Another Quake 3 Game? (Dissapointed player)

[Farseer]

Let me play Devil's advocate here...

 

I've played JO all the way through a have to agree that it is a fantastic game, but it is not the best game I've every played. Just like any product it has it's share of flaws. First, it is not the best looking FPS ever made. Where are the super-reflective surfaces that we have seen on the Death Star and on other Imperial ships? Where is the dynamic lighting for weapons? Well, it could be that the Q3 engine doesn't support these "features". Well, just so happens that UT does and there are some awesome StarWars UT maps available that blow away anything in JO. I suggested converting these maps to JO in another thread. Here is a link for those interested: http://www.planetunreal.com/utbuilder/SWmap.htm

 

Also, the Quake3 engine is very jerky, even on a fast machine. Getting 175fps doesn't do you any good if the game engine can't truly display them that fast. At a LAN party once I complained about how jerky Q3 was. The guy next to me ask me to display my fps. So I did...115fps. He then responds..."Your getting 115fps, what are you complaining about?". Well, I looked aver at his screen and he is getting 85fps, and his screen was as jerky than mine. So, I load up UT and started playing and I asked him how it looks. "Wow, that is smooth?" he says. "What's your fps?" he ask. I pop it up, and he couldn't believe I was only getting 75fps. Ok, the point is that Q3 is known to have been optimized more for fps than for visual quality, so to have folks argue otherwise is bit hard to swallow. Besides, UT is so much more smother it's literally unreal. But that is my opinion, having played both games extensively.

 

Now, I not blasting JO or Raven or anyone else. I thoroughly enjoyed JO. But, I have to disagree with all of the folks that are grabbing hold of this game and want to call it "Game of the Year", "Greatest Game Ever", etc. Truth be told, if this game didn't have the Star Wars title and characters, I doubt it would get over an 80% rating on most reviews.

 

Just some food for thought,

 

Farseer

[Razarblade]

Yes it does, in every game mode except CTF and CTY because kills don't matter in those modes. (and if you think they do, damn, I wouldn't want you on my team.)

[Zagadka]

For the record, I LOVE the new Force Jump. Unlike JK1, it saves you a bind AND allows you to control how high you jump. I mean, you have to be pretty anti-dextrous not to be able to hit another button when holding down the spacebar.

[Cpl_Hicks]

OK. Why does a game have to be "Realistic" nowadays to be good? Why does it have to have so much eye candy to be excellent? I had Ghost Recon: Desert Seige and Global Operations on reserve at my local EB. I decided not to get them because I knew that JO would take up all of my gameing time. This game has got to be the best I have played. Not because the graphics are excellent, or because it is "realistic", but because I can use a LightSaber and the Force. The more unrealistic the game the better I think it is. Gameing is ment for escape from reality for awhile, exactly what I do with JO. Even for the x-box I love Obi-Wan. Not because it is a great game because actually it isn't all that good. But I can use a lightsaber and the Force.

I am not spending money on a game for eyecandy or realism. If I like it and it is fun then I will buy it. By the way when is the Third Installment Comeing Out?

[seanMO]

i THINK ITS THE BEST fps THAT IVE PLAYED FOR MANY REASONS. THE GRAPHICS ARE FAR BETTER THAN UT, FAR BETTER. UT IS A GREAT GAME BUT MINDLESS COMPARED TO THIS GAME , IMO.

EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERNT TASTES, THIS GAME IS STILL THE BEST GAME IVE PLAYED IMO, WONT CHANGE THAT. NAME ME ONE OTHER GAME THAT OFFERS YOU AS MUCH ALL IN ONE GAME.

GREAT GRAPHICS(NEVER JERKY) OK STORY(BETTER THAN MOST)

INTERSTING AND VARIED COMBAT(PROGECTILE WEAPONS , FORCE POWERS, LS)

ALL OTHER GAMES SEEM 1 OR 2 DIMENSOINAL IN COMPARISON(NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GRAPHICS)

I EXPERIENCED NO JERKINESS AT ALL.

