Star Wars Versus Star Trek

[Rogerwilco2002]

Hey dude that posted above, why does it matter if it is scientific? It is fictional. Not like anything that happened in the SW and St movies really happened in our reality.

 

oh and let me say again...

 

FICTIONAL

 

say it with me, everyone

 

FICTIONAL

 

science is irrelevant in this debate, this is basically a debate of what you like more Star Wars or Star Trek(hence the title). So basically youll back up which one is your favorite. And being a Star Wars forum of course Star Trek is going to not win in here. What is the point of debating which is better in a place where people are gathered to worship one instead of the other already. The demographic in this forum are going to be mostly leaning towards SW so asking which is better is like going to a Star Trek convention and asking how many people are there because they love Star Wars.

[Executor32]

I was referring to his statement, not to SW and ST in general. He was simply assuming that the same was true for all lasers, no matter how powerful they were. Picard never said that that applied to all lasers, and therefore Evil's statement was untrue. That was all I meant by that. Beside, you know what happens when you assume...

 

It makes an ass out of you and me.

 

Oh, by the way, you should at least highlight my name and copy it into your post, rather than just call me "dude who posted above". It makes understanding who you're talking to much easier for everyone.

[Rogerwilco2002]

Originally posted by Executor32

I was referring to his statement, not to SW and ST in general. He was simply assuming that the same was true for all lasers, no matter how powerful they were. Picard never said that that applied to all lasers, and therefore Evil's statement was untrue. That was all I meant by that. Beside, you know what happens when you assume...

 

It makes an ass out of you and me.

 

Oh, by the way, you should at least highlight my name and copy it into your post, rather than just call me "dude who posted above". It makes understanding who you're talking to much easier for everyone.

 

Yes I know what happens when peopple assume things. Sorry I called you dude, I usually use the quote button but I musta forgot. I just think it is kinda silly that some are trying to debate which is more real so I got a little messy in my reply approach I guess.

 

It is hard to combine two totally differnet universes, that both happen to be ficitional. Especially when none of us are the original idea men for either ST or SW. Of course even though I must still go with the Borg destroying the Jedi Hands down.

 

Of course if you still don't think the borg will win. What about Q?

He could mess those jedi up so bad.

[power_ed]

Originally posted by obijonkenobi

Jedi would destroy the Borg in man-to-man combat. Even with out the use of a lightsabre.[/b]

 

oh.. really? I'd like to see Obi-Wan save his own arse once he's infected with the nanoprobes..

and Vader would be even easyer to assimulate.. i mean.. half his body is allready implants

 

 

As for killing borg the Jedi can use the force to slam the borg into walls over and over severely fuking up any electonic parts to them.

 

they might get a couple of thems this way yes.. but the Borg will win this battle as they are far superiour in numbers

 

 

 

And guess what... To kill a borg cube, I am sure a weapon capable of destroying a planet would have not trouble taking out a floating rubix cube.

 

Oh. like the Borg's REALLY scared of a battlestation thats 20 min. to get around a planet (ep4) also.. what kind of stupid engineer designed it.. i mean: wo would make an exaust pipe wich on impact would destroy the hole dang thing? "We are the Borg.. existence as you know it is over.. we wil add..OH NO!!! ITS THE BIG BAD MOVING PLANET.."

 

 

also.. a Sovereign-class starship could take on ANY imperial/rebel ship any day.. those SW pilots dont know jack about tactical warfare in space.

 

 

and to end this diccusion: i really wanna see anyone from SW trying to fight the Q... MUAHAHAHAHA.....

[Jedi_Monk]

What gets me is people saying that ST's tech is so much more "realistic" than SW's (which was said several times on the first page, though the Trekkers have since backtracked quite a ways).

 

oh.. really? I'd like to see Obi-Wan save his own arse once he's infected with the nanoprobes..

See, Jedi are completely aware, through the Force. They're hotwired into the single most powerful thing in the universe and therefore into all living things that generate it. Because they are so fully aware, the nanoprobes could easily be rendered useless through the Force, doesn't matter how small they are. Jedi Healers can actually manipulate single germ organisms to cure someone.

