DF Series Storyline Continuity (Revised, and w/ Spoilers)

[Kurgan]

*****Warning, this post contains spoilers from every game in the Dark Forces series, although the ones for Dark Forces and JK2 are less serious. Others may post spoilers from JK2 that may be more serious, but I am more concerned with plot points from the Single Player Game that aid in overall series continuity******

 

Okay, earlier on here I made some comments about the storyline continuity and realized I made a few errors, so here, to help revise my comments, are the opening crawls to all the games (considered as primary evidence). ; )

 

I'm not an expert on all of the EU continuity, so any comments are appreciated, and if Raven/LEC people care to comment, even better!

 

Basically I'd like to resolve the recently posted comments on Starwars.com which, after re-reading it a few times, APPEARS to place JK2 before MotS, but after JK1. I would like to know if they are full of it, or what was intended, and if we can't get a more "official" response, maybe we can piece it together ourselves. I have not beaten the game, but I have talked to people who have, and I don't see the connection (when I do beat the game I can say for sure).

 

(SW.com article here: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/kylekatarn/eu.html)

 

--------------------------

 

DARK FORCES Opening Crawl (PC version)

 

The New Order of the Empire stretches its evil cluthces across the galaxy, consuming planets with devastating results. Through many struggles, the Rebel Alliance has learned of a new Imperial battlestation, the DEATH STAR, with enough power to destroy an entire planet.

 

Unable to acquire the plans to the deadly space station, the Rebels have employed the skills of KYLE KATARN, known to most as a mercenary for hire, Katarn is a rogue figure who has a partial alliance with the Rebels.

 

Armed only with a blaster pistol and an intimate knowledge of Imperial methods, Kyle prepares to infiltrate the Imperial base where the plans are kept...

 

Continuity: A short time before

Episode IV: A New Hope

 

The game continues and has appearences by Darth Vader, Jabba the Hutt and Boba Fett (placing it before Return of the Jedi).

 

 

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DARK FORCES II: JEDI KNIGHT Opening Crawl

 

Dark Forces II

Jedi Knight

 

Since the destruction of the second DEATH STAR, the Rebel Alliance has begun the difficult process of building the New Republic.

 

Siezing the opportunity for control of the galaxy, new rival armies arise. The most dangerous of these are the Dark Jedi their leader, JEREC, seeks the legendary VALLEY OF THE JEDI. Within this lost battleground he will find untold power to destroy peace and justice in the galaxy...

 

Kyle begins with a Green saber (which was given to his father by Qu Rahn for safe keeping before his death, with the intention of giving it to Kyle). Kyle's father Morgan Katarn, as we know, was killed before Kyle started fighting on the side of the Rebels (initially he fought for the Empire, due to the coverup, thinking that the Rebels were responsible for Morgan's death, according to the Dark Forces 1 manual and the novels).

 

If you follow the light path Kyle uses the green saber, but it is destroyed, and he takes Yun's gold/yellow saber to use instead, and finishes the game with this new blade.

 

If you follow the Dark path, Kyle uses the green blade throughout, but this continuity isn't followed in any of the other games.

 

-------------------------------------

JEDI KNIGHT: MYSTERIES OF THE SITH Opening Crawl

 

Mysteries of the Sith

 

It has been over five years since Jerec was defeated at the Valley of the Jedi. Kyle Katarn, continuing his pursuit of the light side of the Force, has joined the fragile New Republic in the struggle against the Empire.

 

To aid in their cause Kyle has traveled to a remote base in the Altyr System, accompanied by Mara Jade, a young smuggler who sought out Kyle in the hope that he might further her Jedi Training.

 

Mara, once a powerful agent of the Emperor, was swayed from the Dark Path by Luke Skywalker. She now seeks knowledge of the role she will play in the continuing struggle for the galaxy...

 

Kyle begins the game with an orange saber and uses it throughout. Some have CLAIMED that at the end of the game Kyle uses a red saber, to show his temptation to the Dark Side. However I dispute this claim, as the final cutscene shows his saber as orange. Mara uses a purple saber throughout the game.

