s3rv3r!

 

A few simple modifications would go a long way to balancing the field, and once it's balanced, everyone can enjoy themselves

 

 

Here's hoping for a patch.

 

Creston

[|GzFC|bébé]

haven't read all pages ..sorry

 

well, as far as i have seen, gunners have an obvious advantage

somehow that doesn't stop me from running around saber-only

 

my greatest wish would be, that gunners could not use any forces, or very little

there should be an option before the games, where you have 2 decide whether you use sabers and force or just guns without forces..

that would balance it better in a way..

[DeathBoLT]

Originally posted by madrebel

a skilled gunner will always defeat a saberist of equal skill.

 

guns = ranged

 

saber = mellee

 

 

if i can hit you from distance and you cant hit me i win. never forget gunners have force power too. so when you say well ill just do this this and this and ill win. no you wont cause ill do, this this and that to counter you all the while shooting at you from out of your saber range.

 

- Correct. the saber just can't deal enough damage while maintaining mobility(it might be able to if saber throw easily struck a gunner and dealt enough damage to drop him in 1-2 hits) to keep up with gunners that can be virtually airborne most of the fight(courtesy of the force jump).

It's important to realize Gunners can do everything you can do- the only difference is you can stop a few random primary fire rounds(that no good gunner I've played so far uses).

 

Basically, if the gunner knows what he's doing, he's going to keep out of range of your lightsaber(saber throw isn't that good to make much difference in a gun v. saber game) while he intelligently sneaks past proxy mines and concussion rifle shots (generally relatively easily) past your limited push ability.

 

other points from this topic

- Since when does playing for fun rule out playing to win additionally.. winning is very fun

 

- Force powers struck me as someting that shares a signficant portion of what 'JK1 was' if not the primary thing. I personally think this is true in JO as well. This thing about lightsabers being the sole significant factor that seperated JK form the quake clones is kind of ridiculous..

 

- I've heard Force Jump is alot like Tribe's Jets.. I've never played tribes so I can't confirm this.

 

- The Rocket launcher isn't that great of weapon.. I think I'd choose a Heavy Repeater or a Golan Flechette Launcher over the RL anyday.

 

- Gunners coming after you with the primary fire from the golan, heavy repeater, etc. probably dont' know what they're doing. I think the golan and the heavy repeater are best put to use using their secondary fires.

[VaderJM]

JK2 MP a lot like Tribes, because the jump IS very similar to jetpack and the fact that you lead fire, gives you a definite edge if you've been playing and training with Tribes rather than Quake.

[Lucky]

I've been saying force jump is like tribes in #nar, a place both me and db frequent. =P

 

Thats another good point vader, the lead time on a lot of the guns is more tribes like than other fps's. This's got a few folks a lil steamed, specially if they have a heavy q3 background.

 

Jker's are used to an insta shot with a mega weapon across an enormous lvl, think we prolly got dealt the worst blow there =P.

 

On the overall debate, sabers aren't meant to be an uber weapon that you can rely on without fail. Otherwise there'd be no guns. The guns AND the sabers have very specific uses and not independant ones in many cases. Learn to shoot, learn to swing, yer better off if u can do both.

 

 

Lucky

[VaderJM]

I got VERY lucky, because prior to playing JK2, I played tribes a lot, if I had known JK2 would be a lot like it, I would've played even more. In the first 4 days, I would beat down everyone using guns, just like every other Tribes vet, that was until people starting getting used to the system, now I get owned. *Sigh* it's just not fair.

[Jonny 2x4]

I'm goin with saber > gun, when the saber defence starts to work better I still think most saberists can take most gunners on. I went in a gun server yesterday with about 28 players and i ended up second, only using my saber, and it was my 3rd day playing. (granite ive only had about 2 hours of sleep in those 3 days becuz of this damn game , lol

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Lucky

I've been saying force jump is like tribes in #nar, a place both me and db frequent. =P

 

Thats another good point vader, the lead time on a lot of the guns is more tribes like than other fps's. This's got a few folks a lil steamed, specially if they have a heavy q3 background.

 

Jker's are used to an insta shot with a mega weapon across an enormous lvl, think we prolly got dealt the worst blow there =P.

 

On the overall debate, sabers aren't meant to be an uber weapon that you can rely on without fail. Otherwise there'd be no guns. The guns AND the sabers have very specific uses and not independant ones in many cases. Learn to shoot, learn to swing, yer better off if u can do both.

 

Quake 3's most powerful weapons are both hitscan (railgun and shaft), so yeah... if you've been doing nothing BUT Q3 in the past, JK2 is totally different (cept if you are used to using the Q3 Railgun while standing totally still...).

 

I can see the comparison to Tribes' jetpack, but in Tribes, you get that pack power back really fast, and it was part of combat... in JK2, jumping is really about getting away since it uses so much power (that doesn't regenerate nearly fast enough to keep doing it over and over). I think the weapons setup is closest to Quake 1, where there was only 1 Uber-weapon, and only 1 powerful hitscan weapon (shaft).

 

If you are really used to using nailguns from Q1, you are probably right at home with the Blaster Rifle though... I've been pretty successful with that gun (and that's on maps where I could go in search of a Flechette).

 

There's stuff from tons of older FPS's in JK2... which is why it's nice change from all the "realism" trend that's going on in the FPS development industry recently.

 

So this post is pretty off topic, so I'll end with: The best counter for a lightsaber is 3 detonation packs. Kaboom.

 

Essobie

[Trienco]

let me see... gun users think they are hated by the saberists because they use guns while saberists get the feeling the gun users call them stupid idiots to not use guns?

 

it's simple: run around the level with your saber and get shot. it's your fault.

 

i guess the only reason why 'gunwhores' are disliked it's not because they're using guns but because of the few that can do nothing but fire into a crowd of saberists waiting to duel.

 

play ffa_bespin and watch the platform. on most servers people are hanging around here to challenge each other. the biggest problem: only one duel at a time on the whole map.

 

what happens? at least 2 guys on the server spawn, get the big guns, run over to the platform and fire into the crowd. it's not the people prefering guns that kill the fun, but the ones who have the aim of a stormtrooper and can only hit people that are standing still and arent aware of him. maybe they need it for their egos to be on top of the list by collecting cheap kills instead of fighting the rest of the players.

 

and NO, the 'great' duelling servers are NOT an alternative if about 20 servers have a good ping for you, 5 of them are duel and NONE of them is empty enough to wait for hours or 'force disabled' so it's really about the lightsaber and not about who's drain-gripping/lightning faster.

 

on the mentioned map: why not leave the platform to the ones who want to duel and shoot your kind on the remaining 99% of the level? if someone is attacking you with a saber or whatever, kill him. if he just wants to duel he shouldnt have a problem to escape and get to the platform.

but just empty your repeater or rocket launcher into the watching crowd and it IS lame, because it is NOT requiring any skill or whatever. if you fight your enemy and win you might be soldier, if you kill people who aren't defending themselves your just a coward.

[Dralsk]

After all is said and done, wouldn't it be so much more satisfying to stop complaining and just beat the daylights out of those whose "philosophies of play" disagree with you?