YOU CANT JUST LOOK AT ONE ASPECT OF A GAME(fps) AND JUDGE IT BASED ON THAT.

AND IM NOT SOME 15 YEAR OLD(NO OFFENSE) NEW TO GAMING.

UNTIL U2 COMES OUT THIS GAME WILL KEEP ME HAPPY.

[seanMO]

OH JUST TO CLAIFY IM COMPARING SP FPS TYPE GMES ONLY. I DONT REALLY PLAY ANYTHING ELSE. BUT IVE PLAYED THEM ALL.

[taldoren]

HUmmm, interesting views being thrown back and forth here.

 

Oh well, got my new flame proof suit ... might as well try it

 

Ok for the record I am loving this game, and yes I have played many many many FPS and Flight Sims and Mech Sims and... Gwad..Ok bottom line.. I play the computer way to much (Well that’s what the Wife says)

 

Anyway I think that they have done a fantastic job with this considering its on a Quake Engine. No I don't have to much against the Quake engine, apart from what has already been pointed out above. But I would not go anywhere near as far as saying it’s the best graphics ever. As I said I also play a lot of flight sims, and for the record it is way more important to have smooth FPS in any Flight Sim than a FPS (I play Both a lot) and the new FS are really amazing graphics and smooth when at Max settings (IL2 for Example) yes..yes.. different engine etc.. I know.

 

But UT Does do some amazing images and so smooth as well, I would like to have seen the dev team weighing up the pros and cons of both systems. Lets face it when UT and Q3 were released which did you prefer? In my Opioion UT way outclassed Q3 in terms of Graphics and Game play (Subjective as 2 different devs. but I hope you get the gist of my ....er....gist).

 

I always run some of the latest and fastest equipment, I am lucky I suppose that way, both Myself and my Wife play games and earn good money. so apart from my Cars/Bikes/pets, the computers get the rest . With this in mind I love thinking of future titles that will utilize the added features of the equipment and make me want to just walk/fly around and gaze at the landscapes etc.. I run JO @ 1600 * 1200 full everything *but the Vol Shadows (but thats a separate rant) However being an old timer by some of your standards (sigh where does the time go) I also KNOW that games need ...Game play/Stories/depth otherwise they are complete Crap. and to this I think JO Force Jumps its way ahead of all the rest of the FPS ATM. I really wish that Dynamic Lighting was in so bad, along with smother polies. Yes I know what the results of this would be (I used to do CGI work. rendering is a ***** without it having to be real time hehe)

 

I love this game, but please it really isn’t the best looking game, would be a contender for the best looking FPS (I still believe the UT engine would have us all wetting our pants for month if it had of been used though(LA prob got a really good Licensing deal for the Q3 Engine perhaps? or knew it had more recourses/programmers avail ?))

 

Now SWG on the other hand looks good so far

 

Fark thats long winded, ok zipping up suit now. Eye Candy aint what makes a game, but damm it can make a good game a friggen fantastic game.

 

Again these are my thoughts on the matter and if your thoughts are different, excellent that’s what being an individual is all about.

 

[DeathBoLT]

A few point's I thought I'd comment on..

 

- I've never had a problem with jerky graphics, etc.

Must be your guy's machines.

 

- Weapons are alright... they don't have that 'every weapon has it's use' quake 3 feeling but thats ok. The best weapons to use(their secondary fires at least) are the Golan Flechette Launcher and the Heavy Reapter.

 

The ST rifle(e11), the Bowcastor(well secondary fire can take out Saberist's), and the Rockets are weapons that aren't going to kill anyone if they're paying attention, but still will drop people the second they turn their back/focus on someone else.

