The Patch from Hell (Saber Combat is Dead)

[l-lan_solo]

sorry, i forgot about the age thing.

 

i didn't see anything wrong with who old they looked, i mean you look at the queen she's in her later teens in EP 1, but anakin is just a little kid and then you look at EP 2 and you see anakin in his later teens but the queen is in her 20's, the way you looks doesn't really chang that much from later teens to 20's, and for girls thats go's times two. i mean yeah, she doesn't look that much older but not every one ages the same way and look at the planet she lives on, you can't bring age into SW, that just something you can't do. i mean look at yoda, he's 800 something but if you ask me he doesn't look a day over 80, and don't even say anything about him having the force thats why he looks like that cause we know that, i'm just using him for fun. but like i said age just doesn't work the same way in SW as in this would

[fitzwilliamd]

i mean look at yoda, he's 800 something but if you ask me he doesn't look a day over 80

 

Lol!

[Augmental]

reread my post about assuming..your assuming the age thing....yes girls look different from 14 to 20...so do guys...the age thing was bitterly obvious in the first one not so much in the second but you know it's not right...what i meant by you knew who everyone was and what they did was you knew who luke was you knew who han solo was you knew liela....every movie was not a continumm..necessacity..you could watch one without the other and still be entertained...it wasn't just about luke and he certainitly wasn't the only thing going on...or the only entertaininmg thing going on...no you can not fit all of star wars into one movi...then why do you have filler characters? if there is so much to tell then why does it seem like there just wasting time? i know a man who is a fanboi of the worst kind wookie bedsheets and all and he is trying to like episode 1 and 2 really trying but he can't beacaue the production value just isn't there anymore and i think that deep down you know it's true

[l-lan_solo]

as fare as "knowing" who han(my fave guy in SW, if you can't tell) and leia are you don't know a whole lot about them, you know when you meet han in a new hope all you know is jaba is after him and he need some money, and he doesn't really care anything about anyone but him self. by the end of that movie he ends up being some what of a nice guy. you don't really know anything a about his past, where he came from or how he got to be where he is now. and leia, much of the same with her, all you really know is she's a princess and darth vader is trying to get fide out where the rebels are at, i mean you get lots of little bits of there life in the movie but not a whole lot, same go's for EP 1 and 2.

 

as fare as "fillers" every movie had them and every movies has them. poeple you don't really know about and unless they make a book to tell you about them your never going to know. like good old chewbacca, i mean he had filler writen all over him, and that all he really was if you think about it he was funny and couldn't really talk, he was just there to fly and hit things, and he did a very good job of it.

 

so take the old movies and the 3 people you really got to know anything about are luke, leia, and han, in the new movies it's anakin, the queen, and obi wan, and there even more people you get to know better.

 

and all i can say to every one looking for the old star wars is, your not going to get it. the movies were mad in the 70's and this is 2002, with better filming and every things done on comps. your not going to get that home feeling like you do in a movie from the 70's made by people who really didn't have the money to do it but thay made it work, i sorry, but it's not going to happen. the new star wars was made to tell a story about a longer time ago in a galaxy far far away. it was made just to tell you about the past, befor the empire, and how it got started and how a sweet little kid name anakin became one of the evil most powerful sith of all time

[Augmental]

from the original that were basicly main characters but had no character development..........because even thou we didn't know a thing about boba in every way he had mroe character development then darth maul did on his best scence

[Tybris]

....yes...ok, but about the patch.... It has greatly improved some parts of the game and destroyed others (ohw, so that's why there are so many 1.03 lovers and haters now).

 

For example in the previous version you could often see some 'heavy stance' idiot walkin towards me and killing you while his sword wasn't even touching you. Glad they improved that. (Heavy stance fighting sux most of the time anywayz, only for rookies, you should only use it on strategic moments) And further more the saber combat is a lot quicker while the fights take longer (wasn't the average saber battle about 10 minutes in the movies?) so why is that a bad thing?