 

And since when was the Lightsaber a Jedi's only weapon? The Jedi in Episode I used Force Push just as often as sliced with a saber. I'd like to see the Borgs trying to get at a Jedi. Walk forward (the things can't even run), get pushed back. Stand up, walk forward, get pushed back... repeat until the thing is bugsquat. Superior numbers are nothing when they can't even move fast enough to overwhelm someone who can thrash them without even getting within a dozen meters.

 

Also, consider the Sith Lords of the Old Republic era. Naga Sadow caused two stars to crash into eachother, causing a super-nova that destroyed a Republic attack group. If he can move those two stars so effortlessly, what could he do to Borg Cubes?

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing

 

Oh, and the Deathstar got from Alderaan to Yavin just a few hours slower than the Falcon did. Its hyperdrive is amazing, it's only the sublight drive that's sluggish. The SW ships also have another advantage over ST ships: it's nearly impossible to track someone through hyperspace. You can calculate their trajectory, if you get a good look, but they could have dropped out just after a few seconds, be half a system away and then change course before you caught up. Never catch it. And unless you both enter hyperspace at almost the EXACT SAME TIME and are within a certain distance, the expance between two ships would be vast. They're actually in another dimention, not just cruising at impossible speeds through realspace.

[Kurgan]

But what makes trek great is that all the issues on the shows translate directly into moral issues that we are facing right now in our own world. If it was my way, Star Trek would be the guide book on how to govern today's world.

Star Trek is also the future. All technologies in star trek are based on real life theories and concepts. All the weapons, warp engines, transporters etc. are all way of the future that are being researched and created right now as I write this. Many star trek technologies that were dreams when the first shows/movies played, exist now.

Federation is something that I am sure will exist in 200 years. I will bet my life on it. Star Trek is the future

 

Sorry to take the air out of your sails there Morpheus, but I'd hazard we're as far away from Star Trek technology today as we are from Star Wars technology.

 

Remember that in Trek, the "utopia" on earth was only achieved because the Vulcans appeared and VOLUNTEERED to get the human race up to galactic standards in terms of technology (as seen in First Contact, and the effects seen in the Enterprise series). Remember in the Star Wars universe, they'd be traversing space for thousands of years (you can't possibly have a galactic republic without interstellar travel).

 

Granted, a few minor similarities exist in some of the stuff like cell phones and 3d holograms, but once you factor in stuff like transporters (sure, we can sort of do it with individual molecules, but keep in mind we have to DESTROY one to create the other.. think of it.. would you let somebody blast you with a flame thrower until you were nothing but ashes, if they promised to create a clone from your materials later on? the philosophical problems associated with transporters make issues like abortion and cloning mere child's play compared to the can of worms you'd open with molecular transport!).

 

True, in SW we have ships moving at millions of times the speed of light, whereas in Trek we have them moving only thousands of times, but still... so far nothing the size of a ship can even move CLOSE to the speed of light, much less orders of magnitude faster...

 

Trek is full of scientific sounding technobabble, but it's really no more "realistic" than Star Wars. About the only thing it has to do with real life is that it's set in our future, in our galaxy, rather than in another galaxy "a long time ago." The odds of humans evolving in another galaxy just like us is astronomical as it is, but how about dozens of races all nearly identical to humans other than a few superficial racial characteristics evolving all over one galaxy?

 

Maybe Star Trek is light years behind Star Wars in terms of much of its technology, but the fact is that we're not "close" to Star Trek in terms of our technology, despite what fans might want to think. And without getting into a big political discussion, I think one could take issue with the idea that we're heading towards the kind of political "evolution" that Star Trek (at least Roddenberry's stuff) envisions.

 

Star Trek and Star Wars are both about the human condition... told through metaphor, melodrama, and special effects. We have politics, religion, ethics, emotions, etc all there. They just go about it different ways. I wrote a nice paper on this for a conference earlier this month (which I won't repeat here) but it's interesting to compare Trek and Wars (I explored the religious angle if you're curious).

 

And yes, I agree, that if the Q continuum is as powerful as we're led to believe in the shows, they/he/it could easily take out the forces of the SW universe. But, leave Q out of the picture, and the Empire would make short work of the Federation, the Borg, etc.