 

- I'm suprised to hear people calling the Heavy repeater, etc. unbalanced considering every weapon can be either blocked by the saber or pushed away(yes even the hvy repeater's mortar-concussion rifle-ish 2ndary fire can be pushed away). Plus targeting with it is a bit harder, as opposed to being a direct fire weapon like the concussion rifle was.

 

That is because anyone who posts any legitmate negative comments about Jedi Knight II gets banned by one of the

100 000 000 000 people with Admin powers on these Forums. That is not an accurate poll; anyone who tells the truth, even without flaming or doing anything wrong, gets banned without grounds by the Nazi Administrators here.

 

The poll only reflects the opinions of people who think it is a good game because any who comes to these Forums to post real reasons why Jedi Knight II is a horrible game will get banned for no reason, and not be able to particpate in the poll.

 

The Nazi Admin who banned me, you are very immature, just like all the people who flame me for posting the truth about why Jedi Knight II sucks.

- I certainly hope admins aren't handing out bans for negative comments of JO..

 

- I consider guys who bash and accuse people of being trolls for expressing negative opinions about the game to be trolls themselves.

 

They screwed up force jump so that now you have to hold down the jump button to get a full jump

 

- Actually JO's method of Force jumping is a step up from JK's method of force jumping.. You have much more control over your jumps now than you did in JK. No more overshooting targets.

 

Things I hope to see in future patches/expansions:

- I hope patches will expand force mana reserves or reduce cost of force jumping.

 

- Future maps need more Metallic Bolt Ammo

[fune]

Originally posted by Farseer

Let me play Devil's advocate here...

 

Also, the Quake3 engine is very jerky, even on a fast machine. Getting 175fps doesn't do you any good if the game engine can't truly display them that fast. At a LAN party once I complained about how jerky Q3 was. The guy next to me ask me to display my fps. So I did...115fps. He then responds..."Your getting 115fps, what are you complaining about?". Well, I looked aver at his screen and he is getting 85fps, and his screen was as jerky than mine.

 

Farseer

 

I think the problem here is that you (and the other fella) had your monitor refresh rates set too low - for example, having 115 fps and 75Hz indeed causes the game to look jerky because the display adapter throws in a new frame before the monitor has even finished with the last one, usually resulting in a mix of the two...

[Chiori]

Hey seanMO is your shift key sticky? *g*

 

Chiori

[seanMO]

lol, yes it actually was. :}.

This subject of frames per second has got me thinking about other things ive heard. I beleive it was nvidia who said that a steady 35-40 fps is enough to play games and they were in the future gioing to concentrate on image quality.

I guess what in wondering is how many FPS is overkill.

Most of the games I play run between 80-140. and even the difference between those two is hard to if not impossible to see(i cant but thats just me) So people talk about how high the FPS of a certain game is to argue its case but it seems also useless to do so.

Is there an advantage to having higher framerates or is there a point where it becomes meaningless.?? An i missing something by not having higher FPS?? I understand why having low(teens or20)

FPS is bad but what about the opposite.

[Lucky]

the tab key navaros, the tab key. Gawd, wtf is the matter with you.

 

It's not even so much that you post inflamatory idiotic viewpoints. Its that you post *ignorant* viewpoints that show yer utter lack of patience/intelligence.

 

Let me reiterate. The tab key navaros, the tab key.

 

Talking about the balance this early is a lil rough. I get by as a lighty even tho I've seen a thousand or so posts about people not being able to do that because of the force balance. Dunno. I think you just need to hunt for strategies within the game. I tend to watch 2 bots play and try to figure out what Raven intended.

 

The concussion rifle has been preserved in the heavy repeater. Its now the 'jello conc'.

 

To the d00d with 'jerkyness' probs. Turn vsynch off. Or just try JK for an afternoon, jker's tend to complain about q3 being 'too smooth'. I get close to 250 fps in JK.