 

-------------------------

JEDI KNIGHT II: JEDI OUTCAST Opening Crawl

 

Jedi Knight II:

JEDI OUTCAST

 

It is a time of relative peace in the galaxy. Eight years have passed since the Empire was defeated at the BATTLE OF ENDOR,

but the New Republic still struggles to restore order and vanquish its enemies.

 

After defending the Valley of the Jedi from the evil Jerec and nearly falling to the Dark Side himself, former Jedi Knight Kyle Katarn has severed his connection with the Force, returning to his mercenary ways. With his long time partner, Jan Ors, Kyle continues to aid the Republic in the fight against the IMPERIAL REMNANT.

 

As the Remnant launches its latest gambit to regain control of the galaxy, Kyle and Jan have been sent by the New Republic to investigate the planet KEJIM, a long-dead Imperial outpost...

 

In JK2, Kyle gets his BLUE saber back, which he gave to Luke some years ago. According to a person I talked to, the "blue" saber is never explained in the game. Logically, it should be gold/yellow (if it follows JK) or orange (if it follows MotS), yet it is blue, but it is supposedly "Kyle's" saber.

 

----------------------------

 

So here are my questions (ignoring SW.com's comments for a bit):

 

1) How well does JK2 follow Dark Forces series continuity?

 

2) Does it seem more reasonable to assume that MotS takes place before or after JK2, or that it was simply ignored?

 

3) Does the regular chronology (DF, JK, MotS, JK2) make sense with the rest of the EU and canon film chronology?

 

4) What was the intention of LEC/Raven when making the game? Was continuity strictly adhered to? Will this be explained, or is the SW.com mystery all that we can hope for?

 

Thanks for any comments, and I may not be able to respond for awhile... ; p

[D66]

It seemed to me when I first loaded the game and read the JO opening crawl, that MOTS just Didn't happen at all. I would assume it was ignored...

Just as I usualy ignore Starwars.com in favor of theForce.net...

 

As to saber colors.... I have NO idea what's going on there

[Vanor]

I could be wrong, but I think the "almost falling to the darkside himself" is a nod at MotS. I don't remember Kyle almost falling to the dark side in JK1. He could take that path, but that path isn't reconized by any other game.

 

A couple people had some good theories about the blue saber, around here. One I remember was that Kyle made a new saber after MotS when he was training with Luke.

[Zek]

"After defending the Valley of the Jedi from the evil Jerec and nearly falling to the Dark Side himself,"

 

This suggests to me that Kyle gave up the force after almost going totally to the Dark Side in MotS. That makes it impossible to come up with a logical explanation for Kyle's blue saber, however.

 

Assuming MotS did happen before JO, here's the best idea I've been able to think of for his blue saber: After not being able to kill Mara in MotS, Kyle mentions himself being the student again. This definitely suggests he intends to relearn the ways of the force. It seems to me that he probably was tutored by someone, probably Luke(though he seems not to have officially joined the Academy, judging by his comments in the JO ending), and made a new saber as part of his training(as is traditional). He then, for reasons unknown, decided that he might fall to the Dark Side again, and gave his lightsaber to Luke for safekeeping.

 

As for his saber in the end of MotS, I specifically remember it being red. If I still have the save file there(I just played through it again before JO came out) I'll check out the ending cutscene when I get home. It is possible that the red saber was just a fluke; I always assumed they thought it was necessary to illustrate his evilness, which I thought was stupid.

 

Edit: Vanor, he did almost fall to the dark side in JK. He kills Maw in cold blood, and definitely shows some hesitance in deciding whether or not to kill Jan. Still, the sentence makes it sound as if it happened after defeating Jerec.

[Kurgan]

Kyle begins the game with an orange saber and uses it throughout. Some have CLAIMED that at the end of the game Kyle uses a red saber, to show his temptation to the Dark Side. However I dispute this claim, as the final cutscene shows his saber as orange.

 

So, if you can produce the screenshot(s)/save game files, I'd most appreciate it. When I played the game, there was a glitch, so that Kyle's saber was invisible (no blade) but you could see it of course in the cutscene.