[Rogerwilco2002]

Nothing in the Star Wars Universe can even come close to standing ground with the "Q". Nothing.

 

Star Trek doesn't even need "Q" to kill those Jedi though. Between the Borg and the Federation they would be crushed.

 

All the Jedi would be assimilated to make the Borg even stronger than they already are. Except it, Star Trek would win against Star Wars with "Q" alone.

 

And you can't leave "Q" out of the picture.

[*T¥RANITH*]

If we're on the subject of looking at the realism of the two universes, SW does actually have the edge here:

 

ST shows both faster-than-light travel (Oh btw, warp 9.99 is more than 1 million times the speed of light) this would, in realistic terms cause the ship to instantly become infinite mass and everything in the universe would instantly become a single point in space. Perhaps this was how the first Big Bang started

 

Ok so SW does this too, but it is explained in terms of alternate dimensions (scientists are still confused as to whether there are 11 or 31 dimensions, but it is one of those) where you could travel to point A from point B by travelling through a different dimension of space (which would mean they would not need to circumvent planets like they do in the films) If you want a more detailed explanation on how this is done PM me using the forum with ur email addy.

ST might do something similar, I have never read a proper technical manual, so tell me if they do something similar (I know they go through some 'Warp conduit' but I don't know how this is supposed to work)

 

ST also shows weaponry such as Photon torpedoes where they get anti-matter and matter in seperate chambers and then release them to cause an antimatter/matter explosion? Antimatter is just that, the exact opposite of matter, if the two opposing similar masses (albiet opposite) are brought together they annihilate, (1 + -1 = 0) . The only way I can see antimatter being used as a weapon is to direct a stream of anti-particles at the opposing ship, and this would bore a hole in the hull by negating the matter which it is made of.

 

in SW the only discrepancy I can make out is the lightsaber. I can't see how this could be a possibility (PM me or post here if you disagree, as long as u include facts on how it would actually work)

 

in ST they have time travel. Ok so this is actually theoretically possible, provided you decrease the circumference of the universe

ST universe must have universe-shrinking-rays...

 

Transporters are actually a possibility as long as you have 2 sites set up adequately. There is no way you could transport someone like that to the surface of an unprepared planet.

 

Everything else in the 2 universes I can actually see as possible to exist, provided the correct technology level. But you just can't go against the laws of physics

 

Also, if you have any more things in the universes which you think would be impossible to actually exist, post em here (or PM me) an i'll have a look at it. Would be quite interesting to see what people thought of

 

I know this isn't a thread to post about realistic settings between 2 beautifully-made and epic settings. If they weren't, how come they both have so many fans? me included...

IMHO there isn't one or the other which is better, and it all boils down to subjective opinion. Mine is that they both R0x0rZ

 

I tried to include the facts here, if you don't agree don't go flaming me, just tell me

 

[EDIT] Oh yea, the Q.... erm do I really have to include all the things they possibly couldn't do? and even if they could, why would they interest themselves in the lives of mortals, they would be above such moral standings...

 

Engage warp, and may the force be with you.

[Rogerwilco2002]

Hey *T¥RANITH*

 

I am pretty sure your not an omnipresent all powerful being so you really don't know what they are thinking.

 

Plus I dont see how you are debating the realism in ST and SW when neither is any closer to being real than the other. And I see it as in fact insulting Star Wars when you do so because SW was meant to be unrealist. It is meant to expand the mind into a new universe, and saying that it is real is insulting to its cause.

 

Thats just the way I see it but if you want to watch something sci-fi because it is more 'real' than the competition then go right ahead.

[Kanubis]

When I was still a lad at school, I was (and still am) a big SW geek. There were also ST geeks, who unlike us had a club. In this club they once drew a diagram of a Klingon brain (no really). It all went sour when people realised that walking in and saying "cool - Star Trek. May the Force be with You!" could reduce the poor dears to a near beserk rage.

 

Here's the thing, getting this scientific about it is just stupid. There's too much unrealistic stuff in both.