 

There's a whole thread about guns vs sabers and folks seem to want the saber to be an uber weapon. Its simply not. Its a method of staying relatively safe and armed until you can find a gun, and it has very specific uses otherwise, like whacking unsuspecting snipers and finishing people u knocked over.

 

As for the sabers being random thats just ridiculous. Most people don't understand how to pary/block or how different swing/stance combinations actually interact. I've been trying to figure it out since i got the game 2 week ago and I'm still not to clear on it. With the lil knowledge I do have tho, I've been earning a very bountiful living.

 

The rest of the folks who posted in this thread should realize the guy who started it prefaced it with "i don't even have the game yet, I'm just the messenger." So don't give him navaros treatment just cause he's looking for both sides of an issue. He's an intelligent consumer, not a troll.

 

Let me finish by saying:

 

THE TAB KEY NAVAROS, THE FRIGGIN TAB KEY.

 

RTFM!

 

ty.

 

 

Lucky

[Chiori]

Well actually after a certain framerate it wont give you any atvantage anymkore (maybe a technical one but none you could actually notice) so having 140fps won't be useful in any case anyway. And the jerkiness can come through the drivers or through the engine when the move is computed. Moving a ball from a to b doesnt mean it actually moves, the way how it moves is dependant on the algorithmus that is used. If I say the ball moves 20 cm per 'move' it will be visible jerkines if I say its 2mm then it may not be (as a basic example).

 

Chiori

[Scrobes]

I think it's clear that your opinion will depend on your point of view and where you've come from. If you're a die-hard UT/Q3 fan and come into this game wondering what it'll be like, you might think quite differently to someone who comes into this game from a JK1/MotS or even a "StarWars" viewpoint.

 

Likewise, if you play singleplayer first, before you even touch multiplayer, you could be disappointed slightly with the difference, and vice versa.

[FatboyTim]

Originally posted by SS_Foxy

Hello:

I was visiting an anonimous clan today and i found out that actually: some of their members are dissapointed with the game.

They say Raven just created a "copy of Quake III" and screwed up the original game aspects. I'm just being a messanger, i haven't even played the game myself yet.

Just posting this so you guys can give your opinions on this, they have wrote a list of Screw ups

I'll add my comments to each point on the list then.

 

Firstly, Quake III is a pure deathmatching game (arguably the best one available to date) while JKII:JO is a single-player game first, with a fantastic variety of mulitplayer modes available. The games are really hardly similar at all, except for their engine.

List of Screw-ups:

Weapons suck

Many of the weapons are identical to the ones in the first game, (they follow the same physics etc.) while others are new. None of them realy 'suck' as they all have their uses:

Lightsaber - This is the 'weapon that makes the game' and it is done brilliantly. From sounds to graphics, saber-throw to stances, this would make a fantastic weapon in any FPS.

Byar Pistol - OK, so its only a pistol but it can also be a more-than-adequate sniping weapon if you charge-up your shots.

Stormtrooper rifle - This weapon is identical to the movies, in look, sound and accuracy! Luckily, it improves vastly when used while stationary, there is also a rapid-fire mode which allows you to take on multiple opponents simultaneously to devastating effect.

Disruptor (sniper) rifle - A bit too "Star-Trek" for my tastes, nevertheless an effective weapon on many levels and useful in multiplayer too (as it cuts straight through the lightsaber defense hurrah!)

Wookie Bowcaster - Not the best weapon ever but useful enough in single-player and deadly up close when charged-up. Totally true to the original game too!

Heavy Repeater - Secondary fire is a "gunwhore's" dream in multiplayer. Deadly in either mode in Single-player.

Flechete gun - Think of Unreal Tournament's flak cannon (which was arguably the best weapon in UT) with an alternative 'explosive' mode. Yey another good gun in multiplayer too!

EMP gun - I feel the urge to shout "Ootini!" whenever I use this one... Fantastic against mechs/AT-STs in single player.