[Cmdr. Cracken]

Simple. Lightsaber crystals don't last forever. Sure, they last a while, but like any other part, they probably need to be replaced. Since Skywalker is so good with the Force, he probably kept that lightsaber in good working order, and when the crystal burned out (maybe he used it for a trainee or something.) he replaced it, and made it blue.

 

This is perfectly logical.

[Zek]

Why would Luke betray Kyle's trust by giving his saber to someone else?

[DigitalVapor]

Though I'm sure this is not the case, Starwars.com makes it sound as if MotS comes AFTER Jedi Outcast!

Deep in the Valley of the Jedi, Kyle confronted Jerec, the very man who had killed Morgan Katarn. The two did battle, and when Kyle slew Jerec, he fulfilled an ancient prophecy. The spirits of long-dead Jedi, trapped in the Valley for a thousand years, were finally freed. Several years later, the Valley of the Jedi became a focal point in the struggle between Kyle Katarn and the Dark Jedi Desann.

 

 

Long used to operating independently, Katarn at first refused Luke Skywalker's offer to become a Jedi apprentice. Instead, he continued to serve the Alliance, now the New Republic, on many important missions. After a troubling run-in with the dark side on the forgotten Sith world of Dromund Kaas, Katarn conceded that he would benefit from Skywalker's tutelage, and joined the Jedi Master's fledgling Jedi academy.

 

I just had a thought, Perhaps this is not in chronological order. Because I just considered that after kyle's brief experience with the dark side in MotS, Kyle, like it says above, joins the academy, builds a new lightsaber and eventualy decides he is too unstable to continue being a jedi and turns away from the ways of the force. Then we begin with JO

[matt--]

According to SW.com, Kyle's ship is still the Moldy Crow...and yet it mentions Desann.

 

Very interesting.

 

I'm going to ignore SW.com's entry.

 

I think the orange saber in MotS is supposed to be gold, meaning it is Yun's saber.

 

That would mean that we went back to Jedi training after MotS and built a new, blue saber as a part of that training. He then later decided, for as yet unknown reasons, that it was too risky to pursue his life as a Jedi.

 

So then where is Jan in MotS?

Maybe Kyle and Mara Jade were both on a mission from the Jedi Academy. Since Jan isn't training to be a jedi, she couldn't accompany them.

[DigitalVapor]

I have determined that I have the best explanation for the change from orange to blue lightsaber color.

!!!!!SPOILER AHEAD!!!!!

 

 

After defeating Jerek at the Valley of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker asked Kyle to join the Jedi Academy. Kyle refused, prefering to continue serving as an agent of the republic. After Kyle's brush with the Dark Side in the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas (MotS) He decided that he would benefit from joining the Jedi Academy.

There he built himself a new lightsaber with a blue blade. During Kyle's time at the academy, he became unsure of himself. Fearing that he would lose control and fall to the dark side again, Kyle gave his lightsaber to Luke and vowed never to use the force again. However, things change when Kyle has a traumatic encounter with Dark Jedi and former Jedi Academy student Desann.

 

[DigitalVapor]

Logicaly Jan was left out due to the attempt to replace her with Mara. OR they simply forgot to throw her in. But for continuity's sake, a good explanation is that Kyle went on a mission with his new apprentice Mara Jade leaving nothing for Jan to do. So Jan takes on another mission outside the MotS storyline

[digl]

DigitalVapor what was the need for a new thread ? :confused:

I merged them.

[matt--]

DigitalVapor,

Your idea sounds exactly like mine...great minds think alike, huh?

 

 

Digl,

You beat me to the merge.

 

[digl]

Originally posted by matt-windu

DigitalVapor,

 

Digl,

You beat me to the merge.

 

Originally posted by matt-windu

Your idea sounds exactly like mine...great minds think alike, huh?