 

And all this 'but the 'Q' could just blah blah blah' crap. I mean, all it would take would be for Lucas to be sad enough to read this thread, stroke his greying beard, and put in a new force power (subtly) in Ep3 that counters whatever this 'Q' thing does (I am in complete ignorance of what this/they is/are). Then suddenly, the whole argument changes. I mean, what's the point?

 

Anyway, having confessed to geekdom, I suppose I should contribute something:

 

if its SW vs Startrek in tearms of weaponary. All the starwars weapons seem to be lasers, something which no matter how powerful cant even penitrate a federation ships navigation sheild never mind main deflector. In return to the jedi where achbar says "consentrate all firepower on that super star destroyer" and one Awing crashing destroys is.....doesnt seem like much of a match to a quantum and photon torpedo equiped ST ship

 

The Photon Torpedos / Ion Cannons / Concussion Missles employed by more advanced startfighters and capital ships such as SD and Mon Cal cruisers all work on technology other than lasers. So there.

[obijonkenobi]

This is mainly for Azraelt and whoever else was pissed off with the posts of "ObiJonKenobi".

 

This will sound like just a lame excuse but I know this and I wouldnt make this up just as an excuse. I guess you will need to trust me.

 

I am the real Jon, im 21 as of this moment. This is my account as well. But I did not write these posts.

 

"Well someone did" you no doubtedly ask. That somebody would be my 18 year old brother, Michael.

 

See my PC died on me a few months ago so I use this computer of his to do stuff. I guess he has gone on doing some posts as I sure as hell didn't. Cookies is enabled so I guess thats how he could write with my account without knowing my password - it automatically signs me in I guess. As of the moment cookies are turned off now so people dont get pissed off (any more then now) at me for posts posted by "me".

 

I found out about these series of posts when I was going through the lists of threads I have posted on and noticed there was a few I didnt actually put post on (or even look into). This being one of them.

 

Anyway, believe me or not, I can not proove it either way so I guess I will need to acept what you believe is true.

 

ps: while I do perosnally like starwars better, its just because or personal taste. i still watch star trek on tv when its on but i wouldnt come close to being knowelgable enough to debate which is superior or who would kick whoms ass in a brawl.

[obijonkenobi]

Just an update... Michael now as a couple of sore arms as punishment for ****ing with my account. Who says fists dont solve anything? I know he sure wont post in this place again - not with this account at least >: )

[mima kake]

hmmmm i like SW better then ST

 

because I like the designs of the SW universe lots more.

 

In ST everything looks so clean (I liked the idea kicking the falcon to get him started) and in SW things just look more alive.

 

 

and the sound, SW has way better sound (I know bigger budged) but Ben burrt rules

 

And ofcourse the FX look way better.

 

Don't get me wrong i like ST too

aduldts walking in pyamma's always gives a smile on my face;)

[TiE23]

Star Wars 100%, No contest. Star Wars has worlds and millions of ships and light sabers, Star Treks guns look like T.V. remotes, the sets are the bridge, captain quarters, medic room, telliportaton room, and cheesy special effects.

[DarkAgent]

I can't stand Star Trek (Except for the original 1960's series that is). but as for the Next Generation and all spinoffs after it - they are like watching the same episode every week.

 

I can't stand how preachy they are. Prime Directive this and Non-interferance directive that - and don't get me started on the "set phasers on STUN thing!

 

Star Trek is definitely not what it once was (the 1960's series was cool). Now its all about beurocracy (spelling?) and politics and negotiation. Let's face it - it's a drama that does nothing more than preach at you about what is right and what is wrong.

 

Star Wars gets the job done and picks no bones about it.

 

There. I said it. Flame away trekkers (set flames on STUN though )

 

DA

[Fyunch Click]

Well, based on the films that have come out I'd have to go with Star Wars. Let's face it: Odd numbered Trek films suck. Of the 4 SW films 1 has been a let down.

 

Based on computer games, (not consoles) that have been released: my verdict wuld again be SW: Xwing, Tie-Fighter, X-wing Vs. Tie-fighter(with expansion), Xwing Alliance, The entire Dark forces series including Jedi Knight2. There have been some lousy games though: Force Commander, the flawed Rebellion. (I don't include Galactic Battlegrounds because it's just an Age of Empires mod.)