Rocket Launcher - unguided or homing missiles available, this is as good a rocket launcher as you could want, given that the Original Trilogy movies had none. Quite versatile, very deadly but counterable by force powers when used against you. No complaints here.

Thermal Detonators/Trip-Mines/'Pipe-bombs' - Explosives in multiple flavours - yum!

 

I really do fail to see the problem...

Graphics aren't even as good as UT

I guess they're simply not playing the same game that I did! Everything looked absolutely fine, given that the theme is Star Wars. What else are military complexes and the insides of Imperial Starships supposed to look like? The player/npc models are just great. Effects (lightsabers, force-powers, weaponry and "bullet-time" on death etc.) were all great too. Plus the outdoor levels looked brilliant, (certainly far superior to UT!)

Graphics are jerky and give me a wicked headache (note: I've got a hot machine as well as an ATI Radeon 7500, one of the supported cards, so the graphics shouldn't be jerky)

Sounds like the author needs to update their drivers, reduce the graphical detail/screen resolution, check their processor meets the requirements and then seek medical attention... (Games shouldn't normally give you headaches!)

Game takes forever to load

Get a faster machine (or set it up better!) I have had no problems whatsoever with load times (I'm using an IDE ATA100 drive.) Certainly load-times were no slower than RtCW or MOH:AA and re-load times were really quite fast (3-4 seconds.)

They screwed up force jump so that now you have to hold down the jump button to get a full jump

Deliberately so. This allows for great control over the height of your jumps. You don't want maximum height from every jump and you certainly don't want to use up your all force-power jumping onto crates either!

 

Really, thats just a stupid complaint...

Sabering looks cool, but underneath, it's identical to JK. I was in a number of multiplayer games and people are just running around waving their sabers... what a waste of time

There are three very different lightsaber stances, combined with multiple special moves for each one. Its actually very varied and quite controllable. If your opponent has level 3 saber defense though, you have to manouevre to attack in the right place at the right time in order to get your hits in...

 

The controls are also bound to be somewhat simliar to JK1 (both of which are 1st/3rd person games, featuring the same weapons afterall...)

Get stuck on walls and other things just like in all Quake III games. This is probably the worst side effect from the Quake III engine. All games using that engine seem to have that problem

Well, I've completed Q3Arena, MOH:AA and now Jedi Outcast, each on difficulty 4 out of 5. I finished RtCW on hardest difficulty. I've played loads of different Q3 mods (I'd guess about a dozen in total) and even the official expansion too. I can't say that I've ever once become stuck on a wall in any Q3-driven game. I therefore really can't comment on this, except to say that the author must have been trying really hard to find some faults with this game...

What do you think?

See above!

[Oberiko]

I'll come straight out and say that I don't like Q3.

 

I recognise that it's a fantastic game with a great engine, but I'm simply not a fan of frag fests.

 

To let you know where I stand, my favorite online FPS right now is Ghost Recon: Desert Seige.

 

With that said, I throughly enjoyed the single player game, and can't really think of many ways that it could of been better, it's the multi that I dislike. The first time I saw a storm trooper wielding a light sabre and leaping 60ft in the air I was turned off.

 

I suppose it's because I was hoping for a multiplayer somewhat akin to RTCW or C&C: Renegades. Different classes (some, like Jedi, with a hefty price tag), and team objective based maps. I was also hoping for physics like the sp portion of the game. Pulling in a helpless storm trooper and fatally slashing him while he's down, or, as a rebel soldier, being choked by a powerful dark jedi and tossed across the map.

 

But, as I mentioned in my title, it's all about preference. Q3 is one of the most popular online games right now, and JO has already made the top 10 list. With this in mind, I'd think that, enjoy them or not, one has to admit that they are good games.

 

Like everything else in this world, it can't appease everyone though.

[D.L.]

I don't know what people are whinging about with their graphics being shaky.

 

I'm running JK2 on my supposededly "inferior" GeForce2 64MB AGP MX, at 1024X800 with full detail and it runs like a dream. Quick load takes apprx 5sec and loading from the start takes at the most 30seconds.