 

At the other hand they put blocking so high that there really is no way to quickly kill someone quickly in saber combat (and you miss kills and lose your first place again) and because the sword is so weak the repeater and the flechette now own the game.

 

In the end, the game has changed, but not for the better and not for the worse. At least drain isn't the most important force power anymore, now they should shorten the absorb time a bit and then both sides will be evenly matched.

[DarkDroid]

Okay I'm back after a long hiatus (lots more sleep than late-night playing I regret to inform). But here I am, and I'd like to say I tried to read those 3 pages of replies and counter-replies since my last posting but I eventually glazed it over not letting it all sink in.

 

But I think I got the gist of it. We still have fitzwilliamd keeping this thread very much alive with his colourful and memorable postings. We still have a problem with this patch. Let me be the first to say whether or not Raven is looking to nurture this community or not - there has never been a community in existence where everyone was made perfectly happy, ever. It's the unfortunate way of the world.

 

I finally gave a few hours up to trying out this patch in depth. At first not much of a difference was revealed to me in the general gameplay. I seemed to have trouble healing, which was by design, and I guess it's just as well, I was originally shocked at its strength pre-1.03. Then I gave in to hours of decadent dueling on some random public server. People came and went, I got to guage a plethora of styles, skills, and exploitations as well as learn a thing or two about my personal strengths and weaknesses in style. Overall I did well for a 1.03 newbie, winning the series a number of times (series consisting of 10x1 kill limit victories).

 

Of all the people I obsverved while spectating I was the only one who even thought of using red stance. Only one other person I fought used Yellow. The rest were blue hit-combo junkies. I guess they must have sped up blue stance a bit because I've never seen people go into spinning fits like I saw tonight. Despite this I decided to try and find my own ways around it. At one point I'd counter using yellow stance (against those who used the blue combos only moderately), red stance (against those who used the blue combos sparingly or plain yellow stance), and even blue stance (against those who used the blue combos like they were the regular attack). I came out on top generally, and these duels were using minimal force powers, it was basically straight saber-on-saber action. So there are ways around it, but for the number of blue-stances I saw I have a feeling it might be the new source of in-game spamming. And I used to be a blue stance user myself. Why am I flip-floping? It all depends on who you fight. Don't blame raven for spamming, blame the lamers who are doing all the spamming. It's a game, there are definite moves to be utilized, and under those conditions you will no doubt make use of certain moves more than once.

 

Personally I find the patch to be interesting if it weren't for the blue jab-spin players (keep in mind they can be beaten. The DFA problem being widely beaten is a plus. The blocking could be a bit excessive, but I never really considered it till reading this forum. I managed to hit a guy from below, swinging up at the legs so whoever it was complaining about strange-angle blocks in the last 3 pages of posts I'd like to say there are ways to land your hits. If Raven doesn't make a new patch we'll live with it. Games are games.

 

Now onto fitzwilliamd. I'm not gonna yell at you, or tell you to "put up or shut up" as some people have. Obviously there are deeper issues running through the course of this matter with you that I won't pretend to understand or have solutions to. It seems this game filled an unimagineable void in your life, made things look all the more brighter to you, until that new outlook was jeopardized by the patch. Now you wander aimlessly through the forums looking for people to band with you in this hour of need and inspire action to ba taken to correct what you feel is a terrible folly. For that I empathize with you and I hope somehow you can find peace again in your life. I'm not trying to be a prick here, I mean it. I'll come back and check this thread later this week, hopefully not to load it and find another 4 pages of dialogue to go over!

 

WHEW!

[DarkDroid]

just to follow up on the part about how i countered the different stances, this is the main relationship i think you should all contemplate, because i feel it holds some truth:

 

1)

-as the use of blue attack-combos increases in frequency,

-the need to counter with blue stance (mainly for speedy defending and rapid damage purposes) also increases.