The Trek side has been less than lackluster: Any Simon and Schuster produced game, with the possible exception of the Fallen, sucked. Armada 1 stunk, although there is a great mod for it that pits Star Wars vs Star Trek with fleet actions and small units as well. Armada 2 should have been called the Apology. Starfleet Command 1 was a great simulation of Star Fleet Battles, (the miniatures wargame based on Trek) and was a decent game. Bridge Commander is an excellent game, (done by the same company that did Xwing and Tie-Fighter though, so go figure) as was Elite Force. Anyone remember Klingon Honor guard, though(shiver)? Starfleet Ship creator? Starfleet Acadamy?

So from a games standpoint SW win hands down.

 

Both series have a strong following, although Star Trek does have those green chicks in diaphinous clothing. SW had Princess Leia in slave costume though so I guess those two are even.

 

I like both series, they are different animals though and talking about how Kirk would beat up Han Solo or vice-versa, (Free Enterprise anyone?) isn't going to do any good. They're different universes entirely and it's like comparing apples and oranges.

 

If you want to argue about it go to a sci-fi convention.

[mima kake]

I think apples are way better

 

because they have a variaty of collor:p

[*T¥RANITH*]

Originally posted by Rogerwilco2002

Hey *T¥RANITH*

 

I am pretty sure your not an omnipresent all powerful being so you really don't know what they are thinking.

 

Plus I dont see how you are debating the realism in ST and SW when neither is any closer to being real than the other. And I see it as in fact insulting Star Wars when you do so because SW was meant to be unrealist. It is meant to expand the mind into a new universe, and saying that it is real is insulting to its cause.

 

Thats just the way I see it but if you want to watch something sci-fi because it is more 'real' than the competition then go right ahead.

 

First of all, I specifically said at the end of my post

I know this isn't a thread to post about realistic settings between 2 beautifully-made and epic settings. If they weren't, how come they both have so many fans? me included...

IMHO there isn't one or the other which is better, and it all boils down to subjective opinion. Mine is that they both R0x0rZ

 

I tried to include the facts here, if you don't agree don't go flaming me, just tell me

 

1) The Q bit was meant to be a joke, since they are obviously omniscient, omnipotent beings (uh huh . No I have no idea what they are thinking, but what would YOU do if you could do anything?

2)I never was comparing the 2 for greatness. And I never said that I wanted to watch one or the other because of levels of realism.

It was my understanding that the post came onto the topic of either of the two being unrealistic or not. I was trying to clear up any potential ambiguity, so I decided to post not my views, but the solid facts on this. As I said at the end of the post, don't go flaming me just cos u don't agree. It was a statement of the facts for people who were in fact trying to judge the two on realism.

Sorry if it insulted you or SW/ST, but it wasn't intended to.

[Rogerwilco2002]

Originally posted by Kanubis

And all this 'but the 'Q' could just blah blah blah' crap. I mean, all it would take would be for Lucas to be sad enough to read this thread, stroke his greying beard, and put in a new force power (subtly) in Ep3 that counters whatever this 'Q' thing does (I am in complete ignorance of what this/they is/are). Then suddenly, the whole argument changes. I mean, what's the point?

 

It is simply because no force power could ever counter the "Q" because he is an all powerful being that can do ANYTHING he wishes. If he snaps his fingers he can destroy an ENTIRE galaxy. I have never heard of anything even close to that in Star Wars, so I doubt that a force power will even come close to stoping the "Q".

 

How can you make a force power that is so powerful it can destroy a being that is present in all times and all places at once, and can infinitely change the universe to whatever pleases him.

 

Next time do some research on this stuff before you type something up. You can find plenty of information about "Q" everywhere on the net.

 

He has so much power that there is nothing that can beat him.

 

If he were in the SW universe instead of the Trek universe he would BE the force. And he would give a little bit of power to those that he would think would make an interesting fight so that he can entertain himself and watch. Hence forth he would give the power to Good and Evil people. Maybe the "Q" does exsist in the Star Wars universe right now and he is letting the never ending battle between Light and Dark go on so that he can watch for entertainment purposes.