 

[Lord Odisse]

In an interview in a UK magazine they said that in the single player game you can only have three Lightsaber colours (Red, Blue and Green) according to George Lucas himself, Red is evil while Blue and Green are good, that's the way they are he retorts, if you watch this on-line documentary on the Jedi and their weapons from Episode II you'll notice that the "only" exception to this rule is Mace Windu's Lightsaber which is purple and that's only because Jackson asked specifically for it:

 

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/video/making/making10.html

 

It does explain why in every single image from the films we've seen why the "good" Jedi use only blue and green Lightsabers (except Mace of course)

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/barriss_promo.jpg

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/luminara_official.jpg

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/promo2_anakin.jpg

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/yoda_kids2.jpg

 

Mace Windu's purple Lightsaber:

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/promo_mace1.jpg

 

http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/promo_mace2.jpg

[Covax]

That still does not explain why Kyle's lighsaber was Blue in JKO when we last saw him with an orange saber in MotS. I COULD understand if he would've made his own after JK I but it would hadly fit in with all the 'I'm done with that Jedi stuff' attitude.

[Wes Janson SMR]

I always thought that Kyle and Mare were "stuck" on the New Repulbic base during their first scene in MotS. During the time, the two got to know each other, and Kyle was still dealing with his growing (and powerful) Jedi abilities.

 

Once Mara found about Kyle's abilities, maybe she asked him for a few "pointers" during their stay. Like Kyle, she never felt like she'd be the poster-child for the ways of a Jedi Knight, so maybe he had some tips. You know, one "Just a guy" to one "Just a gal"...with Lightsabers.

 

And when Kyle went batty, Mara probably thought it best for her to stop him since developing a repore.

 

I need to play the game again. Or...Just skip through and watch the ooglay cutscenes. ;-)

 

And as for Kyle's red saber at the end of MotS, I'll bet money that it was simply an old Sith Lightsaber he found in that temple. Think about it: There were abundant amounts of "living satues" with 'Sabers......

 

*thinks*

 

Perhapse..... Perhapse Kyle destroyed Yun's gold Lightsaber in favor for one of the Sith 'Sabers! Yeah. He got rid of it. Why would a budding Dark Jedi hold on to a goodie-goodie's Lightsaber with his "Light Side stench" all over it? He ditched the 'Saber for the Sith's one (which happens to be red), and almost falls completely to the Dark Path.

 

After Mara talks some sense back into Kyle, he seeks Luke's guidance in controling his powers. Again, that red Sith 'Saber that Kyle picked up had that bad Force vibe that reminded him too much of what he feared he might become. So as apart of his training, he built his own Lightsaber, which happens to be blue.

 

But with all his training, he couldn't shake the responsibility that came with Jedi-hood, so he essentially said the equivolent of "The hell with this," and left the accademy for the better of him and the Galaxy.

 

He makes a living working for the New Republic, and here we are at Jedi Knight II.

 

But here's the trick...... For a super soldier like Kyle to take out entire bases of Stormtroopers, you'd think that he still unconsciously relied upon some passive Force experiences. Like Anakin and his Pod Racing deal. And I'm talking all the way to the first Dark Forces game. You think any mere mortal can take on a Kell Dragon bare-handed? Or Boba Fette?! '-)

 

Any of this make sense?

[Emon]

Those colors aren't necisarily true. I'm not saying George Lucas is wrong, I'm saying you misread the info, or it was misread and mistyped... He's even said before those colors are common preference for dark or light, but it's no set rule. Lowbacca has a red lightsaber, and he is a light jedi.

[Lord Odisse]

Originally posted by Covax

That still does not explain why Kyle's lighsaber was Blue in JKO when we last saw him with an orange saber in MotS. I COULD understand if he would've made his own after JK I but it would hadly fit in with all the 'I'm done with that Jedi stuff' attitude.

 

Under the Heading of an article in said games magazine "Does Colour Matter" LucasArts response to the this seemingly innocent question is surprisingly nervy, Tom Sarris, director of public relations offers this explaination, "We have to be consistent with what happens in the films, and choosing the colour of your Lightsaber would represent an inconsistency. While it may be something players want, we still have to adhere to the Star Wars rules. Licensing does give us latitude when it comes to multiplayer. When it comes to single-player we have to stick to the rules much more strictly. I know it sounds hypocritical, but in multiplayer there has to be a little bit more latitude given and thankfully licensing gave us that."