 

2)

-as the frequency of blue attack-combos decrease,

-the freedom to counter with alternate styles (as the speed and rapid damage of the offender becomes less of an issue) increases.

 

3)

-the use of combos in any style as long as it's moderate or below moderate in frequency allows for equal use of any other style without any major issues in balance.

 

Basically if you can't win against a crazy spinning blue-stancer with your yellow or red stance, try beating them at their own game. If they're not crazy with blue then you can do whatever you want without much trouble. If they're using red or yellow you can probably get away with using any of the three styles and not run into trouble, however countering any style with the exact same style seems to work for me most of the time

[Vesentac]

Autoblocking became advent when people whined MP saber combat to be like SP saber combat.

 

So now you can block better and DFA is nerfed which means killing someone is gonna take a lot longer. Something that people dont like. So what do people move? Latch onto the next most damaging move to kill people faster("Da sweeper!!").

 

You cant satisfy them all but at least TEST THE DAMN PATCH before a release to a small EXPERIENCED test group.

[ShogunBlade]

here are my findings about the 1.03 patch (which untill a 1.04 is released i will no longer be playing)

 

#1 if you came out on top playing a bunch of blue "whores" there is no biggie there... use red saber for the most part.. if not then there is always the lunge backstab combo.. people who stick to blue only are skilless period.. they think that the spinning and the lunge will see them through.. think again

 

#2 it isnt so much what they changed.. its what they didnt.. or what they forgot to implement.. obviously your testing wasnt that extensive.. because nothing is more annoying than getting stabbed with the pommel of the saber while the blade is actually behind your opponent.. you still get clocked.. meaning.. you get back stabbed while facing your opponents mug

 

#3 sabers going thru an opponent during that half second, you know when someone dfa's and misses.. and his saber buries itself into the ground.. there is a half second when you cant do jack to the dfa'er.. unfortunately he can just go blue and backstab you.. its very very obvious that your extensive tests were with a bunch of no skill blue whores.. and that you didnt get into any depth with the game..

 

#4 in order for this game to be complete which it is not.. collision mapping must be done.. tweaking of some special moves need done and consequences for failure must be implemented..

 

#5 and saber duels do not last too long if you are facing someone that knows what they are doing.. trust me.. you slip up youll find yerself blue slashed twice then lunged and hehehe finally backstabbed.. yes its a combo.. but you didnt know that did you ya lamer..

 

#6 In short this patch needs work but before you come in here saying "oh i tested the patch and find nothing wrong with it", you need to pass around the crack yer smokin because its better than mine it seems..

 

#7 when in doubt reread #6

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I used to be fairly decent, using only heavy stance since its the only one that I could really use timing to an advantage. Now Im lucky if I get a single kill per game, since spinning in circles is far more effective now.

[Tollazor]

DFA was a prick of a move. That fixed, now Backstabs are stupidly tough.

 

You see people running into a group of fighters backwards wildly swinging his/her saber attempting to pull of a backstab move.

 

I personally find it very stupid that a game about Saber fighting (sword fighting) has its toughest moves to be the one were you show your back to the enemy.

 

You people talk of combos where you do 2 attacks a lunge and a backstab or similar.

It is much simpler to get a quick kill, by FORCE PULL an enemy to your feet so they fall over, if they dont you kick em, As soon as they fall over, you simply turn and do a backstab using medium or heavy stance and Wolla you have yourself a frag.

 

Of course, the other player has 4 options, jump to get up quickly but they usually get hit. They could use protection and take half damage (or whatever) or they could roll out. Or they could attempt to block it (possible). If any of these happen just a quick Force Pull again to knock em over At your feet, and backstab again. Usually the second attemp kills them.

 

After owning servers up with this, I noticed people starting to use Absorb, easy fix, You kick em in the face and knock em over and run up, turn, backstab. Look for anyone using lightning, force pull them and backstab too, just for a quick kill.