 

Quit whining, update your drivers, get a new PC or just return the game.

 

Or you could just complain that vinyl doesn't run on your CD player.

[Lucky]

Ob, sounds like u like strategy type games and I bet yer a sniper fan =P

 

Try some ctf, or cty. Fairly different experience, especially if you fall in with a competitive bunch of players who enjoy the team aspect.

 

 

 

 

Lucky

[VaderJM]

A thing that irks me is this elitist attitude in regard to the skins, what says that you have to look like a jedi, to be a jedi.

[Kurgan]

(unless of course they really are members of the National Socialist Workers Party).

 

The admins here I think do a pretty good job, but we're only human and sometimes make mistakes. That is why there is more than one admin, so that one person isn't blinded by their own biases and can't see when they make a bad call. But we make tough calls every day. We have to balance between wanting the site to be a vibrant living community, and giving everyone the right to say what he/she feels.

 

For example, in many threads where somebody expresses an unpopular opinion, I've seen people post calls to "please ban this person." If we complied every time, we'd have banned a lot of people simply for expressing unpopular ideas.

 

I figure most people who dislike the game, wouldn't even bother to put in the time to post here.

 

However, it's the people who got worked up waiting for the game, and then were let down, that I would think would feel obligated to. There's nothing wrong with that. Liking every single aspect of every LEC game is not a requirment for membership here. All we ask is that you express your opinions in a civilized manner and realize that there are others with their own opinions.

 

Can't we all just get along? ; )

[Asheen-Shugar]

YODA: Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.

[Master Spiff]

I seriously don't understand all this talk about frame rates and graphics quality. First of all, we all go to the movies and get completely swept away at a whopping 24 FPS. We watch TV at 30 FPS (i think). You guys are whining and moaning because you can't watch your little FPS counter hit triple digits. Who gives a crap. Can you seriously tell the difference between 50 FPS and 75 FPS without your little counter in the corner of the screen?

 

I am running a PIII 500, 128 RAM, Nvidia TNT2 32MB. I have to turn all the settings way down, but it still looks pretty good. And it runs smooth at around 40 FPS on average. So, I am not even getting the full graphic quality that they put into the game.

 

But, I still love it. None of that crap matters because it is just plain fun as hell to play. You ARE a jedi. You can jump 40 feet in the air, push/pull people and objects with a flick of your finger, YOU HAVE A LIGHTSABER!!!!!, and a ton of other cool weapons and powers. If you are so hung up on little details that aren't as good or should have been better or different that you can't have fun with this game, then you're probably just a very disgruntled person in general.

 

I just battled my first reborn in SP last night. The dude switched off his sabre and twirled it in his hand (saweet). Then we traded blows a bit, sabre locked, and when we broke I immediately delivered an over the top slash to send it into slomo. It made me feel like a god. And then I proceeded to toy with some pitiful rodians and other bad guys, pulling their guns away and watching them run around in fear.

 

What other game let's you do this?

 

Just awesome.

[Oberiko]

Originally posted by Lucky

Ob, sounds like u like strategy type games and I bet yer a sniper fan =P

 

Try some ctf, or cty. Fairly different experience, especially if you fall in with a competitive bunch of players who enjoy the team aspect.

 

 

Lucky

 

You're fairly accurate, I do enjoy sniping, but not exclusively.

 

I have played the CTF, and, IMO, I think that the best version of CTF that one can get is with Tribes 2.

 

Massive levels (with both expansive outdoor levels and large interiors), several vehicles, different (albeit not terribly well balanced) classes... I find JO's CTF to pale in comparison.

 

A thing that irks me is this elitist attitude in regard to the skins, what says that you have to look like a jedi, to be a jedi.

 

I wouldn't call it elitist, I just find that, for me, it shatters any pretense of immersion.