[Lord Odisse]

Originally posted by Emon

Those colors aren't necisarily true. I'm not saying George Lucas is wrong, I'm saying you misread the info, or it was misread and mistyped... He's even said before those colors are common preference for dark or light, but it's no set rule. Lowbacca has a red lightsaber, and he is a light jedi.

 

Watch the online documentary he specifically says what colour Lightsabers "good" and "evil" Jedi use, you're confusing the EU with the actual one that Lucas himself created.

[Kurgan]

I just realized I wrote "Either years" instead of "Eight years"

 

doh...

 

Incidentally, I talked to three other people who've beaten the game, all confirm that the blue saber is never explained in the SP campaign. IIRC, at last QuakeCon, a LEC/Raven rep who was demoing JK2 replied to comments about the saber color that it would "be explained."

 

Nice theory Wes, but again, there's the problem of Kyle trading up the red saber for a gold one in the final cutscene (??!!).

 

And I might be wrong, but didn't the Sith statues also use orange lightsabers? I might be mistaken, but I think the only person I remember using a red saber is

Mara's evil twin

.

 

The SW.com entry also mentions a green saber, which as we know, Kyle hasn't used since his early adventures in the Valley. I'm guessing they just slapped in the references to Desann to fit JK2 into their article, without playing the game.

[WinkyHarper]

Personally I think everyone's making too much of an issue out of the continuity. If the game was really in step with established canon, one would have a hard time explaining why Kyle was fighting seven Dark Jedi (with the aid of a rather old Jedi Master, no less) in Jedi Knight; after all, Palpatine and Vader wiped out all but two of the Jedi (the two being Obi-Wan and Yoda, of course). Even if you choose to follow the "Expanded Universe" mythology, one would still be hard-pressed to explain that huge hole in JK's plot.

Anyway, they're all awesome games, and I guess that's the important thing.

[Saient]

Emon.

 

George Lucas and Starwars there is absolutly no way that he can be wrong. If you read the expanded Universe.. Most of that would be considered wrong by Lucas's Stand point. If Geroge Lucas says RED is for Sith then your Expanded Universe is wrong

even our Jedi Knight games are wrong, He could release a 1 more movie with Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford end up not being Married because of the Jedi arn't supossed to love thing.

 

even though george hasn't done himself any credit IMHO

 

Greedo shooting 1st

the Sarlac Pit in special edition

Jar-Jar

Medichlorians

Anakin being concived like Jesus

ect

 

It remains HIS story and HIS story alone.

everything else is side line.. while cool it may be.. its not really starwars more like a spoof of starwars or a what might happen next. shouldn't really be taken seriously

 

I've read quite a bit of the expanded universe and everytime I pick something I get the feeling of ... ah this is someone elses dipiction. its not really STARWARS.. but its kinda starwars

then I think to myself.. "they're all cashing in on it"

 

Tim Zahn is a prime example

 

Why Kyle's Katarns Saber is Blue now??? Who cares

he's just a game character.. he became a jedi by finding a saber hidden in his droid! and somehow game across 7 Dark Jedi

wow... where did they come from?

 

no matter how crap Episode 1 is.. its George's Story and its more Starwars then anything in the Expanded Universe

 

nuff said

[Kurgan]

Winky: I personally don't think its too much to ask to look for consistency in the Dark Forces series. I'm not asking for the novels to gel with the games or the games to gel with movies or other books (though that may help us fill in some of the holes), just the games to agree with each other, story-wise.

 

Besides, if you think having seven dark jedi is a big deal, then most of the EU needs to be thrown out, we have stadiums full of Jedi and Jedi-wannabes. It would make sense that some of them might get together and make a power grab. I'm not asking for film canon, just some consistency between games in a series using characters that they created. I know Raven created JK2, but they were using LEC's characters and themes, and LEC oversaw the project. ; )

 

I just ran across the whole "lightsabers don't work in water" deal in JK2's single player. Another anomaly... they worked fine in JK/MotS. I guess Kyle got this blue saber at K-Mart!

[MankaCat]

well apparently in the Episode 2 Visual Dictionary (yet to be released) it is revealed the red sabers are made by synthetically produced Sith crystals

or something