 

During Duels. Start your duel then just wait out your opponent, block all his attacks and just wait.. he will eventually get himself into a bad position, when this happens. Step in, turn, backstab, dead. Duel won. If it dosnt kill them it really hurts them. So you can just wait untill they stuff up again, Or since they are at low health they will usually do 1 of 2 things. That is A: Play much more defenesivly, or play much more agressivly. If they go aggresive, that is easy to beat. Step in, get them to start to swing (they will usually adopt red stance when aggresive wanting to get that lucky big hit) step back, saber throw. Repeat as nessesary. If they go defensive, kick em in the face to death, or back them into a wall and quickly perform a backstab attack.

 

 

Now as you can see the feature move here is BACKSTAB. There is no reason not use backstab as your primary attack other then ettiqet (spelling?). Sure you might get hit every now and then, but usually the backstab is the best attack...

In FFA's Or anything with force pull enabled. Backstab is the only choice for high fraging ability. As you run to a bunch of fighters, force pull (your bound to get one fall over) then step in, backstab. Will usually kill the person who fell over and other randoms that try and kill him too...

 

Just to blow my whisle and to let you know I'm not just Bull****, My team won a $400AU Team FFA JK2 Comp on the weekend undefeated. We mainly used the Force Pull/backstab combo.. as did almost every other competer that knew how to do it did, except they used force push, the fatal mistake in their stratagy.

 

My point about this post is that Special moves are wayyyyyy to powerful and too easy to pull off. (not the medium jump attack that is next to useless). Last patch it was the DFA, now it is the Backstab. I belive that Special moves should be taken out all together. With more skill being placed into blocking (less autoblock, more positioning your saber to block) and possibly counter hits, that is, Decent Block + Attack counters their saber and then does a quick slice.

 

The Force Pull/Backstab combo is enough to top score a Gun server as well, even with good gun whores playing.

[Augmental]

relying on one move in any comp is cheap and i'm sure you claimed ownage after that as well...which is sad...yes the pull back sweep combo happens...yes it's a way to win...no it's not a fun way to win...

[GrEEk_OuTcAsT]

OK guys I'm here to express my opinion as an only 1.03 user. When I got the game I instantly installed 1.03 patch just to be bug free and to play multiplayer with probs (find servers and such). I HAVE NEVER touched a pre-1.03 version of the game but I see many complains. However as I have never touched the old Lightsaber system I will express my opinion of the light saber style as it is now without knowing the old system.

 

First of all when I FIRST played multiplayer I was really impressed. The fights looked good and as a newbie I could get some kills feeling that I am a good player. However after playing a lot I am generaly DISAPPOINTED and BORED even if I don't compare it with something. I am just disappointed. To start with I see it like the TOP move is the Backstabs but with a stupid unrealistc way. In Yes-Force games as I see it there is no reason to do normal combat with your LightSaber. Even with the Red Style you do so minor damage that can be taken back either with Healing or Drain easily. For what I see a Force Duel game almost never ends with Normal combat but only with a Finishing Special Move and most times it is Backstab which is pretty easy to execute and it is a 90% kill when done in right way after you win a Saber Lock or generally when the enemy has fallen down. I have also found that it is impossible to prevent your death when the enemy uses Pull + Backstab. It is so easy to be done and almost impossible to defend it. Just Pull an enemy when he is close to you until he falls down. And while he is falled down and close to you just have him on your back and backstab him.

 

The more I play the game the more it's weakness is revealed and I play it for 1 week now and Im boring to do the same thing because I KNOW that this I do is the best way to kill someone. There are matches that I win 20-0 with not that rookies but I still not have fun because I do the exact same thing. Now in case there are no forces and weapons the things are getting worse. Many times I try to calculate my attacks to damage the enemy as much as possible but this is proved to be useless. I have seen Blue Style Rookie Users just having pressed the attack button and moving without thinking upon you and many times they win. They have no skill just they get happy pressing randomly some keys but because the game is almost random in Normal non-trick Saber combat they have many chances.