 

Either way you look at it, you can not beat the Q. You can only please or displease him.

[Amorpheus]

"Hey, Star Wars is attacking us!!"

*Q snaps fingers and smirks*

Q: Star What?

 

Jedi vs Borg? Easy - Borg could some day exist. Jedi won't.

 

Comparing ST to SW is humorous at best, keep it up guys. Especially when you go into details like who would wipe out who in combat, I always get a laugh out of those. You just can't compare completely different universes because they're based on different mechanics. How can you decide if Star Wars' carriers and fighters would win against Star Trek's ships? Only by opinion.

 

Me, I like SW more, but ST as well.

[power_ed]

.. I would personally luv to see Cpt. Picard Take on Vader in a hand to hand combat..

 

 

V: "your powers are weak old man"

 

P: "I belive you are experiencing a flux in you quantum matrix"

 

V: "HUH??"

 

P: "..YOU SUCK!"

 

V: "Oh.."

 

P: "Wait.. is that bio-neural circutry??"

 

V: "What..Hey stop that.. just release your anger or something"

 

 

 

 

 

:D

[Jedi_Monk]

Q is basically a 4th dimensional being screwing with the 3rd dimension. He wouldn't be allowed to exist in the SW universe because the Force simple wouldn't let him. The Force has a will of its own. My theory is that the Force may have started out as just a field created by living things, but then as more and more Jedi became one with it, it developed a kind of group consciousness made up of the most brilliant minds in the universe. The Force is the god of SW. Q's a godmode in another dimension but is still just a being. The Force exists in all dimensions, it could take on Q in the 4th and bring him to his knees, end of of story. It wouldn't be about the Jedi vs. Q, it'd be about the entire Force against Q.

[Rogerwilco2002]

In response to why we are arguing about who would win even though they are in totally different universes...well because it is fun to do so.

 

Of course you try to say the force could over come Q, but I don't see how this could happen. You have turned you love for Star Wars into a hopeless battle to over come an infinitely all powerful being in a Spielburg-ish way. Q is never defeated. The force is pathetic next to Q. Even everything the Force is combined together can not stand up to a being that could wipe out the force with a snap.

 

As realized before he can snap his fingers and Star Wars becomes Star What.

 

Just recognize that Q can defeat the Force if he wanted to.

 

I mean really how does ANYTHING stand up to a being so powerful that it IS the universe in every sense possible.

[Evil The Cat]

*T¥RANITH*, anti matter and matter do anilihate each other but not without a massive output of energy. a pound of anti mater and a pound of matter when combined would create around a 43 megaton reaction, its an awsome power source.

The warp thing is just that, the creation of a warp feild creates a pocket of stable space around the ship so that the ships mass is nolonger converted to energy relative to the proximity of C. This is no more possible or impossible than hyperspace. hyper space relys on the hidden dimensions that exist in the super string theroy, the creation of such a conduit would require gravity as strong as a black holes or a magnetic feild in the 10^23 tesla range.

Timetravel is in many ways theroetically possible without the need 2 change anything, even relitivity doesnt forbit it, just makes its implication nearly impossible on any large scale. There are particles that can travel through time.

 

ALOT of the things in startrek are baised on solid physics theory right across the disaplines board. Starwars (if we are just going on the movies) doesnt really have an aspect of realism as it doesnt really give u any detail about anything, u have to go into books and things online written AFTER The movies were made by someone trying to put theory 2 the names of things they use.

This isnt a stab at either, star trek is supposed 2 be more realistic with its senarios refering to current theorys. Starwars is more an action adventure, not really aiming at satisfying any "geeks" desires of "why" and "how".

 

EDIT also the universe only becomes an infinitly dence layer to the object traveling at C thanks to a thing called the lorentz (sp) transform invariant, 2 everyone else the universe is fine and dandy. (but i dont think u meant otherwise, just clearing it up)

[Assault3000]

Just to add a bit. I have seen the borg in action and honestly, I seriously doubt they could defeat Jedi. As for Q, he's just there.