 

In my opinion a game is good when even in "Hardcore" Playing Mode it keeps the original gameplay. JediOutcast seems f**ked up to me and I have already got bored of it. Too much impression in the beginning too much disappointment later. However I have never tested the 1.02 Version with the different Sabre Combat that as I hear didn't had this problems.

 

Maybe it is me and not the gameplay but Jedi Outcast seems extremely Boring in multiplayer currently. Sometime I will try to play an older version to see the old Saber System but I just know that Im not gonna find many servers with the old version and I find it stupid to return to old things in a game.

 

I have the game 1 week and sth but by I played it extremely and I think I have got through the gameplay and that is my opinion. Saber Gameplay is dead to me and JK2 Multiplayer seems also when all battles are backstabs and some of the other tricks some times.

[Windu]

I must agree with this post. This game was not improved with the patch. I try to find ways to exploit certain moves in games and I have found out too many people rely on the backslash technique, and I have made a script which is almost full proof using the same backslash technique. I also hate the fact that you can force throw your saber in "no force battles", it has turned it into a throwing contest.

 

This patch was made with beginners in mind. I have both versions of the game installed and a friend of mine, who has never played the game, got online and played it fairly well on v1.03, but when he tried v1.02 he got his ass kicked real bad.

 

Lets face it folks, this patch was a huge mistake, and they need to do some real beta testing before releasing the next one.

[Tollazor]

No I didnt procliam ownage, That is done through Duel Victories, of which I rarly lost. There are times when I play, trying not to use the backstab technique I find these battles to be long and tedious with me usually do the diagonal down left to right attack followed by a hozintal right to left attack, then if I havnt hit by then a hoizontal left to right, which usually swings around into their back..

 

During these fights there is plenty of opertunity to do the backstab move.

Another bug when in a force lock, you can have a key bound to force push and use that to give yourself a force lock advantage WHILE IN NON FORCE DUELS.

 

In FFA servers, there is no point in using saber styles to kill your enemies as it isnt fast enough, so you just have to use the Pull/Backstab move.

 

My opinion is that this Companies use Newbie Beta Testers. The kind of people that dont think of finding the best/quickest ways to kill an opponent. I'm sure that if a group of Pro-Gamers were to beta test this patch before it was released then these exploits would have been seen within the first day of beta testing. They could have been fixed.

As with the blocking. I belive it is wayy to n00biefied, that is you can block just about anything if it is in front of you. There is little to no skill in blocking.

Blocking should only occure if your saber (NOT crosshair) is close to a correct angle to block the other persons attack. That is, if the enemy saber comes down from above the head, it should be blocked by rising your saber to meet theres. If your saber is in a verticle position how could that block an overhead attack? The only way to block like that would involve knocking their saber aside as it comes down, this results in them having their saber pushed to the side and yours in a cutting position. Counter, Hit. SADLY this dosnt seem to be the case. SADLY it seems that blocking consists of putting your crosshair on the enemy player... With no evidence of counters. The only one I've seen is when BOTH players have their sabers bashed aside with seemingly random triggers.

 

O and Script kiddies are lame, if you need to use a script to do a set of moves then you arnt good enough at that move.. (Like Jump Crouch scripts :/

[BigMexican]

ehehe Tollz, if my entire team didnt leave, forcing me to find fill-ins, we woulda won that comp

 

yes, i was also in that comp, and watching the demo that the admin took, you could see that LS (tollz' clan) wasnt just relying on the backstab move. everyone used it (except my 3 fillins who didnt know how hehe), but tollz' kicking and medium combos also played a large part in their victory.

 

i had the pleasure of playing Tollz in a public server a few times in between games during the competition, and he certainly wasnt the backstab whore i've become.

 

although - i am enjoying no force matches a lot more now, pulling off a successful backstab has gone from a certain thing to something that requires precision and skill, since you cant push/pull/kick your opponent over.